MMO is no joke.

[ahoier]

JavierG: I'd take the OCI to at least 3k to get the real benefit. MMO is a slow cleaner, it can take a bit for it to do it's job...

Actually, in my experience/trial with MMO in the crankcase, I experienced a bit of "oil burn off" - one 3k mile interval of MMO I topped off 1 1/2 quarts of oil in fact.....that was the FIRST run.

No drips of oil on the drive way or my parking spot at work.....curious still, I took the car to my mechanic, and he didn't notice anything out of the ordinary on the under-carriage - i.e.: no leaks of any sort....clean as the day he did the oil change; in fact he even let me check out the under carriage in his "basement"/lower bay area...

Chalked it up to oil burn off.....so anyways, I topped it off accordingly. that first OCI I actually stretched it to 4k. The next OCI, used the same oil, same filter, added the same dose of MMO (1 pint....to account for a little less than 20% of the oil capacity...depending on what source I check lol...) - ran that OCI for only 3k, and only needed 0.5 qt of top off.....

Now this is a low mileage 88 Dodge Aries.....it only had 29k on the clock when I got it, and have done 3-4 MMO doses in the oil since I got it. This past OCI I did not add the MMO; guess what? No top offs yet, and I'm going on the last thousand miles of the "3k" OCI.....

I've yet to take a look under the valve cover, but I do know that first drain and refill (that had unknown oil, for an unknown amount of time, sitting in the crank case + 1 pint of MMO I added after I bought the car, before I cranked it over even) I drove the car a good thousand miles before dumping the oil, "just for kicks" - and boy did that oil come out dark....it wasn't a thick syrup or anything, it was just extremely dark. Car still had a "Mopar Next Oil Service" sticker in the window, if I recall, it was marked ~31k or something.....so the oil wasn't "due" per the mileage, but was in the crankcase for probably over 2 years....

To this day, the car just purrs along

I get a lot of looks on the street lol. Only thing I've done to it is oil changes, fuel filter, PCV vale replacement, and air filter.....




Something I have noticed though, if you add too much MMO to the gas, you will notice a decrease in performance....at least that was my experience in my car. I now keep it to about 3 oz. per 10 gallons....keep it stored in an old Star-tron bottle for ease of measurement

I wish I could find the gallons reasonably here....at $20/gallon, it's cheaper for me to just buy 4 quarts at WM at $3.87....the only WM near me that sells it, is about an hour away; not worth that trip to St. Cloud LOL....I may try asking at my local WM though to see if they could "special order" it for me though, and have the gallons shipped to my local store; with their new "Site to Store" and "pick up today" services; they just might...but unsure. As of yet, the MMO is still not "for sale" online at walmart.com - BUT, you can do a merchandise locator to see what stores in your area carry it

 

[HTSS_TR]

MMO works in E430 crank case, the engine seems to idle quieter and throttle respond seems to be quicker at most RPM's and slightly better MPG.

I then tried 3-4oz per 10 gallons in gas tank, immediate result was very disappointed. The engine ran rough for the entire tank, MPG dropped by more than 5-6%. The engine went back to normal with new full tank of gas, I never tried MMO in gas tank again.

Many of you have good experience with MMO in gas tank, after reading so many positive results I tried it and my car did the opposite.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: ahoier
JavierG: I'd take the OCI to at least 3k to get the real benefit. MMO is a slow cleaner, it can take a bit for it to do it's job...

Actually, in my experience/trial with MMO in the crankcase, I experienced a bit of "oil burn off" - one 3k mile interval of MMO I topped off 1 1/2 quarts of oil in fact.....that was the FIRST run.

No drips of oil on the drive way or my parking spot at work.....curious still, I took the car to my mechanic, and he didn't notice anything out of the ordinary on the under-carriage - i.e.: no leaks of any sort....clean as the day he did the oil change; in fact he even let me check out the under carriage in his "basement"/lower bay area...

Chalked it up to oil burn off.....so anyways, I topped it off accordingly. that first OCI I actually stretched it to 4k. The next OCI, used the same oil, same filter, added the same dose of MMO (1 pint....to account for a little less than 20% of the oil capacity...depending on what source I check lol...) - ran that OCI for only 3k, and only needed 0.5 qt of top off.....

Now this is a low mileage 88 Dodge Aries.....it only had 29k on the clock when I got it, and have done 3-4 MMO doses in the oil since I got it. This past OCI I did not add the MMO; guess what? No top offs yet, and I'm going on the last thousand miles of the "3k" OCI.....

I've yet to take a look under the valve cover, but I do know that first drain and refill (that had unknown oil, for an unknown amount of time, sitting in the crank case + 1 pint of MMO I added after I bought the car, before I cranked it over even) I drove the car a good thousand miles before dumping the oil, "just for kicks" - and boy did that oil come out dark....it wasn't a thick syrup or anything, it was just extremely dark. Car still had a "Mopar Next Oil Service" sticker in the window, if I recall, it was marked ~31k or something.....so the oil wasn't "due" per the mileage, but was in the crankcase for probably over 2 years....

