Here is my best advice I can give you. Join AVS forums, and find your market in this forum. Post a TV Fool report, and what you are trying to do, and see what kind of help you can get. A lot of antenna installers and engineers that work at the TV stations hang out there.
Long range attic antenna?
- Thread starter Digital2k2
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I have a Radio Shack "loop" HDTV antenna inside the attic on a pole. As high as I can get it. It is extremely directional and pulls in a good number of local digital stations from West Palm Beach and it's sketchy on Miami stations.
I also have a "Terk" amplified HDTV antenna on top of my bedroom TV. It pulls in 2 or 3 stations.
I also have a "Terk" amplified HDTV antenna on top of my bedroom TV. It pulls in 2 or 3 stations.
Take note that there's serious money on the table for TV stations to "repack" out of UHF and into VHF, or to disappear entirely in the next couple years. Make appropriate antenna decisions.
My radio shack (channel master) UHF only directional rooftop pulls in VHF-hi adequately, against its own claims, BTW.
My radio shack (channel master) UHF only directional rooftop pulls in VHF-hi adequately, against its own claims, BTW.
I know there was talk about some moving to VHF. I would not think they would disappear because there is just way too many advertising dollars at stake, and at the same time when over the air has made a come back because people are cutting the cord in large numbers now. Since TV has gone to digitial, my channels have increased significantly over a period of time. Just recently Fox just added another sub with the Heroes&Icons channel. I am sure some of you guys are getting that one.
I still check with the cable company every now and then to see if they have à la carte available, and nope not yet. Got sick of paying for channels that's not in the English language, and QVC, and on and on.
I still check with the cable company every now and then to see if they have à la carte available, and nope not yet. Got sick of paying for channels that's not in the English language, and QVC, and on and on.
I had not heard of the push to drop down to VHF. Interesting. I know the RF landscape is jam packed, but I guess VHF and lower is becoming less desirable--hard to get enough RF bandwidth to support the signal bandwidth, and the antennas are bigger than for UHF.
The Channel Master cm-4228 I mentioned lists a 180 degree reception pattern which is wider than a standard log periodic antenna. You are right, it cannot pick up stations from behind the grid. I meant to say it is
Quote:
multi directional
not
Quote:
omni directional
. If the CM-4288 is used without a reflector grid then it can pick up channels from the front and rear but reception distance will be less.
Quote:
multi directional
not
Quote:
omni directional
. If the CM-4288 is used without a reflector grid then it can pick up channels from the front and rear but reception distance will be less.
Thanks for the help everyone. BigD1, those links are very informative and the HD7698P does look nice. I see that a lot of antennas wouldn't even pick up channel 3.1.
I was hoping that 50 mile antenna I posted a link to would pick up 3.1, but I have a feeling it wouldn't. Very few of the listings actually say if they do.
Some of the antennas might not even fit through my attic door; could maybe squeeze something three feet wide though it.
Another thing I forgot to mention, is that I need to run cable to the crawl space and under a good part of the house. It might be a little over 100 feet.
I was hoping that 50 mile antenna I posted a link to would pick up 3.1, but I have a feeling it wouldn't. Very few of the listings actually say if they do.
Some of the antennas might not even fit through my attic door; could maybe squeeze something three feet wide though it.
Another thing I forgot to mention, is that I need to run cable to the crawl space and under a good part of the house. It might be a little over 100 feet.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
If you have a long cable run, put an amp in the attic near the antenna to "push" the signal down the wire. It gets less interference than "pulling".
You could market an eljefino amp called "The Signal Sucker"
The S/N ratio is best at the antenna head.
If you have a long cable run, put an amp in the attic near the antenna to "push" the signal down the wire. It gets less interference than "pulling".
You could market an eljefino amp called "The Signal Sucker"
The S/N ratio is best at the antenna head.
The boxes for antennas are fairly narrow, so you should have no problem getting it through the door. You can assemble it in the attic. You have to fold out the elements, and lock them in place. Just check the manufacturer specs.
I did read over at AVS foruns that Antennacraft has quit making antennas because of the RadioShack bankruptcy. Dang shame too because they made good antennas for the money.
I did read over at AVS foruns that Antennacraft has quit making antennas because of the RadioShack bankruptcy. Dang shame too because they made good antennas for the money.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
If you have a long cable run, put an amp in the attic near the antenna to "push" the signal down the wire. It gets less interference than "pulling".
Yes that's what I would do, but some times you never know if it work as is or not.
The db loss from cable run and splitter would have to be calculated to get the right size preamp. Too much gain can make a signal worse because of too much noise.
If you have a long cable run, put an amp in the attic near the antenna to "push" the signal down the wire. It gets less interference than "pulling".
Yes that's what I would do, but some times you never know if it work as is or not.
