Are you really that high maintenance and soft? You're car isn't going to turn into a sauna in that small amount of time. The answer to your question is how bad do you want to find out what will happen? I'm sure if it happens it won't be pleasant. They post those do not fuel a running vehicle for a reason.
Leave a car running while refueling
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Originally Posted By: Barkleymut
Originally Posted By: whip
The OP ask what could happen. many answer, and he respond with "I don't care." The OP seems like a logical, intelligent, and mature person.
Carry on.
I asked what could happen and people said it was illegal. I don't care if it is illegal, I asked what could happen. Carry on yourself smarty.
Yeah, this. This is a technical website, not a lawyer one. The vapor recovery system and intake manifold backfire is the most plausible answer so far-- there are solenoids that open and close assuming various things the operator is doing when the car running and not running. So it could be doing a canister purge "just because" and not expect raw fuel coming in a vapor line at the time. For the record, canister purge usually happens at above idle, though my jeep tested the system a minute after a cold start at idle.
I've poured raw fuel down a briggs carb when the motor was running, it just foamed, spit, stunk, bogged, and carried on.
As for the static answers-- legit, but how is a running car less safe than an off one?
If only there were some kind of gas station where you could wait in your car, slipping the money through the window and an attendant would put gas in your tank. They could call it, "full service".
Originally Posted By: whip
The OP ask what could happen. many answer, and he respond with "I don't care." The OP seems like a logical, intelligent, and mature person.
Carry on.
I asked what could happen and people said it was illegal. I don't care if it is illegal, I asked what could happen. Carry on yourself smarty.
Yeah, this. This is a technical website, not a lawyer one. The vapor recovery system and intake manifold backfire is the most plausible answer so far-- there are solenoids that open and close assuming various things the operator is doing when the car running and not running. So it could be doing a canister purge "just because" and not expect raw fuel coming in a vapor line at the time. For the record, canister purge usually happens at above idle, though my jeep tested the system a minute after a cold start at idle.
I've poured raw fuel down a briggs carb when the motor was running, it just foamed, spit, stunk, bogged, and carried on.
As for the static answers-- legit, but how is a running car less safe than an off one?
If only there were some kind of gas station where you could wait in your car, slipping the money through the window and an attendant would put gas in your tank. They could call it, "full service".
Metal vehicle travelling through air with rubber tyres - static electricity central! Touch the vehicle with a metal object that has fuel vapours inside it and the tank vapors and you have a real chance of a fuel vapor ignition.
yep.......stop lights should be ignored too since there won't be much air flow across the condensor while stopped and the interior MIGHT get a little warmer.
Instead of asking in here, why don't you poll the other people fueling at the same time and get their opinion.....afterall, they're the others that may be at risk if any risk is involved.
Instead of asking in here, why don't you poll the other people fueling at the same time and get their opinion.....afterall, they're the others that may be at risk if any risk is involved.
Hey, I agree with RiceCake !!!
People do stupid stuff at gas pumps, I saw plenty in my gap year.
Stupid stuff is stuff that people do intentionally (willfully), like leaving a car running (it's illegal, so why do it ?), jamming the handle with a piece of wood while they go for a leak, jamming the handle with a bic lighter (seen one bloke do it twice), smoking (Oz bowsers don't have evap recovery - witnessed a tanker driver ask a bloke to butt out twice before a face full of CO2).
Leaving the car idling at the gas pump makes as much sense as leaving it unattended idling anywhere else...one part of the "accident" is there and primed, waiting for the other holes in the swiss cheese (analogy) to line up.
Not knowing any better...55gal drum on a conveyor belt bed liner in a ute was very not smart, but failure to recognise a problem... and when pointed out that there are earth leads exactly for that, are usually met with thanks.
People do stupid stuff at gas pumps, I saw plenty in my gap year.
Stupid stuff is stuff that people do intentionally (willfully), like leaving a car running (it's illegal, so why do it ?), jamming the handle with a piece of wood while they go for a leak, jamming the handle with a bic lighter (seen one bloke do it twice), smoking (Oz bowsers don't have evap recovery - witnessed a tanker driver ask a bloke to butt out twice before a face full of CO2).
