Iran warns of preemptive strike to prevent attack on nuclear sites

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Don't always blame the Christian white boys for the worlds woes...The Islam extremist, and the Mullahs that 'Govern' the people are over 18, have all teh technology available around the world, and are smart enough to figure out how theu want to live. They are living thier choice now. Don't give me any BS about how USA 'keeps them down' and such. They are the richest states in the world. they have thier hands on our nuts. turn the oil off, and you bring the superpower to it's knees. it is not my fault if they cannot handle that 'power' or the $$$ that goes with it. that place can have as many walmart as it wants, if it would just wake up and get off that holier than thou 'tude they got.
I have seen this firsthand myself.
 
Al ..you're actually the only one that realizes that the hatred of Israel is just a "show". It's "used" by leaders to allow their people to vent their displaced anxiety. It's the same thing that Hitler did ..it sorta the same thing anyone who just says "Islamics are evil".


It's hogwash and racist.

Some, who claim to be Islamic, are evil.

Some, who claim to be Christian, are evil.

Some, who claim to be Jewish, are evil.

If they are born of humankind, evil will be among them.

You just can't go painting with such broad strokes when you're talking of "all".

I must also add that "we" use the hatred of Israel, as well. Most of our energy partners are corrupt monarchies. If an Islamic revolt took place, like in Iran, this would disrupt most of the free world. It also gives us justification for our continued enthusiatic support of Israel, when compelling evidence shows that they continue to do some very wrong things. It can also be used for justification for mounting "pre-emptive strikes" agianst ME nations.....claiming the security of Israel must be maintained (hint, hint).
 
Tim

I saw a movie (did I already tell this story??) where two bounty hunters were bringing in a wanted Native American back to justice. During the return trip ..another group of Native Americans attempted to "steal" the prisoner for the bounty. The bounty hunter said to the prisoner, "I thought all indians were brothers.". In a few minutes ..a group of cowboys came by ...chased off the indians and started trying to steal the prisoner themselves. The prisoner said, "I thought all white men were brothers.".

The average Ayhab the Ayrab is kept where he's at BY HIS OWN LEADERS. LEADERS THAT WE HELP REMAIN IN POWER because it serves OUR interests. How is this so hard to figure out that we aren't all that popular with them??? They have to live with there own corruption ..but can't stand a foreigner helping it along.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Gary Allan:
Al ..you're actually the only one that realizes that the hatred of Israel is just a "show". It's "used" by leaders to allow their people to vent their displaced anxiety. It's the same thing that Hitler did ..it sorta the same thing anyone who just says "Islamics are evil".

Well we know how Hitler's "show" turned out don't we? Radical Islam would love to do the same thing only ths time Jews are carrying a big stick. Radical Islam is Naziism without the gas chambers and ovens. They would destroy Israel if they knew they could get away with it and just try to deny that Joe Muslim wouldn't be partying in the streets afterward. Yes, demagoguery is a major contributing factor in this "show", but that doesn't mean that it isn't real.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Gary Allan:

The average Ayhab the Ayrab is kept where he's at BY HIS OWN LEADERS. LEADERS THAT WE HELP REMAIN IN POWER


Then explain the overthrow of the shaw of Iran...Hmmm, we supported him, but when Khoemeni took over, I didn't see us stopping him. almost 30 years later, they're still around. And if king Saud bit the bullet, I am sure we would not senfd troops there, either. Yes, those people are corrupt, but if the commoners really wanted change, it could be done. it was in our country, we warded off the most powerful military in the world...what is stopping them?
 
The Iranian Islamic revolt was a Russian backed coup. It worked.

quote:

we warded off the most powerful military in the world...what is stopping them?

In most cases, the most powerful military in the world.
 
I tend to think your carrying this 'pre-emptive' thing alittle far. we are not going to go invade every country in the ME when they decide to coup thier leaders. Russian backed or not, even Iraq had it's 'overthrow' years ago, and we did not 'help out' that situation..
 
