I like when things are kept simple. Which of these products would you choose, based on what you are shown here?
I've Become a Ballistol Advocate.
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Originally Posted By: billt460
Does this mean they can't lubricate your weapon? Of course not. But the point is why choose them when there is a product that performs so much better?
At least we are arguing about lubrication here..lol. I would still like to see how a mixture of good 'ol ATF/75W-90 mixture compares to WS
Does this mean they can't lubricate your weapon? Of course not. But the point is why choose them when there is a product that performs so much better?
At least we are arguing about lubrication here..lol. I would still like to see how a mixture of good 'ol ATF/75W-90 mixture compares to WS
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Originally Posted By: Al
I would still like to see how a mixture of good 'ol ATF/75W-90 mixture compares to WS
E-Mail George Fennel and request it. That's how most of these tests are conducted and put on You Tube.
I would still like to see how a mixture of good 'ol ATF/75W-90 mixture compares to WS
E-Mail George Fennel and request it. That's how most of these tests are conducted and put on You Tube.
Ballistol has been on the market well over 100 years-as has 3-in-1 oil.
I'd venture to guess that the majority of the guns in my collection have been cleaned with Hoppes and lubed with 3-in-1 for a majority of their life.
To me, oil on a gun serves primarily as a rust preventative and has a secondary function of helping to clean. I use standard lithium automotive grease on "sliding" parts like revolver actions and semi-auto slides.
About the only parts that get oil for lubrication are the cylinder on a revolver(the crane and the ejector) primarily because in my experience those parts will foul quickly with grease. Since I regularly renew the oil on these parts(and would regardless of what I'm using), I've found that pretty much anything works well provided that I take the time to get all the old congealed [censored] out. On a DA revolver, I typically remove the cylinder every couple of cleanings anyway to give everything a thorough wipe-down.
And, as far as a rust preventative, an oily rag with some 3-in-1 on it works as well as anything. The only thing I take any special precaution with is removing wood grips and getting a good application of oil on them, as these are a known rust spot.
BTW, I have a lot of recycled LaBelle oil bottle that get used both for gun oil and for bearing oil/cutting fluid on my watch lathe(although both are the same thing-3-in-1). They work great
I'd venture to guess that the majority of the guns in my collection have been cleaned with Hoppes and lubed with 3-in-1 for a majority of their life.
To me, oil on a gun serves primarily as a rust preventative and has a secondary function of helping to clean. I use standard lithium automotive grease on "sliding" parts like revolver actions and semi-auto slides.
About the only parts that get oil for lubrication are the cylinder on a revolver(the crane and the ejector) primarily because in my experience those parts will foul quickly with grease. Since I regularly renew the oil on these parts(and would regardless of what I'm using), I've found that pretty much anything works well provided that I take the time to get all the old congealed [censored] out. On a DA revolver, I typically remove the cylinder every couple of cleanings anyway to give everything a thorough wipe-down.
And, as far as a rust preventative, an oily rag with some 3-in-1 on it works as well as anything. The only thing I take any special precaution with is removing wood grips and getting a good application of oil on them, as these are a known rust spot.
BTW, I have a lot of recycled LaBelle oil bottle that get used both for gun oil and for bearing oil/cutting fluid on my watch lathe(although both are the same thing-3-in-1). They work great
Triple_Se7en
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3 In One oil does NOT displace moisture/water. A good rust inhibitor mandates water displacement.
I would never use 3 In One inside my gun barrels. You are lucky you haven't had problems.
I would never use 3 In One inside my gun barrels. You are lucky you haven't had problems.
Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
3 In One oil does NOT displace moisture/water. A good rust inhibitor mandates water displacement.
I would never use 3 In One inside my gun barrels. You are lucky you haven't had problems.
And it tends to gum up after a while....but so does Ballistol, but it takes a LONG time for it to happen.
3 In One oil does NOT displace moisture/water. A good rust inhibitor mandates water displacement.
I would never use 3 In One inside my gun barrels. You are lucky you haven't had problems.
And it tends to gum up after a while....but so does Ballistol, but it takes a LONG time for it to happen.
Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
3 In One oil does NOT displace moisture/water. A good rust inhibitor mandates water displacement.
I would never use 3 In One inside my gun barrels. You are lucky you haven't had problems.
I have some that have seen virtually nothing but 3-in-1 for over 100 years and show no rust inside or outside of the barrel.
