Looking for PC Recommendations

[john_pifer]

Thanks guys.

We’ve been out of town for the last couple of days and just got back in. But I’m planning to try to make time to sit down and research this tomorrow.

 

[PandaBear]

Mac vs PC: my personal preference is PC due to standardization reason, you are more likely able to upgrade with PC if you buy higher quality ones than Mac. I don't like the integrated machines like iMac or laptops with DRAM soldered on, and especially not like M1 / M2 powered Mac as the flash died way too soon due to DRAM size.

Brand within PC: business grade of any brand would be build better than the consumer grade of all brand. I personally like Lenovo's quality better, then Dell, then HP being the worse of the big 3. I might try ACER / ASUS if the price is right but so far I am seeing good result based on price and configuration. I have Dell, Lenovo, HP at home, all 3 brands.

What I would look for to future proof: at least 2 RAM slots, so I can buy more rams to add in the future, at least a slot / bay I can replace SSD, good screen / monitor (you cannot upgrade it in a laptop, and you look at it all the time, buy a good one).

 

[alarmguy]

Sounds like you love your Apple cell phones, maybe it’s worth it to look into a Mac mini M2 desktop.

We love the thoughtless integration of our two Mac mini (M1 and I-5) desktops with our two iPhone 13’s and with my MacBook Air M1

We maintain one Windows computer, which is my wife’s Lenovo i-5 yoga with that Intel super architecture that I forgot the name of because at the time two years back she wasn’t sure if she was ready to dive fully into the Apple world.

We don’t have dual monitors on our personal equipment, but I believe the new Mac mini M2 is fully set up for that.

Irrelevant to the above, but my wife also has a work at home company supplied Dell workstation with two monitors.

 

[john_pifer]

I believe I’m going to buy a Mac Mini M2. I just need to decide whether to get the base M2 256GB ($599), or upgrade to the M2 512GB ($799), or the M2 Pro ($1299).

Id like to have 2 monitors.

What monitors should I get? What sizes?

Id like to take advantage of the fact that this is going to be a desktop, and get some good sized monitors.

Guess I need to figure out what resolution the M2 Mini supports.

 

[Sonny88]

Alienware Computers, Dell owns them, i have one--it's awesome !!

 

[Skippy722]

I believe I’m going to buy a Mac Mini M2. I just need to decide whether to get the base M2 256GB ($599), or upgrade to the M2 512GB ($799), or the M2 Pro ($1299).

Id like to have 2 monitors.

What monitors should I get? What sizes?

Id like to take advantage of the fact that this is going to be a desktop, and get some good sized monitors.

Guess I need to figure out what resolution the M2 Mini supports.

Whatever you want really, just one must be Thunderbolt and you can use HDMI for the other.

 

[Skippy722]

Alienware Computers, Dell owns them, i have one--it's awesome !!

Dell/Alienware released a $5000 computer that thermal throttles because it doesn’t have enough cooling. Or an $1,800 computer that they hacked an Intel stock cpu cooler onto an AMD cpu

 

[Sonny88]

Alienware was much better until Dell bought them out.
I personally have had no problems, but I don’t overclock or game on mine.
It’s used for mostly graphic work

 

[97prizm]

I have a laptop that I bought used about 10 years ago, and my wife has one that is a little newer (about 2 yrs old).

However, now that we have kids, and a house, I’d like to get a PC for everyone to be able to use, for convenience.

Sure, most anything can be looked up on phones, but there are times when a PC is much more convenient, and sometimes the software is needed for certain things (Word, Excel, etc).

I’d also like for our kids (ages: 2, 1, and 3 months) to grow up much more computer-literate and skilled than I did (I’m 43, and I feel like I just “get by” with regard to computer literacy - there are things I’ve had to learn for work, but I’ve never been happy with my computer/software skills).

We don’t do any gaming. This would be purely for internet use, composing letters and printing when we need to, possibly storing certain files occasionally, etc.

I’ve gotten used to having 2 monitors at work, and I now prefer that setup. So I would like to have 2 monitors.

What is important to me is having snappy response/performance, being “future-proof”, or at least upgradable, having up-to-date hardware (I don’t want to buy something that’s already out of date), having nice, large screens, and a nice keyboard (I’d like a keyboard with backlighting).

So, my question for you computer gurus is, is there a brand/model, that stands out as the “standard” for our use case?

Something else: My wife and I both really like Apple (I have an iPhone 11 and she has, I believe, a 13 ProMax), and would never consider a different brand/OS phone. My mom also had an Apple laptop years ago that I was always very impressed with its quality. However, it was very, very expensive. So that’s why I haven’t really considered going that route. But has anything changed? Are Apple computers still super expensive?