To this day, the car just purrs along

I get a lot of looks on the street lol. Only thing I've done to it is oil changes, fuel filter, PCV vale replacement, and air filter.....




Something I have noticed though, if you add too much MMO to the gas, you will notice a decrease in performance....at least that was my experience in my car. I now keep it to about 3 oz. per 10 gallons....keep it stored in an old Star-tron bottle for ease of measurement

I wish I could find the gallons reasonably here....at $20/gallon, it's cheaper for me to just buy 4 quarts at WM at $3.87....the only WM near me that sells it, is about an hour away; not worth that trip to St. Cloud LOL....I may try asking at my local WM though to see if they could "special order" it for me though, and have the gallons shipped to my local store; with their new "Site to Store" and "pick up today" services; they just might...but unsure. As of yet, the MMO is still not "for sale" online at walmart.com - BUT, you can do a merchandise locator to see what stores in your area carry it

Interesting report. I've found when adding MMO to the crankcase, you need to keep an eye on the oil level, some engines do burn it off. I also prefer using MMO during the winter time. I found it burns off less in the winter, and aids with cold starts. I've used it in engines that burnt it off, and I've used it in engines that didn't. The engines the did burn it off, burnt off less during the cold winter months. I do not use it in the oil at every OCI, I know people who do and had fantastic results. I never felt the need for adding to the oil every OCI. A good oil should keep an engine clean, however I use it in the oil during winter once in a while to make sure things stay clean. My vehicles see severe service use, and IMO that contributes to varnish, and possibly sludge, although I do reasonable OCI [which is why I used the word possibly]. MMO is cheap insurance against varnish and sludge.

I'm not going to beat the mpg dead horse. I know enough people who keep very accurate records that have seem gains with it. Older engines seem to benefit the most. I use it for in every tank of gas for the UCL benefit.

 

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Here is the thing. Can we at least all agree that in the suggested dosage concentration of either TC-W3 or MMO, there is no harm done? If you believe that, then it is matter of just experimenting in your particular vehicle and deciding whether it is for you or not.

Personally, both TC-W3 and MMO has worked for me BUT not always. Sometimes, I can feel the improvement and sometimes I don't.

- Vikas


That pretty much sums up how I feel.



Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
Yes, knee jerk reactions are an overreaction, but IMO it can be just as much of an 'overreaction' to be so technical to give no credence to another users experience by disputing the most minute of angles and details.

How is it "minute" to point out that someone hasn't done the minimum necessary to make a claim believable?


I'm not mincing words here. I wasn't alleging what you or anyone else that simply questions calculations and variables etc, as being too technical.

If something isn't legit, it will be revealed in time, if it's money wasted but no harm done? That's up for debate and varies for each person and application with everything possible taken into account. Unfortunately, not many of us are paid to research this, so with the busy lives we have (which includes the time we spend here on BITOG

), it's hard to get hard data on anything.

On the other hand, without even knowing the content of a product like Amsoil Pi or Red Line SI-1(nor seeing the before and after pics of the fuel system or combustion chamber), I can tell from how clean the oil was(though at the point of turning darker) prior to using either of those in a tank(like recently with the SI-1), and afterward seeing how actually dirty the oil had become post tank of cleaning(and knowing this particular, seeing as its my DD)...I give the credit to the fuel system cleaner and know those products definitely can clean. It was obvious with the microscopic crud that had suddenly appeared.

Now, was I smart to do that with 7,500 miles to go on my planned OCI?

 

[steve20]

"""To this day, the car just purrs along I get a lot of looks on the street"""

I'm sure you do...what color is it?

 

[d00df00d]

As promised: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2348111#Post2348111

 

[ahoier]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
I then tried 3-4oz per 10 gallons in gas tank, immediate result was very disappointed. The engine ran rough for the entire tank, MPG dropped by more than 5-6%. The engine went back to normal with new full tank of gas, I never tried MMO in gas tank again.
Do/did you have any Check Engine Light of any sort? I noticed when my car had the CEL for EGR/MAP sensor due to the dry rotted and cracked vacuum lines, I got really [censored] MPG, and yes, the MMO seemed to "bog down".....Likely something related to the extra "air" that was getting into the engine via the broken vacuum lines and such

That being said, I'd try 2-3 oz. next time per 10 gallons.

After I got the vacuum lines fixed up, I ran Chevron Techron through the tank as an initial "spike"/shock clean, and have ran MMO ever since, usually 2-3 oz. per 10 gallons, as I've found in my car it actually works out better to go less on the MMO.


This past tank/fill I took the car to 275 miles, and that did include various "car loop idling" waiting for kids to get done with school

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Funny how there are other threads about other products increasing mpg, yet they don't get the same criticism as MMO does when increases in mpg are claimed. Is it because MMO is under $5 a qt? After all how can something that cheap do anything? Maybe if it cost more people would view it differently.

My reasons for using it were never for mpg gains.


Can you point out those other threads and other products? Because every time I read about someone making claims about mpg improvement, I (and a few others) are pretty quick to point out the serious limitations in tracking fuel economy.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Funny how there are other threads about other products increasing mpg, yet they don't get the same criticism as MMO does when increases in mpg are claimed. Is it because MMO is under $5 a qt? After all how can something that cheap do anything? Maybe if it cost more people would view it differently.