Back in the day, there weren't wonder lubes but properly cared for guns still didn't rust.
3 In One oil does NOT displace moisture/water. A good rust inhibitor mandates water displacement.
I would never use 3 In One inside my gun barrels. You are lucky you haven't had problems.
I have some that have seen virtually nothing but 3-in-1 for over 100 years and show no rust inside or outside of the barrel.
Back in the day, there weren't wonder lubes but properly cared for guns still didn't rust.
Originally Posted By: john_pifer
(I do believe in using an oil with a little higher viscosity in the rails of a tightly-fitted gun like my Dan Wesson 1911. Right now I'm using the oil that DW supplied with the gun...which actually feels and smells suspiciously like motor oil. When it runs out I'll be using M1, as I use that in my truck and always have some around.)
Nothing wrong with using motor oil, especially a fine synthetic.
I have personally started using Amsoil 10w-30 on everything, and haven't been having the "burn off" issues I was having with oils like CLP that just disappear off gas rings and such.
Also, the Amsoil has basically no smell?!? Some motor oils do, so make sure you like the smell of the M1. The M1 would no doubt serve you well though.
Bought a gallon of the Amsoil 10w-30 several years ago for $20 and still have about 3/4 left, lol! I just keep it in a cool, dry place and shake it before filling my pint size sprayer.
(I do believe in using an oil with a little higher viscosity in the rails of a tightly-fitted gun like my Dan Wesson 1911. Right now I'm using the oil that DW supplied with the gun...which actually feels and smells suspiciously like motor oil. When it runs out I'll be using M1, as I use that in my truck and always have some around.)
Nothing wrong with using motor oil, especially a fine synthetic.
I have personally started using Amsoil 10w-30 on everything, and haven't been having the "burn off" issues I was having with oils like CLP that just disappear off gas rings and such.
Also, the Amsoil has basically no smell?!? Some motor oils do, so make sure you like the smell of the M1. The M1 would no doubt serve you well though.
Bought a gallon of the Amsoil 10w-30 several years ago for $20 and still have about 3/4 left, lol! I just keep it in a cool, dry place and shake it before filling my pint size sprayer.
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
And it tends to gum up after a while....but so does Ballistol, but it takes a LONG time for it to happen.
I have to disagree with this one. My henry survival rifle was sprayed down heavily with Ballistol after it was cleaned and put away in my vehicle for about 3 years. I have check on it recently and the Ballistol does dry to a light film but it is a very slick, almost waxy type of feeling. It is in no way sticky, gummy or would stop the gun from working. Also, any type of friction or agitation instantly turns the Ballistol liquid and runny again. One of Ballistol's website has a report of a container of Ballistol being found with the cap off for several decades and the Ballistol was still usable once it was discovered.
On another note, here is a pretty good page about Ballistol with alot of information:
https://www.expeditionexchange.com/ballistol/
And it tends to gum up after a while....but so does Ballistol, but it takes a LONG time for it to happen.
I have to disagree with this one. My henry survival rifle was sprayed down heavily with Ballistol after it was cleaned and put away in my vehicle for about 3 years. I have check on it recently and the Ballistol does dry to a light film but it is a very slick, almost waxy type of feeling. It is in no way sticky, gummy or would stop the gun from working. Also, any type of friction or agitation instantly turns the Ballistol liquid and runny again. One of Ballistol's website has a report of a container of Ballistol being found with the cap off for several decades and the Ballistol was still usable once it was discovered.
On another note, here is a pretty good page about Ballistol with alot of information:
https://www.expeditionexchange.com/ballistol/
Well I have a couple mausers that had Ballistol on them for around 3 to 4 years in a safe and it DID gum up on them. I used the non aerosol Ballistol. Maybe that or your difference in environment was a factor.
But was your result a sticky, gummy, residue that was not slick and did not wipe off easily? I understand it does dry a little over time but I wonder if our definition of "gum up" is the same?
Originally Posted By: AMC
But was your result a sticky, gummy, residue that was not slick and did not wipe off easily? I understand it does dry a little over time but I wonder if our definition of "gum up" is the same?
I think you answered yourself when you said "gummy". Yes it was a drag inducing varnish like residue by then. It rust proofed the plain steel bolt wonderfully. I just had to wipe it off with a bit of solvent and apply some fresh lube.