I like to get a lot for my money.

So what computer, monitors, keyboard should I get? Are there package deals these days?

I have not started looking yet, at all.

Thanks!

Yes Think Penguin or System 76. Both run Linux (Ubuntu) and are just as easy as any Microsoft or Apple without the security issues. Similar programs etc. Linux has come an extremely long way from the old days of difficulty installing drivers etc.

 

[KrisZ]

I believe I’m going to buy a Mac Mini M2. I just need to decide whether to get the base M2 256GB ($599), or upgrade to the M2 512GB ($799), or the M2 Pro ($1299).

Id like to have 2 monitors.

What monitors should I get? What sizes?

Id like to take advantage of the fact that this is going to be a desktop, and get some good sized monitors.

Guess I need to figure out what resolution the M2 Mini supports.

The basic mini M2 is is not a bad proposition, but that m2 Pro is, well it’s your money.

As far as monitors go, you need to decide what size and then pick a resolution, as it affects pixel density, which affects how things look, especially text.

Generally speaking, below 24 inch, you can stay on 1080p. Between 24-32 inch 1440p is recommend. Above that 4k.

If you’re planning to do a lot of reading I would recommend going with 4k and 27-32 inch monitors. The text is much smoother and your eyes don’t tire as much. But 4k is pricey.

For example:
A 24inch 1080p monitor pixel density is around 92.
A 32 inch 1440p monitor will have the same pixel density at around 92-93.
A 32 inch 4k monitor will have pixel density at around 138z

So out of the three above, the 32inch 4k display will look the sharpest because the pixels are a lot smaller and less noticeable.


Personally I would rather have one bigger and higher resolution monitor than two, but lower resolution ones.

Two monitors are great for productivity and that’s the setup I have at work. But for home use, my 32 inch 1440p LG is great. I used to have a two, 24 inch, 1080p setup at home, but I like one bigger monitor setup better.

 

[alarmguy]

We have 4 monitors in our house (two are my wife's company supplied workstation). All 27 inch, perfect size for us. I might have tried (cant remember) a 32 some time ago. Couldn't take it, sitting close up on desktop for us was just too much "real estate" where my eyes were trying to catch the whole screen. Even found 27 a bit large for that but quickly got used to it and will never get anything different. Love the 27s.
I must have tried and returned at least 5 different brands and types including curve screens. Settled on two HP 27f(now out of production) for the two Mac mini's.
Im sure they are not the highest spec monitors but I have no clue, just that we loved them and they were the keepers. Actually had one at first and when I got my wife the second Mac she wanted the same monitor I had. I have no clue what resolution Im running it on, I think I cut the resolution down a little to make the overall screen and type a little larger.

Anyway, purpose of my post is sitting just over an arms away from the monitor for us, the 27 is great.
Her company supplied Dell workstation is running two Sceptre 27 inch monitors. I have no idea if they are high end or low end. I cant imagine them being low end as she works in an industry intensive graphics/company logos materials and design industry.

As I type this, I realize how care free my Mac's have made me over the last few years. I used to know a lot about the latest monitors, types of back lighting ect ... CPUs in pc's ect... but I forgot all that now because everything just works great compared to when I had Windows stuff and dont feel the need to upgrade even my older Mac mini purchased around 2019 i5. (known as the new 2018 vs older versions)
Then again, maybe the Windows world is the same now.

As far as your question, you can try different screen sizes, just be sure of the return policies of where you buy and try a couple different ones out if your not sure, returns are easy but always confirm. Not sure if you also have stores like Office Max and Staples nearby. Best Buy, Amazon, Dell ect online

We just bought a new soundbar for our new home, 3 returns, one keeper. Tried different ones, one at a time. though the last return, was just to get a sale price that popped on the one we liked.

 

[bunnspecial]

I believe I’m going to buy a Mac Mini M2. I just need to decide whether to get the base M2 256GB ($599), or upgrade to the M2 512GB ($799), or the M2 Pro ($1299).

Id like to have 2 monitors.

What monitors should I get? What sizes?

Id like to take advantage of the fact that this is going to be a desktop, and get some good sized monitors.

Guess I need to figure out what resolution the M2 Mini supports.

Real world use tells me that buying a computer in 2023 with less than 16gb RAM is a bad idea in 2023.

