All depends on engine condition. I have noticed the Noack on Pennzoil is high. Yes you would loose more vs an oil with a low Noack
All depends on engine condition. I have noticed the Noack on Pennzoil is high. Yes you would loose more vs an oil with a low Noack
Yeah, only place I've seen them has been the PQIA, and they've been pretty hit or miss on that too. When Pennzoil Ultra first appeared on the scene, it had fantastically low Noack, but that changed, rather dramatically, when that oil was eliminated and the PUP and PP party started.Where are you finding Noack numbers for Pennzoil? I haven't been able to find Noack numbers for Pennzoil for at least a couple years.
Yeah, only place I've seen them has been the PQIA, and they've been pretty hit or miss on that too. When Pennzoil Ultra first appeared on the scene, it had fantastically low Noack, but that changed, rather dramatically, when that oil was eliminated and the PUP and PP party started.
Nope, GTL surprisingly, I posted the SDS for it some time back when Gokhan and I were having this debate, lol.The OG Ultra used lots of PAO I think back then.
Same. I remember a couple years ago they were over 10%. I personally didn't care for PennzoilWhere are you finding Noack numbers for Pennzoil? I haven't been able to find Noack numbers for Pennzoil for at least a couple years.
It was -20F when this happened to my wife. She called me and was about 6 miles from home. It was so cold I didn't want to tow it home. I pulled injector plugs until I found the offending cylinder. I drove it home on 3 cyl which is why #2 looks wet. It was just whhosing away for the slow ride home.Surprised at the amount of varnish, being run on T6. What was the OCI? Though I guess that's less germane given the consumption it was experiencing!
Not entirely true. Low NOACK had no bearing on consumption in my Forester XT. Even running Red Line made no difference.Yes you would loose more vs an oil with a low Noack
Plus there's no where you can walk into a store and buy it. I honestly don't know why Shell even still makes this stuff.All I have ever seen here is marketing and gushing over PUP. There has been no evidence that shows that this particular oil is superior to any other.
There is nothing magic about it.
My 300ZX was run almost exclusively on M1 15W50 at 3K oil changes (I bought it with 30K on it). The top end through the oil fill hole is so clean and shiny that you can see your reflection. I definitely have to give that credit to M1A low volatility oil and an engine that's in good shape results in an oil getting into the ring pack area, exiting via the oil return holes, with only a very thin film (hence, oil control rings, they CONTROL the oil on the piston/wall interface) left. Yes, some of this oil will burn in the combustion chamber, but the amount is minute, most of it should make its way back into the pan via the oil control land drainback holes.
However, higher volatility oils; oils with poor quality base oils, will flash-off/consume while in that ring pack area, leaving deposits, that eventually result in ring sticking and can also cause drainback holes to get plugged up. These are the oils where you will often see consumption, as the oil volatizes and gets consumed via the PCV.
I've posted these slides several times lately, but it sounds like they need to be posted again here:
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You can see that cleanliness is directly related to better performance in deposit control,
ApprovalsWhat is in Penns Plat that other oils are lacking ?
Same. I remember a couple years ago they were over 10%. I personally didn't care for Pennzoil
Recent PQIA test show Pennzoil Platinum 0W-20 and 5W-20 at 8.2% NOACK.
As a comparison;
Valvoline Advanced 0W-20 9.9%
M1 AFE 0W-20 9.8%
Fram FS 0W-20 11.9%
Castrol Edge 0W-20 11.9%
Valvoline Advanced 5W-20 8.7%
M1 5W-20 8.1%
Castrol Edge 5W-20 8.8%
Yes, the error bars for Noack are somewhat wide.This all those oils meet the requirement of
There have been discussions here regarding Noack and how testing comes up with different numbers, even with the same oil. That is why most companies just list that it meets the requirements.
I wouldn’t get too hung up on Noack.
Well said. You get what you pay for. Sure motor oils have a balance of materials to work, but money/cost are the brick wall to creating a over the top do all oil like we see with HPL.Base oil selection is one big component. Mobil, being the vertically integrated juggernaut, produces a lot of base oils that other manufactures have to buy, so then subsequently avoid. These are AN's and esters, along with PAO. AN's and esters are both polar (with esters being moreso, but this introduces surface competition problems at higher concentration levels) and AN's have an uncanny ability to clean, and keep things clean. This is covered in the STLE paper I shared in the Dr. Rudnick thread. The disadvantage of AN's is that they have poor VI's and not great cold temperature performance, so to use them in an oil that will still have excellent cold temp performance, you have to use PAO.
If you look at HPL's formulations, Dr. Rudnick has a LOT of experience with the rather infamous combo of PAO, POE and AN's, which Mobil sold under the "tri-syn" moniker when it was first introduced, but have retained in their formulations since then. So, I tend to think of their (HPL's) oils as sort of the "no holds barred" approach to leveraging that methodology. No major oil company will go this route because it's insanely expensive, but that's how you get the "Godfather of synthetic oils" working for you, give him the ability to produce whatever he wants, without any constraints.
What approvals are other brands lacking?Approvals
I read it as PUP lacking approvals not PP.What approvals are other brands lacking?
I am in now way trying to start anything, buy I have always been under the impression that Amsoil was the Godfather of of synthetic oils.Base oil selection is one big component. Mobil, being the vertically integrated juggernaut, produces a lot of base oils that other manufactures have to buy, so then subsequently avoid. These are AN's and esters, along with PAO. AN's and esters are both polar (with esters being moreso, but this introduces surface competition problems at higher concentration levels) and AN's have an uncanny ability to clean, and keep things clean. This is covered in the STLE paper I shared in the Dr. Rudnick thread. The disadvantage of AN's is that they have poor VI's and not great cold temperature performance, so to use them in an oil that will still have excellent cold temp performance, you have to use PAO.
If you look at HPL's formulations, Dr. Rudnick has a LOT of experience with the rather infamous combo of PAO, POE and AN's, which Mobil sold under the "tri-syn" moniker when it was first introduced, but have retained in their formulations since then. So, I tend to think of their (HPL's) oils as sort of the "no holds barred" approach to leveraging that methodology. No major oil company will go this route because it's insanely expensive, but that's how you get the "Godfather of synthetic oils" working for you, give him the ability to produce whatever he wants, without any constraints.
I am in now way trying to start anything, buy I have always been under the impression that Amsoil was the Godfather of of synthetic oils.
Please inform me! I'm now very curious!
AMSOIL was the first company (they were a year ahead of Mobil) to bring an API-approved synthetic oil to market. However, Mobil had been making synthetic oils for other applications long before that, and in fact, it was a synthetic jet turbine oil (possibly made by Mobil) that Al got his inspiration from.I am in now way trying to start anything, buy I have always been under the impression that Amsoil was the Godfather of of synthetic oils.
Please inform me! I'm now very curious!