received a few jugs from my neighbour,and it has the Antiicing additive in it,If that is alcohol,with it preignite??
Jet A1 with anti icing additive in a new diesel
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And your going to put this into a Diesel engine?
does that make it a similar spec to JP-8?
the military runs diesels on jet fuel. the only benefit is supply reasons, not performance.
the military runs diesels on jet fuel. the only benefit is supply reasons, not performance.
jet A is kerosene and jet B is 70% kerosene and 30% white gas,so Its the antiice alcohol I'm worrying about re detonation.
Both Jet A and Jet A1 are essentially 100% kerosene. They both only differ from JP-8 in that they do not contain the three additives that make Jet A1 become JP8. The three additives are the fuel system icing inhibitor, the corrosion inhibitor and the static charge dissipator. Now the military ( both the Army and the Marines) have been using JP8 or in some instances Jet A1 since 1990 as Jet A1 was used extensively during the first Gulf War. No problems. Now in this last and current war, the heavy and continuous duty under high temperatures has caused those engines equipped with fuel lubricated fuel injection pumps to have some hot starting problems and wear due to the lowered viscosity and absence of a good lubricity enhancer additive. These have been the HMMWVs (aka Hummers) to be experiencing some performance problems.
Jet A is also JP4. the JP4 is about 30% white gas and the rest super refined kerosene and an anti ice we call pristine. (anti water and anti jell) We now use JP8 because it has a higher flash point and it works better in military deisel trucks. JP4 works in deisel trucks but it may burn too hot for some. The military went to JP8 to use one fuel for every vehicle. I understand JP8 is more like Jet B. All kerosene except for the anti ice aditive and no fuel jelling at cold tempatures. Other than the level of filtering and quality control, JP8 can be used in helicopters or trucks. One fuel means fewer logistical problems.
"Jet A is also JP4." This is not correct. The industry equivalent of JP4 is JET B. Both JET A and JET A1 are both kerosnene base fuels.
"We now use JP8 because it has a higher flash point and it works better in military deisel trucks." The main reason for the military switching to JP8/JET A1 was due to the waxing problems that the Abrams tanks were having once deployed in German in the early 1980s. To remedy this, they had to blend in 50% kerosene or JP8/JP5 which then became a logistical problem. Further testing revealed that diesel engines as well as turbine engines could perform acceptably on the kerosene based jet fuels. Then the switch was made.
"JP4 works in deisel trucks but it may burn too hot for some." Wrong, as JP4 typically does not have sufficiently high cetane quality, is too volatile, and therefore cannot be used in certain diesel engines. It worked fine in multifuel engines, but the military phased these out a long time ago.
"I understand JP8 is more like Jet B." Wrong, JP8 is very similar to JET A1 except that it dos not contain the three mandatory additives that convert JET A1 to JP8.
"We now use JP8 because it has a higher flash point and it works better in military deisel trucks." The main reason for the military switching to JP8/JET A1 was due to the waxing problems that the Abrams tanks were having once deployed in German in the early 1980s. To remedy this, they had to blend in 50% kerosene or JP8/JP5 which then became a logistical problem. Further testing revealed that diesel engines as well as turbine engines could perform acceptably on the kerosene based jet fuels. Then the switch was made.
"JP4 works in deisel trucks but it may burn too hot for some." Wrong, as JP4 typically does not have sufficiently high cetane quality, is too volatile, and therefore cannot be used in certain diesel engines. It worked fine in multifuel engines, but the military phased these out a long time ago.
"I understand JP8 is more like Jet B." Wrong, JP8 is very similar to JET A1 except that it dos not contain the three mandatory additives that convert JET A1 to JP8.
Hello Mojo
I'm not trying to flame anyone but as a UH1 crewchief we used JP4 for years. As a crew chief we either fueled the bird or we were responsible to see the bird refueled. Every where we flew and bought commercial fuel (off post) it had to be Jet A with anti ice in it.
Jet B was an alternate fuel just like unleaded gas is an alternate fuel. If we could only get JetB we had to have the anti ice added. It would come in a spray can they attatched to the fuel nozzle and it sprayed into the tank. The pilots got nervous if we had to pump Jet B or did not put in the anti ice. We rarely bought Jet B. I can think of one time and we only put in 50 gallons. Enough to get back to the hanger.