Leaving the car idling at the gas pump makes as much sense as leaving it unattended idling anywhere else...one part of the "accident" is there and primed, waiting for the other holes in the swiss cheese (analogy) to line up.
Not knowing any better...55gal drum on a conveyor belt bed liner in a ute was very not smart, but failure to recognise a problem... and when pointed out that there are earth leads exactly for that, are usually met with thanks.
It's kind of funny, but I have a buddy who couldn't fill his car up for some reason unless it was running. The pump would just keep overfilling and clicking off. Something about a vent valve was bad, but not sure of the part. The car is fixed now.
1. there are gas station fires now and then from static discharge, more often in the winter, from fueling. it's a spark, and there's plenty of fuel vapor to ignite. I do recall a cigarette incident years ago in TN I think, but don't remember the details.
2. Someone above mentioned that VA is hot and humid, at least adding some support to the OP. I've lived there. It IS. And it gets wicked cold and dry in the winter. They have some extremes on both ends. But it's also perfectly bearable. To me "comfort" is a poor excuse for safety. Wear the right clothes. Roll the windows down before getting out. While the winters here are not as bad, the summers trump the mid-atlantic.
I've experienced a gasoline vapor fire. They happen instantaneously, there's no warning, no running away. You're burned before it even registers in your head that there's a fire.
Don't risk it. Please.
2. Someone above mentioned that VA is hot and humid, at least adding some support to the OP. I've lived there. It IS. And it gets wicked cold and dry in the winter. They have some extremes on both ends. But it's also perfectly bearable. To me "comfort" is a poor excuse for safety. Wear the right clothes. Roll the windows down before getting out. While the winters here are not as bad, the summers trump the mid-atlantic.
I've experienced a gasoline vapor fire. They happen instantaneously, there's no warning, no running away. You're burned before it even registers in your head that there's a fire.
Don't risk it. Please.
I kinda prefer to leave mine running, that way I can fill it to the brim a bit easier. The vibration from the engine helps settle the foam. But I think diesel is a bit different...
I get zapped too often getting out of our gasoline powered car to bother leaving it on. I think the risks are overstated, but it's pretty quick to fill up, so I just shut off (gas powered vehicles). Besides, only morons leave their cars at the pump and then go inside. Sorry, pet peeve, I've waited too many times at the pump, waiting for someone to move their vehicle so I could fill up.
Really, it doesn't take that long to fill up, and why not pay at the pump with a card? We're talking just a few minutes. If it's that important, fill up, find a parking space to leave it running.
I get zapped too often getting out of our gasoline powered car to bother leaving it on. I think the risks are overstated, but it's pretty quick to fill up, so I just shut off (gas powered vehicles). Besides, only morons leave their cars at the pump and then go inside. Sorry, pet peeve, I've waited too many times at the pump, waiting for someone to move their vehicle so I could fill up.
Really, it doesn't take that long to fill up, and why not pay at the pump with a card? We're talking just a few minutes. If it's that important, fill up, find a parking space to leave it running.
Hopefully you at least humor your wife and shut the vehicle off when she is sitting in it?
I will state the only time I ever had a vehicle roll away on me was leaving it running since I only only owned manual transmission vehicles. The parking brake was poorly adjustedI got out of wife's car(nearly brand new) as I had to run out for 30 seconds and found her brand new Legacy rolled into my WRX. At least my WRX stopped the car from rolling down the hill into a tree with our 6 month old baby in it.
She and I normally leave vehicles in gear along with pulling ebrake up.
I will state the only time I ever had a vehicle roll away on me was leaving it running since I only only owned manual transmission vehicles. The parking brake was poorly adjustedI got out of wife's car(nearly brand new) as I had to run out for 30 seconds and found her brand new Legacy rolled into my WRX. At least my WRX stopped the car from rolling down the hill into a tree with our 6 month old baby in it.
She and I normally leave vehicles in gear along with pulling ebrake up.
Here in South Florida, I refuel with the engine running and the AC on "full blast" all the time. And, I'm certainly not the only one doing this.
