Mills Fleet Farm firearms policy

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2


While I'm not fundamentally a fan of the nj gun restrictions, I've never felt the need to carry for my safety, living both in the northern more urban areas and the southern more rural areas.

Besides college, I've never lived more than 8 miles outside the population center of a top five US city, and more than half my life, less than five from the #1, NYC.

Stinks that where you live, the people are of such horrid character and makeup that you have to run scared anywhere you go.
How does being a little more prepared equate to running scared? I carry basic tools and a spare tube when on long bike rides. Am I riding scared? If having a cell phone to call the police who are at least several minutes away for defense works for you, great. I'm not lobbying for a law to help you survive random criminal activity so everything is fine. You just don't worry about restricting me.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: mattwithcats
We just need to let technology catch up, and title all guns, with a record kept of hammer and bullet marks.

This would need to be done only once in a guns life, so long as no changes are made to the gun, and would take 10 minutes.

Police tech shoots two rounds with the gun, usually with under powered rounds, then the shell casing and bullets are sent to the state lab for computer entry.

Use an un-title gun in a crime, or get caught with one, would be a crime.
Bullets and shell casings used in crimes would usually be easy to identify which weapon they came from.

Shotgun ammo would have a chemical ID (fingerprint) added to the powder, unique to each batch, that would allow for identification of purchaser...
So how often do I have to come in to have my guns reevaluated? You realize wear changes the patterns. And someone looking to get around the system would need a piece of sandpaper. Sandpaper need to be registered? Spare barrels need to be registered? Of course we'll have to ban reloading. Cases fired several times would be difficult to track. While we are at it we should ban meth and heroin.

 

[bubbatime]

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
I'm sure the first time they get robbed, that policy will change.,,


You silly rabbit. Don't you know that guns cause crime? More guns= more crime, right? Check your facts.

Licensed concealed carry lowers crime.

 

[bubbatime]

Originally Posted By: mattwithcats
We just need to let technology catch up, and title all guns, with a record kept of hammer and bullet marks.

This would need to be done only once in a guns life, so long as no changes are made to the gun, and would take 10 minutes.

Police tech shoots two rounds with the gun, usually with under powered rounds, then the shell casing and bullets are sent to the state lab for computer entry.

Use an un-title gun in a crime, or get caught with one, would be a crime.
Bullets and shell casings used in crimes would usually be easy to identify which weapon they came from.

Shotgun ammo would have a chemical ID (fingerprint) added to the powder, unique to each batch, that would allow for identification of purchaser...


Straight from the Dianne Feinstein school of gun control. You might want to get educated a little bit before you spout nonsense. You make yourself look foolish to the others that have more knowledge of the topic at hand than you do.

 

[bubbatime]

Originally Posted By: mattwithcats
We just need to let technology catch up, and title all guns, with a record kept of hammer and bullet marks.

This would need to be done only once in a guns life, so long as no changes are made to the gun, and would take 10 minutes.


"Title" all guns huh? Apparently you are not aware that the ENTIRE purpose of the 2nd amendment is use those firearms effectively against a tyrannical government that no longer governs the people, by the people, for the people.

First step of gun control is registration. 2nd step is confiscation. Ask the Jews under Hitler, the Chinese under Mao, the Russians under Stalin, the Cambodians under Pol Pot about gun registration. Ask them how that worked out for them. And those that think that could never happen in America? Ask a Jew in 1930 Germany if he though his own government would plan to exterminate his entire race in less than 10 years and they would think you are talking crazy talk.

If WW3 kicks off in 20 years, and the US somehow loses and surrenders, you will wish that you had "unregistered" guns at home to protect yourself from rogue invading troops.

 

[jcwit]

Originally Posted By: mattwithcats
We just need to let technology catch up, and title all guns, with a record kept of hammer and bullet marks.

This would need to be done only once in a guns life, so long as no changes are made to the gun, and would take 10 minutes.

Police tech shoots two rounds with the gun, usually with under powered rounds, then the shell casing and bullets are sent to the state lab for computer entry.