My reasons for using it were never for mpg gains.


Can you point out those other threads and other products? Because every time I read about someone making claims about mpg improvement, I (and a few others) are pretty quick to point out the serious limitations in tracking fuel economy.


There are people making those claims in this thread, and others here on Bitog. I don't want to break board rules so I won't post a link. If you like go to the LS1.com forum there is close to 1000 posts in thread about using TCW3 as a UCL in gas engines. Just make sure you have plenty of time

 

[d00df00d]

Okay, but... You know we're not on LS1.com, right?

 

[manofscience]

When I see people say MPG it makes me want to rip my hair out. MPG means nothing. I can increase my MPG by running a red light, but you don't see me selling people on that idea. I want to look at power output per volume of fuel.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Okay, but... You know we're not on LS1.com, right?


There are many people there not connected with Bitog, I thought it would be interesting for some members. But why not search here then? You know the drill. Didn't the OP in this thread claim better mpg? That's a start. Then look at Itslimjim, C3po, and a host of others, that should get you started.

 

[d00df00d]

Oh, I'm aware of the existence of testimonials.

JOD was responding to your assertion that MMO seems to get picked on whereas other products seem to get a pass. He asked if you could point him to threads for other products where similar claims are made but not challenged. I thought that's what you were doing when you referred to LS1.com.

 

[mechtech2]

A 3 MPG increase is a lot.
We should not expect that much - maybe a 5th of that if anything.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
A 3 MPG increase is a lot.

Not if it normally varies that much or more, which has not been ruled out.

Moreover, even if the gain is not due to chance, other possible causes have to be ruled out.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Oh, I'm aware of the existence of testimonials.

JOD was responding to your assertion that MMO seems to get picked on whereas other products seem to get a pass. He asked if you could point him to threads for other products where similar claims are made but not challenged. I thought that's what you were doing when you referred to LS1.com.


Maybe JOD didn't see this thread. BTW I have no reason to doubt Tommy.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2330444&page=2

Just wondering, if a guy tweaks timing on a car, changes oil viscosity, or changes the cold air intake, or adds another 5 psi to his tires, or throws in a set of plugs, and gets better mpg, is he subject to the same doubts? I guess other than shutting down an engine when coasting down hill, or doing some other form of hypermile technique, or changing driving habits there is nothing that can be done to improve mpg that won't be subjected to an attack? In fact there are people who will attack what I just mentioned too. I guess the bottom line here is drive your vehicle there is nothing you can do to improve mpg that won't be challenged.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Just wondering, if a guy tweaks timing on a car, changes oil viscosity, or changes the cold air intake, or adds another 5 psi to his tires, or throws in a set of plugs, and gets better mpg, is he subject to the same doubts?

I'm going to rephrase that question a bit: If a guy says he did this or that, and then claims he got better MPG, is he subject to the same doubts? The answer to that question is yes.

If he can show that he conducted his experiment in such a way as to rule out chance, flukes, bias effects, and so on, then the doubt should be diminished accordingly.


Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I guess the bottom line here is drive your vehicle there is nothing you can do to improve mpg that won't be challenged.

I would rephrase this as well, and in fact take it even further: there is no claim of any kind that shouldn't be challenged. Do you disagree?

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: demarpaint

I guess the bottom line here is drive your vehicle there is nothing you can do to improve mpg that won't be challenged.

I would rephrase this as well, and in fact take it even further: there is no claim of any kind that shouldn't be challenged. Do you disagree?


Depends, from a salesman, you bet. From all the people posting positively here and on other sites I look deeper. Keep one thing in mind, and I've mentioned this before. I no longer log mpg. MMO has done so many other things for me over the years that can be seen, and heard, I'm sold. Not only from me but from many others I've helped with car problems over the years. For those who like science, the UOA reports look good too. A little hit on TBN to clean up an engine, or free a sticking lifter, and good wear #'s what's not to like?

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Depends, from a salesman, you bet. From all the people posting positively here and on other sites I look deeper.

What do you mean by "look deeper," and how do you think that's different from challenging a claim by asking for evidence?


Originally Posted By: demarpaint
For those who like science, the UOA reports look good too.

What does the word "science" mean to you?


Originally Posted By: demarpaint
A little hit on TBN to clean up an engine, or free a sticking lifter, and good wear #'s what's not to like?

Why do you keep trying to convince me that MMO works? I'm not disputing that. I'm pointing out that there was not enough evidence to back up the specific claim that was made in the OP. That's it.

Maybe MMO does reliably increase MPG. Maybe it really is as good as everyone says it is. I have no problem with that idea. It wouldn't change the fact that this claim hasn't been sufficiently substantiated.

 

[demarpaint]

I see we are getting nowhere, and will continue to get nowhere. Just remember results can be bought, and tests skewed. You haven't substantiated that MMO didn't give the results the members here or anywhere else claimed to get either. All you did was cast doubt, and that's really quite easy.