I can't see any significant risk. The gas filler is 15 feet away from the cat-cons (which are mounted high and tight against the exhaust manifold) and coil on plug ignition systems, buried deep under the valve cover pose no risk.
It's humid here, so static electricity is not a problem.
I can't see any significant risk. The gas filler is 15 feet away from the cat-cons (which are mounted high and tight against the exhaust manifold) and coil on plug ignition systems, buried deep under the valve cover pose no risk.
It's humid here, so static electricity is not a problem.
I let my car run over 50% of my fill-ups. A nasty spark getting out of the car with others filling up around me has never caused an issue (the fumes are simply too diffuse), the temp of the cat. is still going to be ripping hot whether I shut my car off or not, and the filler nozzle is grounded so the potential between the pump and the car is effectively 0. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's not a good, safe habit to be in, I just don't see a huge risk.
Oh and it takes longer than the duration of a fill-up for an evap. CEL to register.
Oh and it takes longer than the duration of a fill-up for an evap. CEL to register.
Originally Posted By: bvance554
Are you really that high maintenance and soft? You're car isn't going to turn into a sauna in that small amount of time. The answer to your question is how bad do you want to find out what will happen? I'm sure if it happens it won't be pleasant. They post those do not fuel a running vehicle for a reason.
Yes, I am soooo high maintenance that I drive a 2004 Ion. I worked as a landscaper for 8 years, broke a finger a few times and still finished the day so I do not consider myself soft. Now back to the original question that you completely missed. How is this dangerous? I can read, I know there are signs. There are also signs all over the roads that are called speed limit signs. During my trip up I-95 very very few people followed the rules listed on those signs, even though I agree they are there for a purpose. I just want to know what that purpose is. The only thing so far that would convince me it is even the tiniest bit dangerous is if someone ran into your car while it was still running and you were not behind the wheel to shut it off and gas could be flowing on the ground.
Are you really that high maintenance and soft? You're car isn't going to turn into a sauna in that small amount of time. The answer to your question is how bad do you want to find out what will happen? I'm sure if it happens it won't be pleasant. They post those do not fuel a running vehicle for a reason.
Yes, I am soooo high maintenance that I drive a 2004 Ion. I worked as a landscaper for 8 years, broke a finger a few times and still finished the day so I do not consider myself soft. Now back to the original question that you completely missed. How is this dangerous? I can read, I know there are signs. There are also signs all over the roads that are called speed limit signs. During my trip up I-95 very very few people followed the rules listed on those signs, even though I agree they are there for a purpose. I just want to know what that purpose is. The only thing so far that would convince me it is even the tiniest bit dangerous is if someone ran into your car while it was still running and you were not behind the wheel to shut it off and gas could be flowing on the ground.
Originally Posted By: Barkleymut
The only thing so far that would convince me it is even the tiniest bit dangerous is if someone ran into your car while it was still running and you were not behind the wheel to shut it off and gas could be flowing on the ground.
Well if you had a stick shift and left it running with the e-brake on you'd have two wheels locked instead of two wheels locked plus the compression of the engine in first gear. Still, it's flat ground, and if someone's driving into your car while you're pumping gas, that collision is going to be dangerous regardless of your engine's status.
I'm going to stand out on a ledge and say these restrictions came out when self-serve gas pumping came out in 1980 to fight oil price inflation. Some fire marshalls sat around and said, okay, we need to enforce some rules... like smoking, and engines off. Back then automatic transmission linkages went out of adjustment more and idle speeds were manually set, so cars spontaneously jumping into gear and taking off happened occasionally. Similarly Oregon and NJ don't let people pump their own gas, ostensibly for safety.
I bought a car with a battery so flat I had to jump it when warm after I bought gas for it. I knew going in I'd need a jump, planned for it, and shut it down.
The only thing so far that would convince me it is even the tiniest bit dangerous is if someone ran into your car while it was still running and you were not behind the wheel to shut it off and gas could be flowing on the ground.