Use an un-title gun in a crime, or get caught with one, would be a crime.
Bullets and shell casings used in crimes would usually be easy to identify which weapon they came from.

Shotgun ammo would have a chemical ID (fingerprint) added to the powder, unique to each batch, that would allow for identification of purchaser...


You actually believe this gibberish.

I feel sorry for you and your wish to give up freedom.

Gave me another reason to write another check to the NRA!

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: c502cid
JHZR2, it stinks you have to get in your usual superior than thou comment that you seem to always have handy. You dont understand a lot of things, and obviously, why people carry is one of them.

Thanks to the OP for the information!


Wow, glad a bunch of other folks actually could understand what I was getting at, too bad you weren't able.

I don't have to understand why people carry. It's a very personal thing, and as I mentioned, I'm no fan of the level of restriction on the nj laws. But at the same time, despite living in far more populated areas, I've not felt the need to fear to the point of being to be constantly armed. And yes, it's fear. Preparedness is a response to a fear or concern over something happening, to the point that you believe the probability is such that the preparedness is justified. And before anyone else gets their panties in a knot, see above, it's a personal thing. And that means that my personal view is just as valid as anyone elses'.

It's a personal thing, and what is being practical and a realist to one may be different to another. Some may just be prone to living in much greater levels of fear, grounded or not. Amazing though how many people lived back in days with fewer guns and more violent crime. Now we have been on a decades long roll of violent crime dropping in all but the worst inner cities (pull inner city and suicides out and the rates for most everything are practically nil), and practicality is dictating the need to be constantly armed is increasing? Even in places with low population density and thus a lower net crime rate?

Ok if you say so.


I applaud the store for allowing people exercising their right to continue to do so, and I think the population is safer when folks hold on to their guns rather than leave them in a car or other easily stolen location. But my personal read is that people are inherently irresponsible, irrational, and can be quite unstable at a whim, so there is also some intrinsic fear that should exist in anyone if the opportunity exists for most anyone, with minimal background evaluation can carry anywhere...

And again, I'm glad too that local public safety is such that I've never felt the need. As a gun owner and one who actively takes part in protection of my rights (not just griping on web forums or cutting the NRA a check like I suspect many on here do), if I felt the need, I'd pursue. Certainly I'm not opposed to having an armed home, but there are also benefits to living in places where society is such that one can feel secure and safe in their neighborhoods and surroundings.

 

[Robenstein]

As someone who grew up in small town Iowa....who experienced being a victim of a violent mugging in that small town, I quickly learned that in that situation you are left to fend for yourself. I became very pro personal protection. I was beaten so by multiple offenders with baseball bats that even 17 years later I still have a slight limp and pain everyday.

Crime is random...criminals move around. Even low crime areas are just that....low crime. Crime happens, occasionally it will be violent(if not lethal), and it may happen to you. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Take an anti carry type, have him violently beaten half to death for 40 bucks in his wallet, and see how he feels about packing heat then.

 

[hatt]

Quote:
But at the same time, despite living in far more populated areas, I've not felt the need to fear to the point of being to be constantly armed. And yes, it's fear. Preparedness is a response to a fear or concern over something happening, to the point that you believe the probability is such that the preparedness is justified.
So what has you so scared that you prepare? Robbing, beating, murders, etc happen every single day in any decent sized community. My lights go out maybe once every couple years for an hour. Do you think I should buy a generator or a gun?

 

[bubbatime]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I don't have to understand why people carry. It's a very personal thing, and as I mentioned, I'm no fan of the level of restriction on the nj laws. But at the same time, despite living in far more populated areas, I've not felt the need to fear to the point of being to be constantly armed. And yes, it's fear. Preparedness is a response to a fear or concern over something happening, to the point that you believe the probability is such that the preparedness is justified.