The db loss from cable run and splitter would have to be calculated to get the right size preamp. Too much gain can make a signal worse because of too much noise.
Forgot to add. Don't forget about grounding. I know some years ago in my area that an antenna ground was supposed to be tied in with the house earth ground or the power meter grounding rod. My memory is not too good on that, so just do the research.
My antenna is mounted outside, so it's a magnet for lightning strike unless the static is drained off to ground. I drove a five foot grounding rod in the ground near my antenna, and then used a grounding rod clamp on the ground rod, and a grounding rod clamp on the mast, and then used an 8 gauge copper wire for the connection. Then I installed an F-pin grounding block/antenna discharge unit right before the coax came into the house, and then ran an 8 gauge wire from the block to the grounding rod.
Don't know about the ground requirements for an attic mounted antenna.
My antenna is mounted outside, so it's a magnet for lightning strike unless the static is drained off to ground. I drove a five foot grounding rod in the ground near my antenna, and then used a grounding rod clamp on the ground rod, and a grounding rod clamp on the mast, and then used an 8 gauge copper wire for the connection. Then I installed an F-pin grounding block/antenna discharge unit right before the coax came into the house, and then ran an 8 gauge wire from the block to the grounding rod.
Don't know about the ground requirements for an attic mounted antenna.
I remember in the days of VCR's the recorders would have small signal amps in them to make up for the losses inherent in the extra tuner. I had an amp on my antenna lead in the attic that I used to need in the days of analog TV. When I hooked it to the TiVo I got noise. When I removed it from the circuit everything was fine.
Originally Posted By: Digital2k2
I'm trying to find a good antenna to mount in the attic to pick up local channels. The small indoor antennas hardly pick up one or two channels even on the second floor. I'm hoping once I get into the 2nd floor attic that things will improve with a larger antenna.
Can anyone recommend a good long range antenna? I need an omni-directional antenna to get a signal from towers about 44 miles away in opposite directions. Will an attic antenna even work at that distance?
Most of my electronics tech career was in the shop working on the bench.
I did spend a few years on the road and was often asked what antenna worked well in a particular area.
My stock answer was "ask your neighbor" . Talk to your neighbor(s) and ask them what antenna they are using and how their reception is.... OTA reception varies from location to location.
I'm trying to find a good antenna to mount in the attic to pick up local channels. The small indoor antennas hardly pick up one or two channels even on the second floor. I'm hoping once I get into the 2nd floor attic that things will improve with a larger antenna.
Can anyone recommend a good long range antenna? I need an omni-directional antenna to get a signal from towers about 44 miles away in opposite directions. Will an attic antenna even work at that distance?
Most of my electronics tech career was in the shop working on the bench.
I did spend a few years on the road and was often asked what antenna worked well in a particular area.
My stock answer was "ask your neighbor" . Talk to your neighbor(s) and ask them what antenna they are using and how their reception is.... OTA reception varies from location to location.
Originally Posted By: BigD1
Originally Posted By: eljefino
If you have a long cable run, put an amp in the attic near the antenna to "push" the signal down the wire. It gets less interference than "pulling".
Yes that's what I would do, but some times you never know if it work as is or not.
The db loss from cable run and splitter would have to be calculated to get the right size preamp. Too much gain can make a signal worse because of too much noise.
A preamp has noise of its own. It is usually treated as output noise, so you can think of it as adding -xdB to the signal on the coax, and then gaining both signal and noise by xdB. Or you could just add the noise to the output. Regardless of how you want to treat it, you'd rather gain the signal up from the antenna BEFORE it goes down some lossy coax, while its signal to noise ratio is at its highest.
You could think of that run of lossy coax attenuating the preamp noise (plus signal) instead of only attenuating the signal and then adding in its noise.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
If you have a long cable run, put an amp in the attic near the antenna to "push" the signal down the wire. It gets less interference than "pulling".
Yes that's what I would do, but some times you never know if it work as is or not.
The db loss from cable run and splitter would have to be calculated to get the right size preamp. Too much gain can make a signal worse because of too much noise.
A preamp has noise of its own. It is usually treated as output noise, so you can think of it as adding -xdB to the signal on the coax, and then gaining both signal and noise by xdB. Or you could just add the noise to the output. Regardless of how you want to treat it, you'd rather gain the signal up from the antenna BEFORE it goes down some lossy coax, while its signal to noise ratio is at its highest.
You could think of that run of lossy coax attenuating the preamp noise (plus signal) instead of only attenuating the signal and then adding in its noise.
Originally Posted By: BigD1
Forgot to add. Don't forget about grounding. I know some years ago in my area that an antenna ground was supposed to be tied in with the house earth ground or the power meter grounding rod. My memory is not too good on that, so just do the research.
