Input from Diesel truck owners

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Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
IFTA is >26K, not 25K. (We have four trucks at work with 25,900-26,000 GVWR; none have IFTA stickers.)


It's not that simple.

Specifically, what are these "trucks" you refer to, and where are they operating?
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
And yet...hotshotters regularly gross 25-30,000lbs on a 1-ton dually, then run the truck 500,000+ miles!


At that point, might as well buy more truck that would handle that kind of gross ever better. At 25K GCW and above, all kind of IFTA and DOT regulations kick in. Why pull around that kind of weight in regards to business and do it with a toy. Sure they might pull it around, but folks doing that kind of thing, I can blow by on a hill when I am grossing 78,000 with my semi, and do it a 1400-1500 RPM. See it every day. I would be more inclined to get a medium duty truck and move up to, say, a 9L motor and heavier drive train components. Again, one has already broken the 25K lb DOT and IFTA threshold, so might at well do it right and more operationally cost effective.


Pretty much, the tow ratings on new one tons is just silly.

The prices on them are silly as well, you can get a much more capable slightly used tractor than a 1 ton these days.

I suspect its because a lot of guys can't or won't get CDL's.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Other-Makes-COMBINATION-/391382414281?forcerrptr=true&hash=item5b2035b3c9:g:B2EAAOSw5dNWmo0e&item=391382414281
You get so much more for your money.
 
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Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
IFTA is >26K, not 25K. (We have four trucks at work with 25,900-26,000 GVWR; none have IFTA stickers.)


It's not that simple.

Specifically, what are these "trucks" you refer to, and where are they operating?


Hotshotters hauling cars, and pretty much everywhere.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
And yet...hotshotters regularly gross 25-30,000lbs on a 1-ton dually, then run the truck 500,000+ miles!


At that point, might as well buy more truck that would handle that kind of gross ever better. At 25K GCW and above, all kind of IFTA and DOT regulations kick in. Why pull around that kind of weight in regards to business and do it with a toy. Sure they might pull it around, but folks doing that kind of thing, I can blow by on a hill when I am grossing 78,000 with my semi, and do it a 1400-1500 RPM. See it every day. I would be more inclined to get a medium duty truck and move up to, say, a 9L motor and heavier drive train components. Again, one has already broken the 25K lb DOT and IFTA threshold, so might at well do it right and more operationally cost effective.


Pretty much, the tow ratings on new one tons is just silly.

The prices on them are silly as well, you can get a much more capable slightly used tractor than a 1 ton these days.

I suspect its because a lot of guys can't or won't get CDL's.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Other-Makes-COMBINATION-/391382414281?forcerrptr=true&hash=item5b2035b3c9:g:B2EAAOSw5dNWmo0e&item=391382414281
You get so much more for your money.


Yeah...you can get a 10-year-old pig in a poke that probably spent its entire life in a city! (And that, incidentally, wouldn't work because it's a daycab, and a twin screw!)

Not to mention that, having driven Sterlings, that truck would be a MISERABLE, noisy, punishing ride.
 
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
F550 or 5500 Ram maybe?


The problem with light duty trucks is no matter how fancy they are they are still very limited in what they can do. A medium or heavy duty truck provides so much more bang for the buck.

The thing with 1 tons is a lot of guys buy them with a dump body on the back and now think they have a real truck. I see them over loaded constantly.





Medium or heavy duty more bang for the buck? Have you ever purchased or owned a medium duty vehicle?
 
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Because compared to a MDT, it cost about half as much to run a dually pickup!

IFTA is >26K, not 25K. (We have four trucks at work with 25,900-26,000 GVWR; none have IFTA stickers.)


Bingo!

I have both MDT's and LDT's.

The MDT's are a lot heavier in expense on taxes, insurance, fuel, maintenance, everything. They also really suck to drive as well. The air brakes on my UDs and Internationals feel like they have exactly two settings: Applied and released. Like stomping a brick since new. All the others I test drove felt the same way.

Fuel economy? Best unloaded highway fuel economy has been 7.4 mpg, with maple syrup acceleration.

I recently had to purchase a fan clutch for $1171.00 for one, and a $1343.00 radiator. That MDT stuff sounds fun until you have to pay all of the other bills that come along with them, and store them.

Do the maintenance yourself, and be prepared to buy a lot of new equipment you have never thought about owning before. You can't even change a tire with standard equipment.