But was your result a sticky, gummy, residue that was not slick and did not wipe off easily? I understand it does dry a little over time but I wonder if our definition of "gum up" is the same?
I think you answered yourself when you said "gummy". Yes it was a drag inducing varnish like residue by then. It rust proofed the plain steel bolt wonderfully. I just had to wipe it off with a bit of solvent and apply some fresh lube.
Interesting - I have never been able to get that result with Ballistol. The residue I get from ballistol is very slick paste, almost like a very thin layer of Vaseline on the parts. It wipes off easily and is slicker than something like lithium grease which can be very sticky.
Another nock against Ballistol that you will hear is that it turns gunky when it is exposed to heat. There are various tests on the internet where Ballistol and other gun lubes get baked in an oven to see how they hold up. Ballistol turns black and pastey but it is a very slick, pastey residue that still lubricates very well. Not really bad performance in that type of test if you ask me.
Another nock against Ballistol that you will hear is that it turns gunky when it is exposed to heat. There are various tests on the internet where Ballistol and other gun lubes get baked in an oven to see how they hold up. Ballistol turns black and pastey but it is a very slick, pastey residue that still lubricates very well. Not really bad performance in that type of test if you ask me.
Originally Posted By: SOHCman
Nothing wrong with using motor oil, especially a fine synthetic.
Do you want it to mix with water or protect it from moisture? Gear lube sheds water, motor oil will absorb it.
I bet if you test all gun oils by mixing them with water and then shaking them up they separate from the water. Motor oil won't.
I will do that later today with Breakfree and FP-10. The problem may be that CLP's do mix with water. we'll see.
Nothing wrong with using motor oil, especially a fine synthetic.
Do you want it to mix with water or protect it from moisture? Gear lube sheds water, motor oil will absorb it.
I bet if you test all gun oils by mixing them with water and then shaking them up they separate from the water. Motor oil won't.
I will do that later today with Breakfree and FP-10. The problem may be that CLP's do mix with water. we'll see.
My experience varies.
Frankly I have not found Ballistol to be good at anything and bad at most. It definitely gets nasty gummy and balls up. The aromatic stench is horrendous and it makes me nearly physically ill. It's not a particularly good cleaner, and it's a worse preservative. It certainly doesn't lubricate well in the cold, and in wet it seems to attract water, well at least holds water. I purchased a pour can, and when it was failing as a lube, I used it up as a cleaner and didn't have the urge to buy more.
I mix Hoppe's and Kroil for my everyday cleaner. It's not a miracle product, but it does a good job. It cleans way better than any gun oil. I actually like M-Pro7 as a cleaner, but the expense is just too much. I agree it cleans decently but must be thoroughly removed. IMHO.
I do use Amsoil silicone spray for blowing out deep crevices and such when only field stripping and quick cleaning. I will use WD-40 as a flood lubricant for cleaning other lubes out. I remove the WD-40 and follow up with a proper lubricant or preservative.
For lubricants I follow the gun manufacturer's general recommendations. I have tons of lubes, so I try to match the viscosity to weather if gun is in frequent use. I use Militec if I want dry lubed areas. For just super light oil (think slide internals) I will use Amsoil Regular (light)Metal Protector. I also will use Frog-Lube as a lubricant. In the summer I will use a little synthetic grease on rails.
For storage, I use Eezox or Corrosion-X. Both are great. Neither is a great lubricant.
This is a fun read: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=751408
Frankly I have not found Ballistol to be good at anything and bad at most. It definitely gets nasty gummy and balls up. The aromatic stench is horrendous and it makes me nearly physically ill. It's not a particularly good cleaner, and it's a worse preservative. It certainly doesn't lubricate well in the cold, and in wet it seems to attract water, well at least holds water. I purchased a pour can, and when it was failing as a lube, I used it up as a cleaner and didn't have the urge to buy more.
I mix Hoppe's and Kroil for my everyday cleaner. It's not a miracle product, but it does a good job. It cleans way better than any gun oil. I actually like M-Pro7 as a cleaner, but the expense is just too much. I agree it cleans decently but must be thoroughly removed. IMHO.
I do use Amsoil silicone spray for blowing out deep crevices and such when only field stripping and quick cleaning. I will use WD-40 as a flood lubricant for cleaning other lubes out. I remove the WD-40 and follow up with a proper lubricant or preservative.
