M/T Comparo: 2011 Ford Mustang GT vs 2011 BMW M3

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Originally Posted By: d00df00d
The Mustang is no quicker from a dig, despite having a live rear axle, 100 lb-ft more torque, and only 50 lbs more weight.


QUARTER MILE: (M3) 12.8 sec @ 110.9 mph - (GT) 12.7 sec @ 111.6 mph

Also, watch the drag strip portion of the video. The Mustang was laying more rubber than the M3. I would say the Mustang is definitely quicker than the M3, especially if larger/softer tires are used on both.
 
Originally Posted By: crw
All males between 40 and 60 is a pretty big market.

I sincerely doubt all males between 40 and 60 are looking for a mid-life crisis car.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Go take a test drive in a new M3 and compare to the Stang. I sincerely doubt the average BMW shopper will even visit the Ford dealer!


I do agree that the average BMW shopper will not cross shop the Mustang, but that has nothing to do with the test drive.

What advantages does the M3 actually have over the new GT?

Better interior? No
Better engine? No
Better brakes? No
Better grip? No
Better steering? No
Better balance? No
Better ride? No
Better shocks? Yes
Better trans and shifter? Yes
Better status symbol? Yes
 
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
They said the SHOCKS start to get flustered

Come on. That's like saying "it's not that he can't walk, it's that his knees can't carry him."


Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
they also said that the Mustang had better balance.

Better handling balance, i.e. understeer vs. oversteer. This was a design choice for both cars. It has no bearing on either one being more or less worth the money.
 
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: addyguy
It isn't $27k more car, not with numbers this close!

They said in the article that the Mustang's suspension starts to show weakness above 60 or 70 MPH.


They said the SHOCKS start to get flustered, they also said that the Mustang had better balance.

Shocks aren't that expensive to upgrade but it does show that the M3 has been tuned more for highspeed performance driving. Like someone said above, I'd bet the times around the nurburgring would favor the M3 quite a bit.
But for the average joe going to the odd lapping day on a sane track, it shows that the performance and fun of an M3 can be had at Mustang prices... Very impressive of Ford to pull that off.
 
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
QUARTER MILE: (M3) 12.8 sec @ 110.9 mph - (GT) 12.7 sec @ 111.6 mph

Also, watch the drag strip portion of the video. The Mustang was laying more rubber than the M3. I would say the Mustang is definitely quicker than the M3, especially if larger/softer tires are used on both.

...but the 0-60 times are identical.

As for the "larger/softer tires" argument... you run what you brung.

If your argument is that the 'Stang is a better choice as a drag car, then duh. No surprise there. No one in his right mind would buy an M3 for that purpose, so the comparison is meaningless in that context.
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
They said the SHOCKS start to get flustered

Come on. That's like saying "it's not that he can't walk, it's that his knees can't carry him."


It's more like saying that a $400 set of shocks/struts will cure it.
grin2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
QUARTER MILE: (M3) 12.8 sec @ 110.9 mph - (GT) 12.7 sec @ 111.6 mph

Also, watch the drag strip portion of the video. The Mustang was laying more rubber than the M3. I would say the Mustang is definitely quicker than the M3, especially if larger/softer tires are used on both.

...but the 0-60 times are identical


Because the Mustang was hazing the tires through 1st gear, a problem the M3 didn't have.
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Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
It's more like saying that a $400 set of shocks/struts will cure it.
grin2.gif


In that case, you should write to Ford and tell them. I'm sure they'd be fascinated to hear from you.
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
It's more like saying that a $400 set of shocks/struts will cure it.
grin2.gif


In that case, you should write to Ford and tell them. I'm sure they'd be fascinated to hear from you.


And why would I do that?

mustang-boss-302-01.jpg


They are ready to build my "dream" Mustang.
 
I'd much rather have the 'Stang, plus a NEW Edge or Escape for winter driving for the same amount of $:) I read that article yesterday, and was quite surprised -- as I'm sure most are. The average driver obtained a .55 sec faster track time in the Mustang. The pro driver obtain 9 hundredths of a second quicker time in the M3. Considering the Mustang wins in every other category (check out MPG!), I wouldn't consider it #2 in this comparo.
 
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
What advantages does the M3 actually have over the new GT?

Independent rear suspension

Electronically controlled rear differential

Better high-speed stability and handling

Better composure at all speeds

Refinement on a level that Ford isn't even attempting, much less with the Mustang

Available in sedan format

Mature, being a few years old now and free of growing pains


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Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Refinement on a level that Ford isn't even attempting, much less with the Mustang


Define refinement
 
Dont forget how impressed the women will be that you drive a BMW and not a Mustang. Even though all the car guys out there now know that the Mustang betters the M3 in almost every objective way in which a vehicles dynamics can be tested.

Refinement and composure...lol....I like the subjective nature of those comparisons much better. Ignore those pesky objective test numbers at all costs.
 
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Define refinement

For one thing, it means that no one ever says the following about your car in OFF-track comparisons to Audis and Cadillacs:
Quote:
That's a goldplated gunfight for the sharp, but knife-wielding Mustang.


It also means getting the same job done with less fuss, less drama, and less danger. Again, in MT's estimation, this is what the M3 does compared to the Mustang.

Lastly, it's very expensive to achieve, hence the price gap.
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By the way, why is this such a problem to you? I don't think anyone is saying the M3 is a better car. The posts to which you started responding were trying to make the point that this was an apples-to-oranges comparison. Are you disputing that point, or is something else bothering you?
 
It's not a problem for me at all and nothing is bothering me, I promise. I'm just interested in what "way" the M3 is more refined.

Are we talking NVH? Ride? Handling? "Feel"? Interior? I've heard so many different definitions of refinement I'm not sure what this means coming from different people.

The Mustang interior really doesn't give up anything to the M3 interior except for maybe seats, and the '11 Mustang is a lot smoother and quieter than most realize. It's smoothness has resulted in some complaints, believe it or not, from some Mustang fans. It doesn't feel like a traditional Mustang anymore.

I haven't driven an E92 M3, but I have driven an E46 M3.
 
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
It's not a problem for me at all and nothing is bothering me, I promise. I'm just interested in what "way" the M3 is more refined.

Are we talking NVH? Ride? Handling? "Feel"? Interior? I've heard so many different definitions of refinement I'm not sure what this means coming from different people.

The Mustang interior really doesn't give up anything to the M3 interior except for maybe seats, and the '11 Mustang is a lot smoother and quieter than most realize. It's smoothness has resulted in some complaints, believe it or not, from some Mustang fans. It doesn't feel like a traditional Mustang anymore.

I haven't driven an E92 M3, but I have driven an E46 M3.

Understandable.

Here's how I've understood it.

One factor is that it's a combination of things that usually pull in opposite directions; for example, taut body control and a smooth ride are easy to achieve separately, but very hard to achieve together. Ditto with firm engine mounts and low NVH, good steering feel and isolating the steering from bumps and vibration, excitement with relaxation, etc. When those goals are achieved together, that's called "refinement."

Another factor is attention to detail, not just in interior fit-and-finish but in little things that you're not really aware of but that affect the drive. For example, BMWs usually have excellent visibility (not just of the trees around you but of the vehicle's extremities), very good dive/squat control, VERY safe handling behavior at the limit, etc. This is the stuff that makes people feel like some cars "just drive better," even though they don't seem particularly special in parts.
 
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