Is RedLine 10W40 good replacement for Mobil1 15W50

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Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Your engine, stock, spec'd an oil with an HTHS of ~3.0cP. Any of the oils we are discussing are notably heavier here, and heavier than the spec oil for the ZL1 'vette too, which is your basic ~3.0cP HTHS synthetic 5w30.


Thank you for chiming in OVERKILL,

This last build is way far from stock, and faster by ~ 2sc vs. a 2012 ZR1 from 100mph to 180 mph, all NA.

It is the third powerful stroker running in my car and would like to give this time the bearings the best available protection...hence my reserch.
 
Originally Posted By: miami993
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Your engine, stock, spec'd an oil with an HTHS of ~3.0cP. Any of the oils we are discussing are notably heavier here, and heavier than the spec oil for the ZL1 'vette too, which is your basic ~3.0cP HTHS synthetic 5w30.


Thank you for chiming in OVERKILL,

This last build is way far from stock, and faster by ~ 2sc vs. a 2012 ZR1 from 100mph to 180 mph, all NA.

It is the third powerful stroker running in my car and would like to give this time the bearings the best available protection...hence my reserch.


You are quite welcome
smile.gif


Not that it is all that similar, but my buddy with a TT termi that made 750RWHP in "street" trim and 850RWHP in "track" trim just ran plain-Jane M1 5w30 in it, which I found surprising at the time. He had no durability or wear issues with the engine. Mind you, he wasn't twisting the car to 190+Mph either.

What grade did the engine builder recommend? I know Ford recommends a relatively shear-prone 5w50 for their high HP applications including the new Shelby GT1000, which, as the name suggests, makes 1000HP.

What I'm digging at is that even though your engine is far from stock, as long as it is running somewhat stock clearances, you don't need to jump into an oil several orders of magnitude heavier than what it took stock as long as you have reasonable oil temperatures, which, from what you've posted, you do. Something in the 40-weight range is a safe bet. Somebody posted on here that GM's race Corvette's run M1 0w40. That, or D1 5w40 would be my recommendation, with a few UOA's to see how the oil is holding up in terms of shear and fuel dilution as well as how it is trending.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: miami993
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Your engine, stock, spec'd an oil with an HTHS of ~3.0cP. Any of the oils we are discussing are notably heavier here, and heavier than the spec oil for the ZL1 'vette too, which is your basic ~3.0cP HTHS synthetic 5w30.


Thank you for chiming in OVERKILL,

This last build is way far from stock, and faster by ~ 2sc vs. a 2012 ZR1 from 100mph to 180 mph, all NA.

It is the third powerful stroker running in my car and would like to give this time the bearings the best available protection...hence my reserch.


You are quite welcome
smile.gif


Not that it is all that similar, but my buddy with a TT termi that made 750RWHP in "street" trim and 850RWHP in "track" trim just ran plain-Jane M1 5w30 in it,
which I found surprising at the time. He had no durability or wear issues with the engine. Mind you, he wasn't twisting the car to 190+Mph either.

What grade did the engine builder recommend? I know Ford recommends a relatively shear-prone 5w50 for their high HP applications including the new Shelby GT1000, which, as the name suggests, makes 1000HP.

What I'm digging at is that even though your engine is far from stock, as long
as it is running somewhat stock clearances, you don't need to jump into an oil several orders of magnitude heavier than what it took stock as long as you have reasonable oil temperatures, which, from what you've posted, you do. Something in the 40-weight range is a safe bet. Somebody posted on here that GM's race Corvette's run M1 0w40. That, or D1 5w40 would be my recommendation, with a few UOA's to see how the oil is holding up in terms of shear and fuel dilution as well as how it is trending.


Good post.
Im no expert but if the bearing clearances are stock,or very close to stock,and the vehicle has an oil cooler then the engine doesn't need an extremely thick oil. If compression is really high then fuel dilution may be an issue.
An external oil cooler can make a huge difference in oil temps,which reduces the need for a really thick oil.
The engine will rev with less restriction and cold pumpabilty is increased. Win win in my head anyways.
 
Bearings are ~0.0023 (~ double of stock because of high revs)
Alumimun block water temp between 180*F and 195*F
High volume oil pump wet sump no oil cooler
Oil pressure @ 270*F 1100 rpm = 29 psi
Oil pressure @ 270*F from 4000 rpm to 7500 rpm = 53psi
Recommendation is Mobil 1 15W-50 plus ZDDP to 2000ppm
 
Originally Posted By: miami993
Originally Posted By: 3311
I'm not much for boutique oils but Redline 5w50 for your application:

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=135&pcid=21

Mucher HTHS than the Mobil 1 15w50 and RL 10w40.
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
If you're searching for a direct replacement for M1 15w50, which has an HTHS of 4.5, Redline 10w40 is almost identical at 4.7, and their 5w40 is 4.6. RL 0w40 is a bit wimpy at 4.0. The Redline 5w50 is a monster oil with HTHS of 5.9. Unless your engine has a serious problem with fuel dilution, I don't think you need an oil that thick.


Is the HTHS number the determining factor in the "bearing help" process?