Tim, due to "necessity" ...we and the former Soviets, played ping pong with just about every nation on the planet. Neither of us played very nice at times. What was in the balance required such actions. In some cases it was favorable or required to develop a nice place for the residents of those nations to live in. Where this was inconvenient or unnecessary ...we tended, as did the Soviets, to just prop up whatever regime allowed us to do as we please. The Shah of Iran was one ...our business interests milked that country for many millions of $$$, none of which filtered down to the ignorant masses. Banana republics ..same deal. Our list of dictators is as long as your arm. None of these places needed democracy so bad...at least many of our leadership never seemed to think so.

Now we're paying for playing "kick the can" with the third world ..and everyone is still wondering why.

I'm not saying that "they" are right. I'm saying that you're seeing a symptom/side effects of our foreign policy finally catching up with us. We just didn't get the job of civilizing the whole world quick enough and now we're running out of steam.
 
quote:

Iran is developing nukes. Iran does NOT need nuclear power for electricity. Iran is friendly with Al-Qaeda. Al-Qaeda would love to get a nuke to use on our homeland and/or to exterminate the Jews.

Do you really think that some Iranian leader sits there and actually contemplates the destruction of Israel? They didn't grow up in a vacuum ..nor are they fools. The rhetoric that you hear is for the quest for power. A nuke program gets you respect. Luckily, and one of the few positives that I saw out of Ronnie's administration, we managed to break the will of Libia ..and they abandoned their WMD programs for normalization with the rest of the world. Iran isn't some dictatorship, however, and although I don't truly think that they are anymore "spiritually" motivated then the Vatican is in day to day functions (it is in effect a theorcracy)...they don't have the problem of losing their constituaency anytime soon. The mass majority of Iranians are living in the stone age.

Why is it that a nation rich in resouces is still on the a$$ end of life? Do you think that we somehow have something to do with it ..as in continued punishment for our strained relations?

We should offer them an alternative to this escalation in the ante in the middle east. We've taught the world that the only way you get ahead is to be either a stategic interest ...or a stategic threat. Unfortunately we also require them to adopt our way of life (unless it's profitable = Chile, the banana repuplics, SA, etc.). If you're not in one of those two catagories ...you can rot and the USA could care less (Sudan, Somalia, etc.). So, since Iran is not willing to abandon the "way of life" that they have (an Islamic theocracy) ..we've, more or less, given them very few alternatives to achieve just about anything in the form of advancement.
 
[/QUOTE]Do you really think that some Iranian leader sits there and actually contemplates the destruction of Israel?

Why is it that a nation rich in resouces is still on the a$$ end of life?

Unfortunately we also require them to adopt our way of life [/QB][/QUOTE]

Yes, Some Do sit there and contemplate. It is a much bigger pic than you realise. This 'extremest' religion these people live by calls for the destruction of all 'infidels'. No discussion, no tolorance, no nothing. They want Isreal GONE. Period.

Because these same people who run these countries do not care or look out for the good of the people, but only for themselves. AS long as the people are kept without, and thier leader continually blames USA for all thier problems..power is assured. Don't believe that? just look at all the money Saddam had hidden in the walls that "he did not have becasue of sanctions and such'.

Yes, we require them to adopt a way of life that has RESPECT for other countries and religions NOT of thier own. To be responsible - Morally, economically, ecologically, etc. Is that too much to ask out of anyone?
 
quote:

Originally posted by Gary Allan:

quote:

Iran is developing nukes. Iran does NOT need nuclear power for electricity. Iran is friendly with Al-Qaeda. Al-Qaeda would love to get a nuke to use on our homeland and/or to exterminate the Jews.

Do you really think that some Iranian leader sits there and actually contemplates the destruction of Israel? They didn't grow up in a vacuum ..nor are they fools. The rhetoric that you hear is for the quest for power. A nuke program gets you respect. Luckily, and one of the few positives that I saw out of Ronnie's administration, we managed to break the will of Libia ..and they abandoned their WMD programs for normalization with the rest of the world. Iran isn't some dictatorship, however, and although I don't truly think that they are anymore "spiritually" motivated then the Vatican is in day to day functions (it is in effect a theorcracy)...they don't have the problem of losing their constituaency anytime soon. The mass majority of Iranians are living in the stone age.

