Pearl Harbor not Pearl Harbour
Iran warns of preemptive strike to prevent attack on nuclear sites
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From the link
" "We will consider any strike against our nuclear installations as an attack on Iran as a whole, and we will retaliate with all our strength. "
The Poodle next door is barking again but if we don't strike I suppose they are a friend to our country still ?
They would be easy pickens if and I mean if our military were allowed to operate at full tilt .
A problem I see and some might disagree is that we have both wrists tied behind our back militarily . Mr President untie those hands then shout out good Iraqis to the left of the line drawn in the sand where it's safe because the right side of that line will soon be leveled and it's up to you good Iraqis to cull out the bad that infiltrates into the left with you .
That would be the nicer way to say show some **** courage , send the bad guys to their makers and make a better life for yourselfs instead of waiting for someone else to do it for you then bitching about how they do it !
" "We will consider any strike against our nuclear installations as an attack on Iran as a whole, and we will retaliate with all our strength. "
The Poodle next door is barking again but if we don't strike I suppose they are a friend to our country still ?
They would be easy pickens if and I mean if our military were allowed to operate at full tilt .
A problem I see and some might disagree is that we have both wrists tied behind our back militarily . Mr President untie those hands then shout out good Iraqis to the left of the line drawn in the sand where it's safe because the right side of that line will soon be leveled and it's up to you good Iraqis to cull out the bad that infiltrates into the left with you .
That would be the nicer way to say show some **** courage , send the bad guys to their makers and make a better life for yourselfs instead of waiting for someone else to do it for you then bitching about how they do it !
This is getting ridiculous. So, our counry, or maybe any 'Good' country has the right to a first strike on another nation, just because we say so?
Got a particular post your refering to ?
If it was mine I merely more or less said they are not our friends whether we strategically take out their ability to make nuclear bombs or don't make that move then moved onto Iraq .
That Poodle is still barking though and it barks at Israel also . Very loud it barks
Its nice to be able to take the philosohical high road. But I care most for my family and me. If a million (or a billion) folks accross the water have to die to keep my family safe-so be it.
[ August 21, 2004, 08:52 AM: Message edited by: Al ]
I believe it was Musashi whosaid don't concern yourself with every dog that barks; only the ones who bite.
So according to the 'we have a right to a first strike if we feel threatened' policy, anybody can attack anybody else as long as they feel threatened by them?
Let's see, if I walk down the street and feel that a person may try to mug me, I should jack him up before he has a chance to?
How is Iran capable of killing any of us, unless we're over there nearby in the first place?
Oh, right. They may feel threatened by the US presence in Iraq, so they have the right to a first strike. Right?
So according to the 'we have a right to a first strike if we feel threatened' policy, anybody can attack anybody else as long as they feel threatened by them?
Let's see, if I walk down the street and feel that a person may try to mug me, I should jack him up before he has a chance to?
How is Iran capable of killing any of us, unless we're over there nearby in the first place?
Oh, right. They may feel threatened by the US presence in Iraq, so they have the right to a first strike. Right?
I doubt you would see any significant move against Iran in the next few years. However, it would be nice if the other countries of the Western world would pose as a united front against these proliferations (maybe as the barking dog?).
Of course all this did little with India and Pakistan whom we view as only enemies or threats to each other.
Of course all this did little with India and Pakistan whom we view as only enemies or threats to each other.
Again the liberal way of thinking and spinning common sense-completely upside down. If my family (in my judgment) is threatened I will do whatever is required. I trust myself to make that correct judgment-as I trust myself to make the correct judgment on most issues.
Your example is why I think many liberals (not you necessarily) have trouble sorting out the real world. They take an issue and put enough nebulosity in it that they loose sight of reality and then they are dysfunctional in the real world.
If allowed to build them , with nuclear warheads on the end of missiles and even artillery shells .
I think the scheme of things are missing here and that is stability in the region for the future .
Iran having nuclear capabilities and potentially tossing the threat out to use them if Israel sneezes does not provide for stability .
For the most part dogs bark because they are afraid . The poodles I hear barking are asking other poodles for help , just indirectly .
Sorry, but to believe that a country driven by a radical ideology would not be a threat is retarded. Al's briliant and articulate description of liberal thinking gives your statement far too much credit. The Mullahs are little more than Nazis, only without the snappy clothing. Most liberals these days wouldn't see a big problem with a giant hole in the ground where Israel used to be. The Mullahs would also be more than happy to provide terrorists with a device that could vaporize Manhattan. But hey, lets not be hasty, right? If you see no difference between Iran having nukes and the U.S. having nukes, you are beyond help. Iran needs to be stopped and now.
Iran is developing nukes. Iran does NOT need nuclear power for electricity. Iran is friendly with Al-Qaeda. Al-Qaeda would love to get a nuke to use on our homeland and/or to exterminate the Jews.