My antenna is mounted outside, so it's a magnet for lightning strike unless the static is drained off to ground. I drove a five foot grounding rod in the ground near my antenna, and then used a grounding rod clamp on the ground rod, and a grounding rod clamp on the mast, and then used an 8 gauge copper wire for the connection. Then I installed an F-pin grounding block/antenna discharge unit right before the coax came into the house, and then ran an 8 gauge wire from the block to the grounding rod.
Don't know about the ground requirements for an attic mounted antenna.
Won't need grounding for lightning if it's indoors. Outdoors, yes. Indoors is protected by wood etc. The coax braid is tied to the TV which has its own ground, so it should be ok; if the TV lacks a ground then you could find a suitable ground (say the screw on an outlet cover) for that purpose.
Forgot to add. Don't forget about grounding. I know some years ago in my area that an antenna ground was supposed to be tied in with the house earth ground or the power meter grounding rod. My memory is not too good on that, so just do the research.
My antenna is mounted outside, so it's a magnet for lightning strike unless the static is drained off to ground. I drove a five foot grounding rod in the ground near my antenna, and then used a grounding rod clamp on the ground rod, and a grounding rod clamp on the mast, and then used an 8 gauge copper wire for the connection. Then I installed an F-pin grounding block/antenna discharge unit right before the coax came into the house, and then ran an 8 gauge wire from the block to the grounding rod.
Don't know about the ground requirements for an attic mounted antenna.
Won't need grounding for lightning if it's indoors. Outdoors, yes. Indoors is protected by wood etc. The coax braid is tied to the TV which has its own ground, so it should be ok; if the TV lacks a ground then you could find a suitable ground (say the screw on an outlet cover) for that purpose.
You can get a spool of RG6 at Home Depot/Lowes and a crimp tool, and the grounding block for low money. Use some compression fittings, I like the looks of the Belden ones. I picked up the Bell South (?) coax kit, but found the snips to not be rated for the common copper clad steel RG6 used, so piecemealing a kit with Klein snips, stripper and compression tool might be a better step up. Good snips will cleanly cut coax w/o crushing (especially if you twist the tool while cutting); a good stripper will cut outer jacket, shield and inner dielectric to the proper size, and quickly.
Little bit of liquid electrical tape shouldn't be required but should give that last bit of weatherproofing on outdoor connections.
At this point you'd be able to run coax at will. You don't have to be anal about making the coax as short as possible; but every extra foot of length is adding system loss (as is every coax splitter). So don't buy 100' premade runs when a 25' length will do, that sort of thing.
On my house I put up a cheapo TV antenna, maybe 5' long, on a 5' mast that goes into a TV rotor, which is on another 5' mast which is anchored to a 4x4 post on my deck. Just below ridgeline of my house, so I get... very little. I had a preamp for years but finally removed it when I wanted to check the coax out; I noticed one cheap TV didn't like the loss of signal but the main TV didn't care.
Little bit of liquid electrical tape shouldn't be required but should give that last bit of weatherproofing on outdoor connections.
At this point you'd be able to run coax at will. You don't have to be anal about making the coax as short as possible; but every extra foot of length is adding system loss (as is every coax splitter). So don't buy 100' premade runs when a 25' length will do, that sort of thing.
On my house I put up a cheapo TV antenna, maybe 5' long, on a 5' mast that goes into a TV rotor, which is on another 5' mast which is anchored to a 4x4 post on my deck. Just below ridgeline of my house, so I get... very little. I had a preamp for years but finally removed it when I wanted to check the coax out; I noticed one cheap TV didn't like the loss of signal but the main TV didn't care.
I started with running the RG6, which oddly says not for use within walls. I'm going to have to cut it in half and use an extension adapter to connect it to the cable that's already wired outside the garage to the tv. I wonder if the extension adapters cut reception any?
I'm still really tempted to try the cheap channel master 3010hd, but it would probably just be a waste of my time. According to AntennaWeb, a medium directional antenna with pre-amp would get half the channels I want (blue). If I wanted the other half (violet), then it needs to be a large directional antenna, but requires an amplifier and roof mounting to receive the blue channels... Either way I'm thinking the Channel Master Titan 2 CM-7777 looks like a good preamplifier (it should be since it comes in more expensive than some of the antennas I was considering haha).
I'm still really tempted to try the cheap channel master 3010hd, but it would probably just be a waste of my time. According to AntennaWeb, a medium directional antenna with pre-amp would get half the channels I want (blue). If I wanted the other half (violet), then it needs to be a large directional antenna, but requires an amplifier and roof mounting to receive the blue channels... Either way I'm thinking the Channel Master Titan 2 CM-7777 looks like a good preamplifier (it should be since it comes in more expensive than some of the antennas I was considering haha).
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