Just had to remove FRAM XG4967!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Are the gray Frams pretty good filters? The Nissan ones are around $7 now,and the gray Frams at Walmart are only $4.
$4 sounds too cheap for a Tough Guard, generally they are now ~$5.50 at Wally. If you can get them for $4, and you only shop Wally, then not bad and better than the orange can.

That said, if it were me I'd go to Kmart and pay just a little more and get a Pure One, or a little less and get a Puro Classic, but that's just me.
 
I would love to put this to rest arco dude. I am the tech manager at Fram. I would be more than happy to have your filter tested either at our labs or an independent lab and post the results. If your credetials are what you say they are, you must be aware that all variable valve timing systems that use hydralics for actuation are very sensitive to oil flow and pressure. Why on earth would you use an oil that is not recommended by toyota? If you want to send the filter, drain it, bag it and mail to Honeywell, C/OJay Buckley 234 east maple rd, troy mi 48083
 
Hmmm.
35.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Motorking
I would love to put this to rest arco dude. I am the tech manager at Fram. I would be more than happy to have your filter tested either at our labs or an independent lab and post the results. If your credetials are what you say they are, you must be aware that all variable valve timing systems that use hydralics for actuation are very sensitive to oil flow and pressure. Why on earth would you use an oil that is not recommended by toyota? If you want to send the filter, drain it, bag it and mail to Honeywell, C/OJay Buckley 234 east maple rd, troy mi 48083


ha ha ha........NICE! didn't see that coming.
 
Last edited:
motorking, maybe you can address some of the quality issues many members of this forum have experienced with fram filters. the extended guards are well regarded but the extra/tough guards seem to be many peoples last choice. also it seems to be pretty common to see cut open frams with internal failures and just plain weak design.
 
Originally Posted By: mopar_monkey
motorking, maybe you can address some of the quality issues many members of this forum have experienced with fram filters. the extended guards are well regarded but the extra/tough guards seem to be many peoples last choice. also it seems to be pretty common to see cut open frams with internal failures and just plain weak design.


Spend some time looking for the PHOTOS of the Fram failures and post those links HERE.

Then maybe he could address them...

Bill
 
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: mopar_monkey
motorking, maybe you can address some of the quality issues many members of this forum have experienced with fram filters. the extended guards are well regarded but the extra/tough guards seem to be many peoples last choice. also it seems to be pretty common to see cut open frams with internal failures and just plain weak design.


Spend some time looking for the PHOTOS of the Fram failures and post those links HERE.

Then maybe he could address them...

Bill


tg failure
fram
ph8

if you want more i can find some additional posts and or pics.
 
Originally Posted By: mopar_monkey
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: mopar_monkey
motorking, maybe you can address some of the quality issues many members of this forum have experienced with fram filters. the extended guards are well regarded but the extra/tough guards seem to be many peoples last choice. also it seems to be pretty common to see cut open frams with internal failures and just plain weak design.


Spend some time looking for the PHOTOS of the Fram failures and post those links HERE.

Then maybe he could address them...

Bill


tg failure
fram
ph8

if you want more i can find some additional posts and or pics.


Looks like you NEED to read the threads too. Not just look at the photos.

Its also interesting that one of the threads I could not see any photos. The other 2 are from the same member. And one of those thread was a filter that you can not get.

Bill
 
yes, i posted two of the from the same poster because after i created the link to the first one i found the second with additional pics, what difference does it make if the other is a filter number you can't get, do you honestly think it is constructed any differently then others in that product line? i read the posts but regardless of any other factors or other posters opinions the pics show the lack of quality in these filters. also i can see the pics on every link.
 
So you are ignoring that the number 1 filter in the market, all the GOOD photos of Fram filters on the site, NO ONE with dead engine on the site from one and all the high miles long life engines that HAVE run Fram?

Interesting...

Bill
 
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
VVT and resulting power is fine with the Bosch filter in place. SAME oil, SAME oil level, SAME ambient temps. I dont have time to make a science experimant out of this. If the filter doesnt work in the application I 86 it. Those whom own the same engine might find this info useful. Anyone wnat a slighltly used fram XG4967?


I'd take it if I didn't live so far away. That's what I use on my lawn mower! Haven't noticed any differences in power since switching from the John Deere branded filter, though as far as I know, my mower's Kawasaki engine doesn't have VVT.