Why is it that a nation rich in resouces is still on the a$$ end of life? Do you think that we somehow have something to do with it ..as in continued punishment for our strained relations?

We should offer them an alternative to this escalation in the ante in the middle east. We've taught the world that the only way you get ahead is to be either a stategic interest ...or a stategic threat. Unfortunately we also require them to adopt our way of life (unless it's profitable = Chile, the banana repuplics, SA, etc.). If you're not in one of those two catagories ...you can rot and the USA could care less (Sudan, Somalia, etc.). So, since Iran is not willing to abandon the "way of life" that they have (an Islamic theocracy) ..we've, more or less, given them very few alternatives to achieve just about anything in the form of advancement.


Gary as usual you want to place the blame on your own country. Islam has been raping, pillaging and cutting throats long before America was discovered. This is their M.O. and primary method of advancing their society and gaining power. Always has been, always will be. You can make all the convoluted historical excuses you like, but this is an undeniable fact. Those who ignore this, do so at their own peril.
 
Yes, Isttruck, Islam and its spread into the west saved 100s of years in relearning after the dark ages. They taught the west a learning model that was adopted and remained intact for over 500 years. Their tollerance and embracing of alternative cultures was the main component of their advancements in technology.


No one seems to remember that the word "terrorist" was formerly only associated with the word "arab" until about 15 or so years ago. There never was any spiritual association to it ..at all. There was the PLO ..no Islamic Jihad ..etc.

This only happened after the Russian pull out from Afghanistan. Bin Laden and his troop ..having nothing to do ..found new conquests to explore. OBL ..and all of his like ..were the first to associate "valiant freedom fighters" with Islamic doctrine. This was ogastrated by the USA via Pakistan during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. Pakistan, funded by the CIA, set up a bunch of Madrasas (religous schools) in the frontier between Pakistan and Afghanistan. There they cultivated a bunch of radicals from the ample supply of Afghan refugees.

Yes, folks, our own CIA cultivated the seeds that composes your current "Islamic problem". We left a bunch of "rebels without a cause" in Afghanistan ..and they found a new cause.

I'll try and find the link.

Again ...our kinkering of the Cold War had some unexpected side effects.
 
For those of you who still believe that Islam is no different than Judaism and Christianity, here is an article from www.iranfocus.com.

Girl, 16, hanged in public in Iran Fri. 20 Aug 2004

Iran Focus

On Sunday, August 15, a 16-year-old girl in the town of Neka, northern Iran, was executed. Ateqeh Sahaleh was hanged in public on Simetry Street off Rah Ahan Street at the city center.

The sentence was issued by the head of Neka’s Justice Department and subsequently upheld by the mullahs’ Supreme Court and carried out with the approval of Judiciary Chief Mahmoud Shahroudi.

In her summary trial, the teenage victim did not have any lawyer and efforts by her family to recruit a lawyer was to no avail. Ateqeh personally defended herself. She told the religious judge, Haji Rezaii, that he should punish the main perpetrators of moral corruption not the victims.

The judge personally pursued Ateqeh’s death sentence, beyond all normal procedures and finally gained the approval of the Supreme Court. After her execution Rezai said her punishment was not execution but he had her executed for her “sharp tongue”.


This is a peaceful religion, right? The mullahs if Iran are no different than the Pope? Its our fault that they are 800 years behind? We should allow this society to acquire nuclear technology? They wouldn't dare use it for jihadi purposes?
 
quote:

Originally posted by Gary Allan:
Yes, Isttruck, Islam and its spread into the west saved 100s of years in relearning after the dark ages. They taught the west a learning model that was adopted and remained intact for over 500 years. Their tollerance and embracing of alternative cultures was the main component of their advancements in technology.


No one seems to remember that the word "terrorist" was formerly only associated with the word "arab" until about 15 or so years ago. There never was any spiritual association to it ..at all. There was the PLO ..no Islamic Jihad ..etc.