I royally upset someone on here a few years ago when I got my 8gb M1 MacBook Pro, but I stand by it. Apple's memory management is great-one of the best around-but 8gb just isn't enough. Even in normal day-to-day use I can all but guarantee you'll be hitting the swap constantly. You may or may not notice it, but it's there. Disk access on the M-series chips with their integrated architecture is among the fastest you will find, but it's still many times slower than the RAM. My 2012 MacBook Pro with 16gb RAM remains more usuable for many RAM-limited tasks than my 2020 M1 MacBook Pro for this very reason.

The M2 Pro may be overkill for you, but if you want to spit the difference I'd suggest build to order an M2 with 16gb RAM and 512gb storage(minimum). BTW, I find 256gb far too limiting for storage too. In fact I owned an M1 MBP with 256gb for about 4 hours and returned it for the 512gb model when I realized it wasn't going to work for me. That's me, though, and cloud storage is seamless these days(but you pay for it in the long run if you save $200 now on upgrading your storage but end up being married to a $10/month cloud plan forever) so your call. Of course for a desktop big external storage is easy to use.

For monitors, I find 2K 27" displays to be a nice spot these days, and there are a lot of options out there at varying price points.

 

[alarmguy]

As far as the mini this is my current Mini mentioned previously the i5, my wife has the M1 both basic entry level machines. I also have the basic entry level MacBook Air. Day to day house hold stuff on the internet, shopping just about anything household related never a hic-cup. We use our home computers extensively. I am talking, every aspect of our lives. From Banking to Shopping to everything Health Care related to buying homes and mortgages before most people even know you could. Haven't stepped in a bank in a decade? Except one time that I remember.
We just recently purchased a home, completely online, all financing, docusigns, scanning documents ect. We did meet for the closing for only one reason, we were in town and I figured why not? For all the money I might as well make them do something! *LOL*
and I wanted to be sure we got the keys right away. The closing again, just consisted of docusign and all our closing papers were provided on a USB drive. (just giving background on how we use our computers if you are the typical family)

I have no problem for people who want more, I am saying we never notice any desire or need to have more in the way we use our computers. It's doesn't mean, having twice the horsepower of any device or vehicle for that matter is a bad thing.
Im not tech enough, nor do I care if swapping is taking place, I dont see how our computers can be any faster than our 300 Mbps connection. I trust Apple to have provided so far with very reliable computers.
Screen shot of the older i5 Mac mini after being in use for 3 years and I imagine I will have it up to another 3 years maybe sooner, for fun an M2 and who knows? Maybe Ill double memory for no other reason then "because"
I was concerned about storage but as you can see that turned out to be not a concern. Until this post I haven't checked in a long time and still have not used more than half and I have way too many videos and photos saved. That is the next part of my life, deleting 90% or them because when I am no longer on this earth the kids will not even do anything with the 10% left over.

Talking about photos and videos on my Mac mini I am sure my kids dont want more than maybe 50 photos and a few videos. I got a lot to delete!~ Yet still have 174 GB of storage left.

 

[john_pifer]

Real world use tells me that buying a computer in 2023 with less than 16gb RAM is a bad idea in 2023.

I royally upset someone on here a few years ago when I got my 8gb M1 MacBook Pro, but I stand by it. Apple's memory management is great-one of the best around-but 8gb just isn't enough. Even in normal day-to-day use I can all but guarantee you'll be hitting the swap constantly. You may or may not notice it, but it's there. Disk access on the M-series chips with their integrated architecture is among the fastest you will find, but it's still many times slower than the RAM. My 2012 MacBook Pro with 16gb RAM remains more usuable for many RAM-limited tasks than my 2020 M1 MacBook Pro for this very reason.

The M2 Pro may be overkill for you, but if you want to spit the difference I'd suggest build to order an M2 with 16gb RAM and 512gb storage(minimum). BTW, I find 256gb far too limiting for storage too. In fact I owned an M1 MBP with 256gb for about 4 hours and returned it for the 512gb model when I realized it wasn't going to work for me. That's me, though, and cloud storage is seamless these days(but you pay for it in the long run if you save $200 now on upgrading your storage but end up being married to a $10/month cloud plan forever) so your call. Of course for a desktop big external storage is easy to use.

For monitors, I find 2K 27" displays to be a nice spot these days, and there are a lot of options out there at varying price points.

I'm not following.

You said that having
Also, I'm not familiar with the term you used, "hitting the swap". No idea what that means.

Also not clear on what you mean when you compare the integrated architecture chips with RAM.

Sorry for my ignorance here.

I just want a machine that will last many years. I don't want to be cheap and buy a lower-spec computer and have it be, essentially, out of date the day I get it.