DSC_0830.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
So you are ignoring that the number 1 filter in the market, all the GOOD photos of Fram filters on the site, NO ONE with dead engine on the site from one and all the high miles long life engines that HAVE run Fram?

Interesting...

Bill


no i simply asked him to address some of the quality concerns that have been raised on this site, i was in no way saying that fram filters are bad, i only showed the pics to show that in some cases these quality issues are legitimate. since there is so much anti fram attitude on this site i thought he may be able to put some to rest, can you say that there are as many issues with any other single brand of filters as there are with fram? or that they are as well constructed as other filters? the only failure I've ever had was a fram extra guard, i had one on a cherokee and the media came apart and formed a large clump inside of the filter, didn't do any damage but i feel with some better quality control this would have never happened.
 
Hmm, push mower with a pressure oiling system..........I like it.

Back to the topic, I used to work at a walmart TLE(2 years) we used only Fram orange cans and not once did we have a comeback with a oil filter issue. They may not be the best filter, I would call them "adequate".

FWIW I use purolator.
 
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite

Simple logic worked this time - I suppose it depends if you are RESULTS focused or just like to make flowery powerpoint presentations
wink.gif



I know this post is a week or so old, but really? Simple logic? You've failed at it (either deductive or inductive) in this case.

Lets go back to Logic 101:

Agrugement (deductive):

Given premise A
&
Given premise B (and any other number of premises)

We arrive at conclusion X.

If the conclusion follows inescapably from Premises A & B (& C, etc) the argument is valid. If all premises are true then the argument is sound.

At the very least you've got a problem with your arguement being sound and likely also with validity.

Your arguemet is essentially:

You install Fram filter.
Filter is incorrectly designed for this application.
You experience a performance issue.
Therefore:
The filter is causing the performance issue.

Premise A is true.
Premise B may or may not be true (and likely isn't).
Premise C may or may not be true as we have no verifiable measurements other than a butt dyno. Even assuming it is true your conclusion does follow inescapably from the premises.

So you've got an argument here that is at least unsound and I'd also say invalid as your conclusion is not inescapably led to by the premises.

Your "logic" doesn't even make a good inductive argument where instead of the conclusion having to be inescapable it only has to be "with a high likelihood".

You've got so many other variables out of your control (not to mention using a thicker oil that may or may not affect pumping losses and VVT) along with the question of if there was an actual performance issue (since no actual scientific measurements were done using a scan gauge, oil pressure gauge or well anything other than a butt dyno).

You also mentioned classical Greek thinking (aka Aristotelean logic - which you failed at in your argument) in another post. Please. Classic Greek reasoning had nothing on the scientific method that arose out of the Early Modern Europe period (circa mid 1500s).
 
The Greeks and Early Modern Europeans didn't have to worry about oil filters.
lol.gif
grin2.gif
 
I am willing to bet we do not hear from him again, I have seen many of these Fram "engineers" troll a post then never replay back again. I think maybe This happens to them..

50.gif
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
The Greeks and Early Modern Europeans didn't have to worry about oil filters.
lol.gif
grin2.gif


Yeah just stuff like determining planetary motion and figuring out a working model for the solar system all without the use of electronic or mechanical calculating devices. Not quite the heavy lifting involved in working with oil filters.
lol.gif


The Greeks didn't get that right and instead Aristotle invented the "prime mover" as imparting constant angular velocity to the outermost "sphere" of his solar system.

Ptolemy invented "epicycles" to explain away explain way the difference between the actual observed motion and their models placing epicycles upon epicycles much like Arco has invented numerous issues with rod knock, VVT issues, and now Fram filters.

Interestingly enough the ones that got it right (or at least as close to right as technology allowed) used (surprise) the scientific method, combining the work of Copernicus, Kepler, Brahe, Galileo, and of course Newton.

Bah! Who needs it. Arco can reason and logic his way to the root of the problem without the need for such dalliances as empirical evidence.
 
BTW I'm curious as to all the "trouble" Arco has with his vehicles. Anyone got any links to said posts or could give a brief explanation?
 
Originally Posted By: buickman50401
BTW I'm curious as to all the "trouble" Arco has with his vehicles. Anyone got any links to said posts or could give a brief explanation?


Arco's posts.

Just scan through and see his posts. Good Luck!
48.gif
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top