Well if you had a stick shift and left it running with the e-brake on you'd have two wheels locked instead of two wheels locked plus the compression of the engine in first gear. Still, it's flat ground, and if someone's driving into your car while you're pumping gas, that collision is going to be dangerous regardless of your engine's status.
I'm going to stand out on a ledge and say these restrictions came out when self-serve gas pumping came out in 1980 to fight oil price inflation. Some fire marshalls sat around and said, okay, we need to enforce some rules... like smoking, and engines off. Back then automatic transmission linkages went out of adjustment more and idle speeds were manually set, so cars spontaneously jumping into gear and taking off happened occasionally. Similarly Oregon and NJ don't let people pump their own gas, ostensibly for safety.
I bought a car with a battery so flat I had to jump it when warm after I bought gas for it. I knew going in I'd need a jump, planned for it, and shut it down.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
I'm going to stand out on a ledge and say these restrictions came out when self-serve gas pumping came out in 1980 to fight oil price inflation.
Didn't self-serve exist prior to then? I was kinda in diapers then and not really observing...
I'm going to stand out on a ledge and say these restrictions came out when self-serve gas pumping came out in 1980 to fight oil price inflation.
Didn't self-serve exist prior to then? I was kinda in diapers then and not really observing...
I always leave it running.
I've never had an evap code.
I've had many gas stations and still have a C-Store. Vapor retention in some form is now mandatory in all states, afaik, ranging from simple to $$$
All my pumps say shut the engine off. I doubt anyone does.
Nothing has ever gone kerblamo.
Worst I've had happen was a low grade moron that cut a corner to avoid a stop sign, ran over a gas pump, and dragged pieces of the pump for blocks until it killed his car.
I've never had an evap code.
I've had many gas stations and still have a C-Store. Vapor retention in some form is now mandatory in all states, afaik, ranging from simple to $$$
All my pumps say shut the engine off. I doubt anyone does.
Nothing has ever gone kerblamo.
Worst I've had happen was a low grade moron that cut a corner to avoid a stop sign, ran over a gas pump, and dragged pieces of the pump for blocks until it killed his car.
Oh yes, I was an attendant at self servs as a teen ager in the 70's. I would pump gas for women and geezers, though, that was sort of an unwritten rule, it was only self serv for able bodied men.
They were around for at least a decade before that in these parts.
Gas was pretty volatile back then, nowadays, not much at all.
edit: back in those days, it was very common for the fuel filler to be under the license plate, near the exhaust outlet. With the high volatility of those fuels, zero vapor retention equipment, and close proximity to the exhaust, it was a reasonable safety precaution to turn those things off.
Cars and fuels are just completely different today.
They were around for at least a decade before that in these parts.
Gas was pretty volatile back then, nowadays, not much at all.
edit: back in those days, it was very common for the fuel filler to be under the license plate, near the exhaust outlet. With the high volatility of those fuels, zero vapor retention equipment, and close proximity to the exhaust, it was a reasonable safety precaution to turn those things off.
Cars and fuels are just completely different today.
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Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: eljefino
I'm going to stand out on a ledge and say these restrictions came out when self-serve gas pumping came out in 1980 to fight oil price inflation.
Didn't self-serve exist prior to then? I was kinda in diapers then and not really observing...
Yes and no. There were stations but nothing like what was spurred by the oil shocks. I remember when I was a kid we had 3 self-serve stations in my little town of 16k people. And even those had someone to sell tires, belts, and oil in a pinch...
Originally Posted By: eljefino
I'm going to stand out on a ledge and say these restrictions came out when self-serve gas pumping came out in 1980 to fight oil price inflation.
Didn't self-serve exist prior to then? I was kinda in diapers then and not really observing...
Yes and no. There were stations but nothing like what was spurred by the oil shocks. I remember when I was a kid we had 3 self-serve stations in my little town of 16k people. And even those had someone to sell tires, belts, and oil in a pinch...
When I lived in Elizabeth City, NC in the late 1970's, there were gas pumps that you inserted dollar bills into and pumped your own gas. I thought that was a pretty cool idea. I would pump 1 dollar at a time into my old 1964 Volkswagen, and it only took a few dollars to fill it up.
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