I would hope that whatever I get would last for at least 10 years (around the time my oldest will be finishing up elementary school, and the other 1 are 1 year and 2 years behind him). I realize that the internet is constantly advancing, and demand on computers is constantly increasing.

Thanks for your input!

 

[john_pifer]

We have 4 monitors in our house (two are my wife's company supplied workstation). All 27 inch, perfect size for us. I might have tried (cant remember) a 32 some time ago. Couldn't take it, sitting close up on desktop for us was just too much "real estate" where my eyes were trying to catch the whole screen. Even found 27 a bit large for that but quickly got used to it and will never get anything different. Love the 27s.
I must have tried and returned at least 5 different brands and types including curve screens. Settled on two HP 27f(now out of production) for the two Mac mini's.
Im sure they are not the highest spec monitors but I have no clue, just that we loved them and they were the keepers. Actually had one at first and when I got my wife the second Mac she wanted the same monitor I had. I have no clue what resolution Im running it on, I think I cut the resolution down a little to make the overall screen and type a little larger.

Anyway, purpose of my post is sitting just over an arms away from the monitor for us, the 27 is great.
Her company supplied Dell workstation is running two Sceptre 27 inch monitors. I have no idea if they are high end or low end. I cant imagine them being low end as she works in an industry intensive graphics/company logos materials and design industry.

As I type this, I realize how care free my Mac's have made me over the last few years. I used to know a lot about the latest monitors, types of back lighting ect ... CPUs in pc's ect... but I forgot all that now because everything just works great compared to when I had Windows stuff and dont feel the need to upgrade even my older Mac mini purchased around 2019 i5. (known as the new 2018 vs older versions)
Then again, maybe the Windows world is the same now.

As far as your question, you can try different screen sizes, just be sure of the return policies of where you buy and try a couple different ones out if your not sure, returns are easy but always confirm. Not sure if you also have stores like Office Max and Staples nearby. Best Buy, Amazon, Dell ect online

We just bought a new soundbar for our new home, 3 returns, one keeper. Tried different ones, one at a time. though the last return, was just to get a sale price that popped on the one we liked.

Thanks.

The 27" does sound like a sort of "sweet spot" as far as size, since we're going with 2 monitors. I don't know. I need to go to a store where I can compare monitor sizes.

What I'm wondering: Is there a sort of "sweet spot" in terms of value, for monitors?

With things I buy, I find that I like "7 out of 10" in terms of price. That way, I'm getting quality. But I'm still getting value for the money I'm spending, and not hitting that point where the returns I'm getting for spending more money are diminishing.

Like, I don't mind spending some money. As long as I'm getting long-term value for my money.

I will probably go ahead and get the M2 Pro, because I don't want to get to a point in a few years where it's getting laggy, and I'm running out of capacity. After all, it's just a few hundred dollars more.

As far as monitors, I'm willing to go $1000-1200 for both.

 

[bunnspecial]

I'm not following.

You said that having
Also, I'm not familiar with the term you used, "hitting the swap". No idea what that means.

Also not clear on what you mean when you compare the integrated architecture chips with RAM.

Sorry for being a bit confusing and unclear on it.

Basically, I bought an 8gb M1 MBP thinking it would be "fine" based on what I'd read/heard about them. This was when the new M computers had been on the market a few months(released November 2020, bought mine February 2021). At first I thought it was fine, but in day-to-day use I increasingly realized that the memory was a real hindrance to it.

My "standing by" is that I feel very strongly that it's not a good idea to buy one in 2023 with 8gb RAM. I should also clarify that as far as I know, with current Apple models, there is no option between 8gb and 16gb, so as Macs go the statements "Don't buy less than 16gb" and "Don't buy 8gb" are effectively the same. I have quite a long thread buried here where I go through and analyze RAM usage in a lot of different scenarios.

What I mean by "hitting the swap" refers to how the computer handles running out of memory. Basically, there are a couple of modern methods of "stretching" the RAM. One of those is compression, which macOS does very effectively. The other has been around for a long time, and basically when you run out of RAM the computer takes some things currently in the RAM and writes them to the disk. This is called "swapping." Solid state storage is ubiquitous now, which makes this process much faster than it was even with a fast spinning disk. The M-series Macs take disk read/write speed up to a whole other level(see my next paragraph) but it's still much slower than just dealing directly with the RAM.