LIBERALS - JOIN THE DOTS
Tensions escalating between arch enemies Israel and Iran
Maybe Israel will do the dirty work this time, sooner rather than later. The UN will of course wait for a 12 year "song and dance" survey by its Atomic Energy Committee before deciding to convene a conference to discuss the issue. With any luck, we will still be alive to contribute to the UN discussion.
LIBERALS - JOIN THE DOTS
Tensions escalating between arch enemies Israel and Iran
Maybe Israel will do the dirty work this time, sooner rather than later. The UN will of course wait for a 12 year "song and dance" survey by its Atomic Energy Committee before deciding to convene a conference to discuss the issue. With any luck, we will still be alive to contribute to the UN discussion.
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Ron ..you somehow equate Islam with death and destruction. I would assert that the vast majority of Muslims are as peaceful as sheep. Would you judge all the Jews by the behavior of Ariel Sharon? Would say that all jews are just land grabbing tyrants and merely push anyone who they please out of their way? Shall we deem them racists since they routinely expell bona fide Israeli Arabs if too many Arabs begin to make the "Jewish State" ..not so Jewish??
You assume that anyone with a Muslim name is Islamic ...do you assume that everyone with a jewish name is so spiritually "devout"??? How 'bout "Christians"?
This is only true for the willfully gullable.
I could just as easily say that Japanese are historcally imperialists and conquerers ..ruthless and blood thirsty. Why is it that you probably drive a Mitsubishi ..but seem to forget the Batan death march????
This is a chess game. Iran wants ..period. N Korea wants ..period. They are seeking leverage to GET. In the case of N Korea ..we will probably "give" since our relations with China somewhat dictate it ..until we seduce them with enough cosumerism that they can't resist the partner relationship in population managment. At that point, China, will probably do the job for us.
You must "salt the mine", so to speak. We don't seem interested in doing this in the ME. It apparently causes too many other problems for us.
Why many appear to assign these idealogical badges to commonly motivated actions is beyond me.
This "rhetoric" is always the window dressing for the masses. In this case ..it appears that many are just as much of a sucker as the ignorant and illiterate Arab masses. Just place some idealogical carrot out there and the fools will follow it.
You assume that anyone with a Muslim name is Islamic ...do you assume that everyone with a jewish name is so spiritually "devout"??? How 'bout "Christians"?
This is only true for the willfully gullable.
I could just as easily say that Japanese are historcally imperialists and conquerers ..ruthless and blood thirsty. Why is it that you probably drive a Mitsubishi ..but seem to forget the Batan death march????
This is a chess game. Iran wants ..period. N Korea wants ..period. They are seeking leverage to GET. In the case of N Korea ..we will probably "give" since our relations with China somewhat dictate it ..until we seduce them with enough cosumerism that they can't resist the partner relationship in population managment. At that point, China, will probably do the job for us.
You must "salt the mine", so to speak. We don't seem interested in doing this in the ME. It apparently causes too many other problems for us.
Why many appear to assign these idealogical badges to commonly motivated actions is beyond me.
This "rhetoric" is always the window dressing for the masses. In this case ..it appears that many are just as much of a sucker as the ignorant and illiterate Arab masses. Just place some idealogical carrot out there and the fools will follow it.
I am not talking about "Muslims", I am talking about ISLAM. There is a difference. Throughout history Islam has operated this way and your historical gymnastics are quite ineffective at glossing over this fact. You recklessly toss about non sequitor historical references that have nothing to do with my post or the thread. Blame the West if you like, but you are only kidding yourself.
Ron, how do you think the Western Hemisphere was colonized? Not by Islam,but by Christianity. The Pope divided up South America between Spain and Portugal. Millions of Native Americans (or First Nations people, if you prefer) were killed, or rounded up and herded onto reservations. It wasn't Islam that did that. Neither was is Islam that rounded up thousands of Japanese Americans during WWII and put them into camps.
As usual, it's not the relgion in question, it's the fundamentalist, extremist wings of the religion involved in terrorism, and as usual, they twist their religion's beliefs to suit their own agenda. Just like a lot of people. Don't pigeonhole an entire group.
As for Iran, where's the deivery system for them to reach us with nuclear weapons? Go ahead, somebody say something about smuggling a device in secretly. If they want to do that, they won't be stopped indefinitely anyway, whether they have their own program or get weapons elsewhere.
We didn't stop China, India, Pakistan, etc., and we won't stop anybody else forever.
As usual, it's not the relgion in question, it's the fundamentalist, extremist wings of the religion involved in terrorism, and as usual, they twist their religion's beliefs to suit their own agenda. Just like a lot of people. Don't pigeonhole an entire group.
As for Iran, where's the deivery system for them to reach us with nuclear weapons? Go ahead, somebody say something about smuggling a device in secretly. If they want to do that, they won't be stopped indefinitely anyway, whether they have their own program or get weapons elsewhere.
We didn't stop China, India, Pakistan, etc., and we won't stop anybody else forever.