For lubricants I follow the gun manufacturer's general recommendations. I have tons of lubes, so I try to match the viscosity to weather if gun is in frequent use. I use Militec if I want dry lubed areas. For just super light oil (think slide internals) I will use Amsoil Regular (light)Metal Protector. I also will use Frog-Lube as a lubricant. In the summer I will use a little synthetic grease on rails.
For storage, I use Eezox or Corrosion-X. Both are great. Neither is a great lubricant.
This is a fun read: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=751408
Ballistol is selling what amounts to 16 ounces of scented Mineral Oil for $18.00. You can buy the exact same thing for $1.98 at any Wal-Mart. And when you're constipated at least you can drink it. The more of this kind of stuff that I read, the more I realize I should have gone into the lubrication business.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Equate-Mineral-Oil-Intestinal-Lubricant-16-fl-oz/44807472
https://www.expeditionexchange.com/ballistol/
"Ballistol is based on medicinal grade white mineral oil, (CAS # 8042-47-5)
which has been classified "Class 3" by the IARC."
http://www.co.vermilion.il.us/MSDS/EMA/ballistol MSDS.PDF
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Equate-Mineral-Oil-Intestinal-Lubricant-16-fl-oz/44807472
https://www.expeditionexchange.com/ballistol/
"Ballistol is based on medicinal grade white mineral oil, (CAS # 8042-47-5)
which has been classified "Class 3" by the IARC."
http://www.co.vermilion.il.us/MSDS/EMA/ballistol MSDS.PDF
Originally Posted By: billt460
Ballistol is selling what amounts to 16 ounces of scented Mineral Oil for $18.00. You can buy the exact same thing for $1.98 at any Wal-Mart. And when you're constipated at least you can drink it. The more of this kind of stuff that I read, the more I realize I should have gone into the lubrication business.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Equate-Mineral-Oil-Intestinal-Lubricant-16-fl-oz/44807472
https://www.expeditionexchange.com/ballistol/
"Ballistol is based on medicinal grade white mineral oil, (CAS # 8042-47-5)
which has been classified "Class 3" by the IARC."
http://www.co.vermilion.il.us/MSDS/EMA/ballistol MSDS.PDF
Not exactly true. It also contains alcohols, which enable its emulsification, and provide some solvent properties. That allows it to be used as a great black powder solvent, and, also allows it to continue to lubricate in the presence of water. (Ballistol remains after water evaporates.) It also contains, as listed in MSDS, certain salts that make it alkaline, which provide its ability to neutralize corrosives.
Someone above said, "It's not a particularly good cleaner." Well, personally, I don't need a strong cleaner on my firearms. In fact, that is one of the reasons I really like Ballistol - it's not a harsh chemical. I don't have to worry about fumes, or getting it on my hands.
And I haven't found any residue on my firearms, after use, that Ballistol can't remove.
You guys who say it's not a good cleaner - how long are you going between cleanings on your guns?
As stated previously, when you use Ballistol frequently, to clean and lubricate and coat, cleaning becomes easier. Surfaces treated with Ballistol become slick - the carbon residue just wipes off. I don't go more than a few hundred rounds, max, between cleaning my guns, so a strong solvent is not necessary for my needs. And, as also mentioned previously, I don't have to worry about getting it on wood, plastic, polymer, etc. In fact, it beautifies the wood on my guns. I like having only one cleaning/lubrication product to keep up with. I don't want or need 5 or 6 different products that I have to use to clean and lube my guns.
And I'm one of the ones who actually likes the smell! Black licorice!
Ballistol is selling what amounts to 16 ounces of scented Mineral Oil for $18.00. You can buy the exact same thing for $1.98 at any Wal-Mart. And when you're constipated at least you can drink it. The more of this kind of stuff that I read, the more I realize I should have gone into the lubrication business.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Equate-Mineral-Oil-Intestinal-Lubricant-16-fl-oz/44807472
https://www.expeditionexchange.com/ballistol/
"Ballistol is based on medicinal grade white mineral oil, (CAS # 8042-47-5)
which has been classified "Class 3" by the IARC."
http://www.co.vermilion.il.us/MSDS/EMA/ballistol MSDS.PDF
Not exactly true. It also contains alcohols, which enable its emulsification, and provide some solvent properties. That allows it to be used as a great black powder solvent, and, also allows it to continue to lubricate in the presence of water. (Ballistol remains after water evaporates.) It also contains, as listed in MSDS, certain salts that make it alkaline, which provide its ability to neutralize corrosives.