This only happened after the Russian pull out from Afghanistan. Bin Laden and his troop ..having nothing to do ..found new conquests to explore. OBL ..and all of his like ..were the first to associate "valiant freedom fighters" with Islamic doctrine. This was ogastrated by the USA via Pakistan during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. Pakistan, funded by the CIA, set up a bunch of Madrasas (religous schools) in the frontier between Pakistan and Afghanistan. There they cultivated a bunch of radicals from the ample supply of Afghan refugees.

Yes, folks, our own CIA cultivated the seeds that composes your current "Islamic problem". We left a bunch of "rebels without a cause" in Afghanistan ..and they found a new cause.

I'll try and find the link.

Again ...our kinkering of the Cold War had some unexpected side effects.


Gary, your historical perspective is razor thin. Islam was spread by the sword since the days of Mohamed. Lopping off heads and killing infidel neighbors is as old as Islam itself. It's the CIA's fault. That's a good one!
lol.gif


Here is a link for you...
http://www.studytoanswer.net/islam_myths.html

[ August 22, 2004, 01:37 PM: Message edited by: Ron Jeremy ]
 
Here's some links for you to see:

http://mondediplo.com/1998/10/04afghan


http://www.iran-bulletin.org/political_commentary/afghanestan.html

quote:

Pakistan recognised seven Sunni exile groups to whom it distributed cash and arms from American and Saudi money and to whom all field commanders had to affiliate in order to get aid. Three of them were traditionalists or "moderates" who favoured a return to the pre-Daoud status quo, which usually included a return of the king. Four of them were "fundamentalist" or "Islamist". They did not want the re-establishment of the monarchy but an Islamic state. The Islamist groups - especially Hekmatyar's Hezb - got the lion’s share of the money. As a direct result, the fortunes of the royalist and traditionalist groups in Afghanistan declined and the Islamists became stronger.



The foreign Jihadists who came to fight with the mujahedin allied themselves to the Islamists. The initiative to use non-Afghan volunteers came not from the Afghans themselves but was "a joint venture between the Saudis, the Muslim Brotherhood, and the [Pakistani Islamist] Jamaat- e- Islami, put together by the ISI" (Olivier Roy), and enthusiastically supported by the CIA. Some 35,000 foreign Jihadists would fight alongside the mujahedin, mostly after the departure of the Soviet troops, and many more came to study and actively support them. Osama bin Laden was the main Saudi organiser in Peshawar.



Foreign friends



The Afghan war was a war by proxy between the superpowers. By the early 1980s between 100,000 and 150,000 Soviet troops were stationed in Afghanistan, far outnumbering the Afghan army, which never amounted to much more than 30,000. Thousands of Soviet political and military advisers ran the government and the army, sometimes assisted by Iranian Tudeh party members. By the early 1980s the war was costing the Soviet Union an estimated $5 billion a year. US support for the mujahedin rose dramatically from $30m per year to a peak of $600 million dollars a year in the mid 80s, which the Saudis doubled.



Soviet aid to Afghanistan flowed directly to the party and the state. American aid was more indirect. One the one hand the distribution of American financial aid was sub-contracted to Pakistan. On the other hand Saudi Arabia agreed to match US aid dollar for dollar, had its own networks of distribution and organised the sending of foreign volunteers. Both of these regimes had their own agendas, which were to impact on Afghanistan, and the beneficiaries of both were the Pashtun Islamists.

http://www.chss.iup.edu/jrmcdono/PostColdWar.htm


quote:

Afghanistan

Russian invasion in l979 opposed by mostly fundamentalists arrived to help oust the Soviets and Afghan puppets. Conservative Arab states and the United States supported this effort, which succeeded in late l980s. When Soviets withdrew in l989, they left a power vacuum that lasted a decade. In l998 Taliban seized control and imposed their own version of Islamic law, which involves strict regimentation of women and public executions and mutilations for criminal offenses. Taliban allowed Al Qaeda to establish training camps in their country. Terrorists who attacked the US on 9/11 came from those camps. Muslims mostly educated in Madrasas Islamic schools in Pakistan.