I carry a pocket knife (a tool) because I need to cut things/open boxes several times every week. I carry a flash light on my key chain (a tool) because it is dark 10-12 hours a day and I find myself needing some illumination during the darkness. I carry a firearm (a tool) everyday I leave the house, because I know that violent criminals wish to rob/carjack/murder me, because that is what violent criminals do. I have never been carjacked/murdered/raped, but I know that bad things happen to good people millions of times every year in the USA. I am prepared to cut things with my pocket knife (a tool) and I am also prepared to defend myself from a criminal with my firearm (a tool). There is no fear. In fact, I would say because of the firearm, I live pretty much without fear. I control my destiny (as it should be)

Just because you don't "currently" understand why people carry, doesn't mean that cant all change next week. Placing your head in the sand doesn't make the problem(s) go away.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: bubbatime


Just because you don't "currently" understand why people carry, doesn't mean that cant all change next week. Placing your head in the sand doesn't make the problem(s) go away.


That's the issue here. Anyone who doesn't insist to carry is placing their head in the sand? Really? So your "know better than the next guy" rhetoric does anything useful for the discussion? Nope.

Sorry, we don't need to deal with politically charged numbermongering, simple looks around tells you that most of the world is unarmed and dies of a reason other than violent crime. 450 violent crimes occur per 100000 people in the USA all inclusive. Most of them occur in very specific circumstances such as inner cities, low income, amongst people of color, and specifically males. All well known. Avoid drugs and questionable situations, and the risk for Joe Suburbia is much lower. Blacks have double the rate, and people under age 24 account for the overwhelming majority of the victims (easily 75%).

So, Joe suburbia making over $75k/yr has a much lower chance. If you look at the numbers in the safer areas, it's more like 10-15 in 75000 people, which would be like 0.02% risk per year. Over an 85 year lifespan, that's like 1.7% chance of being a victim of any violent crime! not only deadly ones... That's about on par with lifetime risk of dying in an automobile accident.

Yet we drive. And we drive faster than the limit, and out in snow and in the rain and down dark two lane highways after midnight on New Years and St. Patricks's day. Somehow we put our head in the sand at those risks, and go out and drive and just do it. Yet someone who is comfortable at similar odds that include non-death violent crime (note the car example was death only, odds go WAY up when you include any injury) in my neighborhood is somehow putting a head in the sand? All I can do is chuckle.

I don't think that all the folks permitted to carry have the responsibility, intelligence or skill to do so, and this is manifested by how many people are accidentally shot and how many guns are stolen per year from law abiding folks. But I do think the right should be offered on a national level and not infringed by anyone. That said, having a calculated basis of risk based upon facts and realities so I don't have to fear the boogeyman is actually quite the opposite from putting my head in the sand. And again, I'm sorry if you're at that much more of a risk than I am, and chose to live in a place where crime is high and response is poor. I live in the opposite, and am happy to do so. So again, it's a personal decision. I don't need to know why you care to carry, but to the contrary, you don't end to belittle my fact-based decision just because you have a basis to live in fear.

I do desire to have the ability to carry (even if I choose to no exercise it, which I would not typically), and unlike many who just spout their mouths off on interweb forums, I put resources and sweat behind making it so. So I dont need to hear assumptions or comments from others regarding my well-reasoned and fact-based decisions.

 

[spasm3]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2


I do desire to have the ability to carry (even if I choose to no exercise it, which I would not typically),


Thats a better statement. I think some took your earlier posts as if they had unreasonable fears if they chose to carry. I don't carry out of fear. I carry because i feel i have the resources and ability to engage an individual who is bent on doing myself, my family and the public harm. If i have the ability and the will. I would feel quilty if i had the ability to reduce the severity of a madman on a shooting spree and i did not take the time to practice or carry.

 

[2cool]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: redbone3
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
I'm sure the first time they get robbed, that policy will change.,,

A criminal with no licence to carry would certainly ignore a sign that prohibited concealed carry. So, how would a licenced carry person increase the chance of robbery? And how are those restrictive NJ gun laws working out for you?


While I'm not fundamentally a fan of the nj gun restrictions, I've never felt the need to carry for my safety, living both in the northern more urban areas and the southern more rural areas.
Besides college, I've never lived more than 8 miles outside the population center of a top five US city, and more than half my life, less than five from the #1, NYC.

Stinks that where you live, the people are of such horrid character and makeup that you have to run scared anywhere you go.