I will spell this out in big letters so you can understand it...I AM TALKING ABOUT ISLAM, NOT MUSLIMS. If you don't know the difference, its not my problem. You jacka$$es live most benevolent superpower nation in the history of the plant and all you want to do is look for skeletons in your own closet (some real, some imagined), rather than recognize the true threat that exists around the world. If you are comfortable with Iran having these capabilies, then there is nothing I can say to help you.
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Well ...can you note any of these great evils of Islam? Would it be the Ottoman Empire that offered sanctuary to Jews from European clensing (one of the several times that Jews have been kicked around the globe)?
The Ottoman Empire, like most successful empires, was not particularly blood thirsty. There was blood letting during the successions, but other than that ...it was a pretty well run operation. Jews lived and prospered under the Ottoman rule. They could not, however, attain any power. This was for economic reasons. Non-Islamics paid higher taxes ..but also didn't have to provide "conscripts" for the defense of the realm.
Perhaps you can note how the Romans ..or the Crusades ..or the Spanish inquisition were the finest example of western man's benevolence in dynamic form. Shall we talk of northern Ireland? Germany ..over two wars ....
Sorry, Ron. They may have many of the planet's poor and illiterate upon which they have to administer ...but we have more to fear from Syrian Baathist than we ever will from a true Islamist.
Why in the world would you buy the lip service of some Iranian diplomat ..while you scoff at an American? They both pump out BS by the ton. It's all for the "show". If you've got BIG BRASS hanging between your legs (like GW) ..the world listens and reacts. If you've got nothing ..they could care less. Iran wants to be listened to. They are seeking BIG BRASS.
Seems simple enough to me. You can paint some "evil idealogy" coating on it if you must.
I keep wondering why the Torah is mentioned in so much Islamic doctrine? Why in the world would Muslims ..follow the scriptures written in Hebrew?? I guess it's just one more "evil" element to Islam.
Islam spread like wildfire after its inception not by spreading the good word, but by the sword. Europe was almost consumed by it and the Crusades were a response to this. Jews did exist amongst Muslims thrughtout history as long as they paid a poll tax and were subserviant. If someone needed a scapegoat, guess who got it? Then they had they audacity to create their own nation which covered less than 2% of the Middle East and the Arab world goes nuts . They are 800 years behind and can only preach hate and revenge. If you feel somehow responsible for their backwards culture, well then go hard.quote:
Originally posted by Gary Allan:
Well ...can you note any of these great evils of Islam? Would it be the Ottoman Empire that offered sanctuary to Jews from European clensing (one of the several times that Jews have been kicked around the globe)?
The Ottoman Empire, like most successful empires, was not particularly blood thirsty. There was blood letting during the successions, but other than that ...it was a pretty well run operation. Jews lived and prospered under the Ottoman rule. They could not, however, attain any power. This was for economic reasons. Non-Islamics paid higher taxes ..but also didn't have to provide "conscripts" for the defense of the realm.
Perhaps you can note how the Romans ..or the Crusades ..or the Spanish inquisition were the finest example of western man's benevolence in dynamic form. Shall we talk of northern Ireland? Germany ..over two wars ....
Sorry, Ron. They may have many of the planet's poor and illiterate upon which they have to administer ...but we have more to fear from Syrian Baathist than we ever will from a true Islamist.
Why in the world would you buy the lip service of some Iranian diplomat ..while you scoff at an American? They both pump out BS by the ton. It's all for the "show". If you've got BIG BRASS hanging between your legs (like GW) ..the world listens and reacts. If you've got nothing ..they could care less. Iran wants to be listened to. They are seeking BIG BRASS.
Seems simple enough to me. You can paint some "evil idealogy" coating on it if you must.
I keep wondering why the Torah is mentioned in so much Islamic doctrine? Why in the world would Muslims ..follow the scriptures written in Hebrew?? I guess it's just one more "evil" element to Islam.
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Allan:
I hope you are not serious Gary. 100% Absolutely some of them do. Perhaps the leaders don't do it bc they hate Israel. But the "hatred" of Israel is the glue that some Arab Leaders use to hold their faltering governments together.
I can't over-recommend this book:
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Well, Ron ..I can see that we probably won't ever come to any agreement on this issue.
I would like to leave you with one thought however. I think that this "idealogical tension" is just a shroud to mask other problems for everyone involved in the Middle East. The ignorant masses get to blame someone for all their little anxieties ...and the rest of the world gets a filtered version of facts that depict things in a "favorable" manner to further other agendas.
Reality, if one can truly define it, is somewhere else.
I would like to leave you with one thought however. I think that this "idealogical tension" is just a shroud to mask other problems for everyone involved in the Middle East. The ignorant masses get to blame someone for all their little anxieties ...and the rest of the world gets a filtered version of facts that depict things in a "favorable" manner to further other agendas.
Reality, if one can truly define it, is somewhere else.
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