Jet A and JP4 appeared to visually be the same and smelled the same. Any that was spilled appeared to evaporate the same. Jet B smelled and looked more like what I know as JP8. Could it be JP5 that's possible. JP 8 smells and evaporates similar to Diesel and even has a more yellow color while JP4 and Jet A were more clear. There is nothing like the smell of JP4 at start up. (almost sweet) JP8 smells more like a deisel truck at startup and doesn't light off as quick in really cold weather. I understand that Jet A1 is the newer version of JetA and we could not use it. Jet A1 was an Airforce mix and had not been approved for use in the Huey's. I don't know if it's ok for Blackhawks.
One advantage of JP8 over JP4 is we got more thermel BTU's out of it and we got a few more minutes of flight time out of the JP8. It also has a higher flash point and slower evaporation making it harder to start a fire in case of a crash. We could never light it with just a match, it took a road flare to light it if it was in a bucket. We were never told about problems with the M-1 tank and fuel system wax.. I was out of the military for 8 years from the 2nd half of the 1970's to 1985. It's my understanding they use de certified lycoming T-53 engines the same engine that was in the Huey. Our understanding is the Army wanted to go to one fuel and JP8 was the compromise. The only concern when we made the switch from JP4 to JP8 was the flight idle setting. Some needed adjusting up while others needed no transition adjustments.
I'm not trying to flame anyone but as a UH1 crewchief we used JP4 for years. As a crew chief we either fueled the bird or we were responsible to see the bird refueled. Every where we flew and bought commercial fuel (off post) it had to be Jet A with anti ice in it.
Jet B was an alternate fuel just like unleaded gas is an alternate fuel. If we could only get JetB we had to have the anti ice added. It would come in a spray can they attatched to the fuel nozzle and it sprayed into the tank. The pilots got nervous if we had to pump Jet B or did not put in the anti ice. We rarely bought Jet B. I can think of one time and we only put in 50 gallons. Enough to get back to the hanger.
Jet A and JP4 appeared to visually be the same and smelled the same. Any that was spilled appeared to evaporate the same. Jet B smelled and looked more like what I know as JP8. Could it be JP5 that's possible. JP 8 smells and evaporates similar to Diesel and even has a more yellow color while JP4 and Jet A were more clear. There is nothing like the smell of JP4 at start up. (almost sweet) JP8 smells more like a deisel truck at startup and doesn't light off as quick in really cold weather. I understand that Jet A1 is the newer version of JetA and we could not use it. Jet A1 was an Airforce mix and had not been approved for use in the Huey's. I don't know if it's ok for Blackhawks.
One advantage of JP8 over JP4 is we got more thermel BTU's out of it and we got a few more minutes of flight time out of the JP8. It also has a higher flash point and slower evaporation making it harder to start a fire in case of a crash. We could never light it with just a match, it took a road flare to light it if it was in a bucket. We were never told about problems with the M-1 tank and fuel system wax.. I was out of the military for 8 years from the 2nd half of the 1970's to 1985. It's my understanding they use de certified lycoming T-53 engines the same engine that was in the Huey. Our understanding is the Army wanted to go to one fuel and JP8 was the compromise. The only concern when we made the switch from JP4 to JP8 was the flight idle setting. Some needed adjusting up while others needed no transition adjustments.
For a little more history, the Air Force began its changeover from JP4 to JP8 in about 1986 with the Army then going to its single fuel on the battlefield policy (i.e., JP8 being used in both is diesel powered ground equipment and aircraft) in the earlly 1990s.
Now, JP4/JET B is and has been typicaly a blend of 30-50% naphtha/gasoline in kerosene. With that amount of volatile material, its flash point is well below 0degC whereas JP8/JET A/JET A1 all have a flash point minimum set at 100degC. JP5 which is a Navy fuel has a flash point minimum set at 140degC. Since JP4/JET B have that amount of volatile components present (i.e., naphtha), you would certainly expect to see it tend to evaporate more quickly than any of the kerosene fuels.
Now, JP4/JET B is and has been typicaly a blend of 30-50% naphtha/gasoline in kerosene. With that amount of volatile material, its flash point is well below 0degC whereas JP8/JET A/JET A1 all have a flash point minimum set at 100degC. JP5 which is a Navy fuel has a flash point minimum set at 140degC. Since JP4/JET B have that amount of volatile components present (i.e., naphtha), you would certainly expect to see it tend to evaporate more quickly than any of the kerosene fuels.
Seems some of the comments coming back from OIF is that the "one fuel forward" policy was not really thought through very well...
I have heard of some real maintenance problems using JP-8 in Hummers. Many maintainers are blaming JP-8 due to lubricity issues compared with straight Diesel...
I have heard of some real maintenance problems using JP-8 in Hummers. Many maintainers are blaming JP-8 due to lubricity issues compared with straight Diesel...
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