Mobil 1 15w-50 HTHS 5.11



Yes, HTHS is the most important value to look at when you are concerned about an oil's true viscosity when it is being sheared at high temperature between two moving surfaces.

Where did you get this HTHS value for M1 15w50? The data sheet that I got my value of 4.5 from is dated 9/2010. Also, there is a new datasheet on the M1 website dated 1/2013 that repeats the 4.5 number. http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/NAUSENPVLMOMobil1_15W-50.aspx
 
Originally Posted By: miami993
Bearings are ~0.0023 (~ double of stock because of high revs)
Alumimun block water temp between 180*F and 195*F
High volume oil pump wet sump no oil cooler
Oil pressure @ 270*F 1100 rpm = 29 psi
Oil pressure @ 270*F from 4000 rpm to 7500 rpm = 53psi
Recommendation is Mobil 1 15W-50 plus ZDDP to 2000ppm


The thinnest I would ever chance, especially with no oil cooler in a Sunshine State summer, with that much larger than stock clearances, is the high ppm add pack Red Line 0W-40, with the added advantage of the highest VI available in a 0W-40 (or ANYTHING thicker than a 0W-20) in the USA.

But that oil's 4.0 HTHSV still might not 'cut it' in that monster powerplant, unless you are always driving it like a granny (or the venerable Dr. Haas on here
lol.gif
).

BTW; is this beast in a late model y body (Vette) or something else??
 
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: miami993
Bearings are ~0.0023 (~ double of stock because of high revs)
Alumimun block water temp between 180*F and 195*F
High volume oil pump wet sump no oil cooler
Oil pressure @ 270*F 1100 rpm = 29 psi
Oil pressure @ 270*F from 4000 rpm to 7500 rpm = 53psi
Recommendation is Mobil 1 15W-50 plus ZDDP to 2000ppm


The thinnest I would ever chance, especially with no oil cooler in a Sunshine State summer, with that much larger than stock clearances, is the high ppm add pack Red Line 0W-40, with the added advantage of the highest VI available in a 0W-40 (or ANYTHING thicker than a 0W-20) in the USA.

But that oil's 4.0 HTHSV still might not 'cut it' in that monster powerplant, unless you are always driving it like a granny (or the venerable Dr. Haas on here
lol.gif
).

BTW; is this beast in a late model y body (Vette) or something else??


UPDATE,

RedLine 10W-40 went in this morning, and after 40 miles:

-The Vacuum value at idle is steady as ever with or without AC.
-Engine noise is drastically disminished.
-Oil pressure is 4 PSI higher in any condition.
-For the first time ever, I can start the AC at iddle in any condition without entering the Stall Saver mode...

Let's see what the next UOA will tell...
 
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
miami993 - IMO No


Hi Doug,

Would you mind to develop a little please?

Thanks in advance.
 
Hi,
miami993 - Well, firstly the engine builder gave you their recommendation and M1 15w-50 has a great reputation in high performance engines. And, going by your engine details, they should know best

The use of ester based lubricants is sometime overrated in IC engines. For engine bearings etc and at the temperatures you provided, M1 15W-50, a non ester lubricant, will do the job well

HTHS numbers are useful where a minimum is specified and that at least should be met. This is especially so where fuel dilution may be an issue. Using a significantly higher HTHS number gradually becomes unproductive
 
I'm late to this thread, but in future I'd consider a 50/50 blend of RL 0W-40 and 5W-50.
This will give you a lighter 5W-50 (HTHSV about 4.9cP) but with a 190 VI. The main advantage over RL 10W-40 which has a VI of only 164 is that the blend I'm suggesting should be noticeably lighter on start-up while maintaining a similar oil pressure when fully hot.
 
Originally Posted By: BillyTheKid
Depends how much you want to spend and how fast you change the oil. There's some stout oils off the shelf by the big manufacturers. Heck, a decent HDEO would work well.

Is that 190 mph run being clocked by gps?


Hi BillyTheKid,

192 mph, on VBOX, Garmin, 7530rpm data acquisition recorded with 345x35/18, fifth gear on MN12 OEM ratio RPM stage V.

My engine is still liking the RedLine 10W40 today...
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
I'm late to this thread, but in future I'd consider a 50/50 blend of RL 0W-40 and 5W-50.
This will give you a lighter 5W-50 (HTHSV about 4.9cP) but with a 190 VI. The main advantage over RL 10W-40 which has a VI of only 164 is that the blend I'm suggesting should be noticeably lighter on start-up while maintaining a similar oil pressure when fully hot.


Hi CATERHAM,

Can you elaborate on the downsides of blending please?
 
miami993 there are no downsides to blending RL oils, they encourage the practice so that you can fine tune a grade to your own application.
Since April RL has reformulated their oils with most of the heavier grades being lighter now. For example their 5W-50 is considerable lighter with the HTHSV dropping from 5.9cP to 5.0cP so I don't know if the 5W-50 you've bought is the heavier old stock or the new.
You may want to contact RL and see if they can tell you.
There 0W-40 is much the same with a lower 190 VI.

Regarding sending off a sample blend to be tested, it's not going to tell you much that we don't already know or can calculate.
 
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