In a traditional computer design, the CPU, RAM, and storage are all separate, discreet devices tied together through various "busses" in the computer. In the past decade, these interconnects have gotten a whole lot faster and data just gets moved around faster. At the same time, though, there are still some limits on this including the number of connections you can make between these things and how quickly electrical signals can travel over a distance. The M series CPUs basically integrate the CPU, RAM, and storage into one physical "package"(aside from the Mac Studio and possibly the new Mac Pro which do have the storage on removable cards, although these are proprietary and I'm not sure it's even been established how interchangeable they are between computers). This is why you are stuck with what you get when you buy it. It's not like the iMac I'm typing this from, that I bought with 16gb and then added an additional 64gb.

 

[Blueshound]

OP, have you considered an Intel NUC (mini desktop)? You can spec higher than a laptop for the same price, and it takes up basically no room on the desk. I second the prior recommendation of no less than 16GB memory and in fact I would go 32gb. My 12 year old Dell with 16gb is snappier than my new work laptop that has only 8gb; both with i5 processors.

 

[uc50ic4more]

I just want a machine that will last many years.

In my experience (I have been a web developer and have been using computers for multimedia production since the internet was still called "the information superhighway"), Apple-branded hardware is consistently outstanding. I have 3 iPhone 4S that I use *when* other phones fail and I need something that will 100% function as a phone/texting device. I ran a recording studio centred around a MacBook Pro from 2006 for over 10 years (!) simply by replacing a battery and spinning HDD a couple of times. The thing was bulletproof. I am typing this message on a 12-year-old iMac running Debian Linux.

Why Linux?

Because although the hardware will last years, to Apple you are cattle; an endless supply of consumer cash on an upgrade treadmill. There is planned obsolescence that will render you using an unsupported OS that may or may not (mostly "may not") be able to run the latest versions of your preferred applications. Not next month, not next year. But there'll be an EOL (end-of-life) date for your OS and applications and there'll be date where your machine itself is no longer supported. It'll time to buy more pretty-but-eventually-obsolete crap to begin the costly process anew. Mooooooooo.

I've read your original post again and have chosen to be "that guy": If your requirements do not involve specific pieces of software that only run on Windows or Mac; you want something safe, private, secure and simple; you want your kids to develop some technical acuity; and you want something that'll be reliable and consistent **for years**, a business class PC that is built like a tank (I recently bought a Dell Precision workstation with a 6-core Xeon for $150 Canadian) coupled with a Linux-based OS (Ubuntu would be your best bet IMHO) checks all the boxes.

 

[john_pifer]

In my experience (I have been a web developer and have been using computers for multimedia production since the internet was still called "the information superhighway"), Apple-branded hardware is consistently outstanding. I have 3 iPhone 4S that I use *when* other phones fail and I need something that will 100% function as a phone/texting device. I ran a recording studio centred around a MacBook Pro from 2006 for over 10 years (!) simply by replacing a battery and spinning HDD a couple of times. The thing was bulletproof. I am typing this message on a 12-year-old iMac running Debian Linux.

Why Linux?

Because although the hardware will last years, to Apple you are cattle; an endless supply of consumer cash on an upgrade treadmill. There is planned obsolescence that will render you using an unsupported OS that may or may not (mostly "may not") be able to run the latest versions of your preferred applications. Not next month, not next year. But there'll be an EOL (end-of-life) date for your OS and applications and there'll be date where your machine itself is no longer supported. It'll time to buy more pretty-but-eventually-obsolete crap to begin the costly process anew. Mooooooooo.

I've read your original post again and have chosen to be "that guy": If your requirements do not involve specific pieces of software that only run on Windows or Mac; you want something safe, private, secure and simple; you want your kids to develop some technical acuity; and you want something that'll be reliable and consistent **for years**, a business class PC that is built like a tank (I recently bought a Dell Precision workstation with a 6-core Xeon for $150 Canadian) coupled with a Linux-based OS (Ubuntu would be your best bet IMHO) checks all the boxes.

I know very little about computers in general (enough to get by).

I know nothing about Linux.

It seems like just about everything will run on Windows or Apple with no hassles.

I don’t think I’d be interested in getting a computer with software I know nothing about (plus, the wife and I love our iPhones and have had almost zero problems with them since getting my first one (a 3G) back in 2008.

So thanks, and I appreciate the point you’re making about obsolescence. But I think I’ll pass on Linux, as I don’t have an IT guy on my payroll whom I can call with questions

 

[john_pifer]

I think a Mac M2 or M2 Pro will suit our needs and will be fun to use alongside our iPhones.

Will run 2 monitors (again, gotten spoiled on that setup at work).

Now just need to decide which monitors to buy.