Someone above said, "It's not a particularly good cleaner." Well, personally, I don't need a strong cleaner on my firearms. In fact, that is one of the reasons I really like Ballistol - it's not a harsh chemical. I don't have to worry about fumes, or getting it on my hands.
And I haven't found any residue on my firearms, after use, that Ballistol can't remove.
You guys who say it's not a good cleaner - how long are you going between cleanings on your guns?
As stated previously, when you use Ballistol frequently, to clean and lubricate and coat, cleaning becomes easier. Surfaces treated with Ballistol become slick - the carbon residue just wipes off. I don't go more than a few hundred rounds, max, between cleaning my guns, so a strong solvent is not necessary for my needs. And, as also mentioned previously, I don't have to worry about getting it on wood, plastic, polymer, etc. In fact, it beautifies the wood on my guns. I like having only one cleaning/lubrication product to keep up with. I don't want or need 5 or 6 different products that I have to use to clean and lube my guns.
And I'm one of the ones who actually likes the smell! Black licorice!
Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Originally Posted By: billt460
"Ballistol is based on medicinal grade white mineral oil, (CAS # 8042-47-5)
which has been classified "Class 3" by the IARC."
http://www.co.vermilion.il.us/MSDS/EMA/ballistol MSDS.PDF
Not exactly true. It also contains alcohols, which enable its emulsification, and provide some solvent properties.
Lets face it though, it really can't lubricate as well as a high grade lubricant, it can't clean better than Hoppes #9 solvent, and it can't preserve better. So what's the point?
On the other hand if you are happy with the way it cleans..go for it..no problem. But don't (IMHO) use it to lube or preserve. And when its gone, make your own.
Originally Posted By: billt460
"Ballistol is based on medicinal grade white mineral oil, (CAS # 8042-47-5)
which has been classified "Class 3" by the IARC."
http://www.co.vermilion.il.us/MSDS/EMA/ballistol MSDS.PDF
Not exactly true. It also contains alcohols, which enable its emulsification, and provide some solvent properties.
Lets face it though, it really can't lubricate as well as a high grade lubricant, it can't clean better than Hoppes #9 solvent, and it can't preserve better. So what's the point?
On the other hand if you are happy with the way it cleans..go for it..no problem. But don't (IMHO) use it to lube or preserve. And when its gone, make your own.
Originally Posted By: Al
Lets face it though, it really can't lubricate as well as a high grade lubricant, it can't clean better than Hoppes #9 solvent, and it can't preserve better. So what's the point?
That's just it, there isn't any. There is absolutely nothing Ballistol can do, that can't be done far better by other products.
Lets face it though, it really can't lubricate as well as a high grade lubricant, it can't clean better than Hoppes #9 solvent, and it can't preserve better. So what's the point?
That's just it, there isn't any. There is absolutely nothing Ballistol can do, that can't be done far better by other products.
Originally Posted By: billt460
That's just it, there isn't any. There is absolutely nothing Ballistol can do, that can't be done far better by other products.
But very few others do all 3; cleaning, lubing, and protecting all while being non toxic and good for wood, leather and plastic. It also is one of the few clp's that cleans black powder and corrosive residues.
If you can't see at least some value in that, I don't know what to tell you, drinking some sort of Hatorade? If the smell of Ballistol is so horrendous to you that you can't stand it, you have a seriously wimpy nose and I have no idea how you work around anything automotive related. Gasoline, diesel fuel, brake cleaner spray, gear oil and grease all smell much worse than Ballistol and are in fact toxic and bad for you.
That's just it, there isn't any. There is absolutely nothing Ballistol can do, that can't be done far better by other products.
But very few others do all 3; cleaning, lubing, and protecting all while being non toxic and good for wood, leather and plastic. It also is one of the few clp's that cleans black powder and corrosive residues.
If you can't see at least some value in that, I don't know what to tell you, drinking some sort of Hatorade? If the smell of Ballistol is so horrendous to you that you can't stand it, you have a seriously wimpy nose and I have no idea how you work around anything automotive related. Gasoline, diesel fuel, brake cleaner spray, gear oil and grease all smell much worse than Ballistol and are in fact toxic and bad for you.
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