All with CIA and Saudi funding....

So you see folks ..although militant Islamists have been around for a while ......WE gave them the fuel and the reason to expand their universe.
 
Ron

You're looking at the nations that are comprised of mostly Muslims today. They were virtually ALL formed by the Brits after WWI. They were designed to be chaotic. There was no Turkey, Iraq, Iran, etc ..during the Ottoman Empire. The Brits did this dividing on purpose to never again allow a united entity to challenge their western supremacy.

So now you've got a bunch of little fiefdoms and monarchies that are easily manipulated and are riddled with corruption. You've got Kurds split between Turkey and Iraq ..Shiites split between Iran and Iraq ..etc...etc...

Most modern Islamic societies are basically the way we were in the 50s and 60s. No divorce ...many social taboos .. does anyone remember when everything outside of a resturant was closed on Sunday? Same deal. They, just as we did, have a multitude of social ills that are "kept in the closet". Except that they have nations bleeding corruption everywhere and therefore "live the lie" of propriety which is in stark constrast to their reality. They have no economy ..no substantial industry and therefore end up at the sphinctor end of life. Those nations typically still have people living in earthen structures. They don't have a federal highway net ..nor a true social support system (outside of the Islamic madrasas).

Most immigrants that I talk to are middle class people from those nations. They often remark that the corruption is just too built into their way of life to effectively accomplish any worthwhile goals. I counter that we have our own "legal corruption" ...that is we pay people to be good. A vast number of our population is employed just to make sure that "our trains run on time" (insurance, licenses and inspections, etc.).


Most of these nations have economies that don't even add up totally to the equal of just Spain. How do you expect any type of "proper" behavior from them??

Are you saying that the USA ..with our history of transforming a war bruttalized Europe and Japan ..have the inability to transform one of these nations, via trade and without military conquest, into a functional modern society? The only explanation for this not happening is because we chose not to do it. It was not necessary for us to. So we merely supported or toppled the leaders as we saw fit. Anyone would do ..as long as our interests were served.

Any lightbulbs on why Mexico is still a $hithole while Canada has so much in common with us??? What element does Mexico lack that Canada has??

I think that "we like it that way".
 
quote:

Originally posted by Gary Allan:
Ron

You're looking at the nations that are comprised of mostly Muslims today. They were virtually ALL formed by the Brits after WWI. They were designed to be chaotic. There was no Turkey, Iraq, Iran, etc ..during the Ottoman Empire. The Brits did this dividing on purpose to never again allow a united entity to challenge their western supremacy.

Snip....
Any lightbulbs on why Mexico is still a $hithole while Canada has so much in common with us??? What element does Mexico lack that Canada has??

I think that "we like it that way".


-

Do you have a shred of proof of either of those statements? I am really sick of these kind of opinions arrogantly presented as fact.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Gary Allan:


Any lightbulbs on why Mexico is still a $hithole while Canada has so much in common with us??? What element does Mexico lack that Canada has??


More capitalism, less corruption.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Gary Allan:
snip....

No one seems to remember that the word "terrorist" was formerly only associated with the word "arab" until about 15 or so years ago. There never was any spiritual association to it ..at all. There was the PLO ..no Islamic Jihad ..etc. snip....


-


You are entitled to your own opinions however dubious, but please stick to the facts the rest of us use. Islamic terrorism goes back long before 1989 and your 15 years ago. Why did Reagan bomb Libya? When did the Pam Am flight explode, Arturo Lauro, Entebbe, Munich Olympics, etc.

Yes terrorism was getting worse. I hate to think what will happen if we replace Bush with another do nothing president.

Your long posts have more errors than I have time to sort through and point out. Great post on Mexico, Ron.
 
quote:

Originally posted by labman:
Munich Olympics,

Now hold on there labman. We all know that those Palestinians who killed those evil Israelis were not "Terrorists". They were..um, uhh, er, mm..Well they weren't "terrorists"
dunno.gif
 
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