It's not a question of "running scared" from my POV. It is true that the crime RATE is falling in most parts of the country. So one's chances of being a victim are lower. The depressing trend I've noticed is the increased level of violence during those crimes. In the "old days" it was understood that if you gave the criminal your wallet/purse without resistance, you'd be left alive and unhurt. No more, it seems. Many more criminals will now kill you before you can surrender to their demands. I am no longer able to outrun a 20ish Y.O. criminal, and as much as I might wish to think so: I'm no longer as much a physical threat as I once was. So, for me, a gun means the ability to end the fight ASAP with me hopefully alive to tell the tale.
Besides, as Heinlein pointed out, "An armed society is a polite society".

 

[DuckRyder]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: bubbatime


Just because you don't "currently" understand why people carry, doesn't mean that cant all change next week. Placing your head in the sand doesn't make the problem(s) go away.


That's the issue here. Anyone who doesn't insist to carry is placing their head in the sand? Really? So your "know better than the next guy" rhetoric does anything useful for the discussion? Nope.

...


Yet if we carry we are surrounded by people of "horrid character" and "running scared"...

Interesting...

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Originally Posted By: JHZR2

That's the issue here. Anyone who doesn't insist to carry is placing their head in the sand? Really? So your "know better than the next guy" rhetoric does anything useful for the discussion? Nope.

...


Yet if we carry we are surrounded by people of "horrid character" and "running scared"...

Interesting...


Why are YOU trying to pick a fight with ME? I gave my rationale why based upon risk, I don't have a need to carry. I also clearly stated that it was a personal decision.

So why exactly do you need to carry if there aren't people of horrid character around? If everyone is a choir boy and its a low/no crime society, why? Bears? To get your cowboy on?

Come on. Its very simple. If you perceive a risk, real or imagined, that there are enough lowlifes (people of horrid character) willing to do you harm (that's not scary????!?) then you may need to carry. But some of us live in very safe places where the lifetime risk of any violent crime, deadly or not, is less than the lifetime risk of dying (forget just getting injured) in a car accident. A little logic here please. I AM glad that I live in a safe area where I don't have sufficient fear to justify a need to carry at all. That's really not difficult to comprehend.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: bubbatime

If WW3 kicks off in 20 years, and the US somehow loses and surrenders, you will wish that you had "unregistered" guns at home to protect yourself from rogue invading troops.


This is an interesting comment and why I do wish that a regulation like I understand is used in Switzerland would be applied here. Have training, require security, mandate ownership, yet demand responsibility.

Sure, maybe it wouldn't be an uber-concealable weapon, but for any majority age male or adult to have a military type rifle and sidearm would be a decent thing. Of course, then we would have to deal with our crazy folks, but since healthcare is such a problem here, well, one thing just causes gridlock for the next.

 

[Robenstein]

No one should be chastised for not carrying, but nor should anyone who chooses to not exercise that right chastise those that do. We live in a free country that allows us to defend ourselves and our loved ones against the assaults of deranged or desperate people that chose to act outside the laws of a civilized society. We should celebrate the face we have a choice.

 

[DuckRyder]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Originally Posted By: JHZR2

That's the issue here. Anyone who doesn't insist to carry is placing their head in the sand? Really? So your "know better than the next guy" rhetoric does anything useful for the discussion? Nope.

...


Yet if we carry we are surrounded by people of "horrid character" and "running scared"...

Interesting...


Why are YOU trying to pick a fight with ME? I gave my rationale why based upon risk, I don't have a need to carry. I also clearly stated that it was a personal decision.

...


Been working your own reports again have you, and now you want to bring it into the open forum.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
No one should be chastised for not carrying, but nor should anyone who chooses to not exercise that right chastise those that do. We live in a free country that allows us to defend ourselves and our loved ones against the assaults of deranged or desperate people that chose to act outside the laws of a civilized society. We should celebrate the face we have a choice.
Exactly. You don't worry about what I do, and I won't worry about what you do.

 

[redbone3]

My thesis: All gun control laws and schemes are designed to make it difficult and inconvenient to own a firearm. Actually stopping crime is not the real objective. Anyone agree?