Have a company take care of the things that will come up, and be prepared to wait, listen to a load of bull, and then pay a ridiculous amount of money for the whole process.

Of course, we are talking straight-trucks with boxes. I simply cannot acquire a 1-ton with refrigerated boxes as large as the MDTs, and the larger boxes are what ultimately make the finances of an MDT work out, because they can run longer delivery routes without coming back home, as they carry more stuff. Running one MDT beats running two LDT's when the numbers come in.

But this also comes with the obligation that they must be used to total and complete maximum potential at every outset. Were I not to have two LDT's worth of goods going out on every trip, on two LDT's worth of delivery locations, the whole thing goes down the drain real fast.

On the shorter runs, it makes greater sense to send two of my smaller trucks to simultaneously hit two separate locations at a time than it does to send a larger truck to spend twice the time hitting the same spots. For the far-out stuff, with bigger deliveries per location, it absolutely adds up to send a larger truck to hit all of the marks. There, the potential to end up sending two smaller trucks to deliver a split-load to one spot exists.

My Ram 1-tons do relatively local boat pickups and deliveries on a regular basis. Purchasing and maintaining an MDT for this would be completely stupid. Sometimes the boats are 34' cruisers and 42' fishing boats, but sometimes they're significantly smaller.

Overloaded? Hardly. The last big one I picked up myself. Big 33' cruiser with a sedan bridge. When the Travelift sat that thing down on the trailer, the springs settled about 2-3" at the most. I used the airbags to level it out, because I have that option available to me.

The thing that people always forget when considering the weight of a load on a truck is Vertical Tongue Weight. There's no need to crush a truck under VTW. I go by the tried-and-true formula of 10-25%. A properly designed boat trailer is more than happy at 15%. That's only 2700 lbs. at 9 tons load. The trailer does its job, which is to carry the rest of that weight itself. You'll always notice that a good boat trailer is going to have multiple axles directly under the heaviest part of the boat. Plenty of other types of trailers are made exactly the same way, and the truckers (especially the auto-haulers) will load their trailer to preserve this situation.

But again, that's the whole thing about big vs. small. Every time you don't fully utilize the size, that's a financial kick in the nuts. The bigger the machine, the bigger the kick will be.

Using an LDT gives you greater versatility in how you make your money. With MDTs, you have to say "no" a lot more than with LDT trucks.

The magic of the LDT is that its operating costs are so minuscule; greatly resembling many typical privately owned vehicles, that you don't have to look to always carry heck's half-acre every time it moves. You take the smaller stuff, you make money. You take the bigger stuff, you make even more money.

So how's the rest of it all hauling big loads with a 1-ton? Boring. 1-3mph feels kind of heavy, but after that, I can keep up with traffic just fine. Braking? Boring. Put the foot down, and it slows and stops fine. Turning? definitely less dramatic that turning an unloaded MDT.

And at the of the day, I just unhook whatever is back there, and drive the truck home. Fits in my driveway, can park it out on the street, can go through the drive-thrus, can park in the front of the lot at the store, and doing work on it is pretty similar to doing work on anything else I own. The real kicker is that I'm not subject to any of the commercial vehicle restrictions that exist within my community, or any others. Right through the front gate, no questions asked.

Now I know some people are going to say, "But what about the GAWR/GVWR/GCWR? Those are the real numbers!".

Those numbers are arbitrarily reduced, increased, and invented in the first place. This is coming from a person who has had the GVWR properly and legally reduced on a truck in order to avoid certain fees and insurance penalties. Manufacturers do it all of the time as well.

Real people are using these trucks for real heavy hauling. Their MC/DOT numbers are not something they slapped on last night. Road after road, state after state, their loads are passing inspection after inspection. It's real.

It's not about avoiding a CDL either. I have one, so do my other guys. Whether you haul with a Ranger or a Peterbilt, you're not going to move anything oversize/overwidth without one, especially not for commercial purposes.
 
Actually, I would rather drive some MDTs than most pickups. I like air brakes...though my current truck at work doesn't have them.
frown.gif


The only tools you need for tire changing are a couple of irons. I saw a tire guy change a trailer tire (295/75R22.5) at work a couple weeks ago...he didn't even unbolt the wheel!
 
My brothers 2009 6.7 Cummins 6 speed manual dually has been a great truck. Outstanding fuel economy too. Stock the truck could do 25 mpg if he drove normally doing mostly mixed rural and highway driving. He's modded it quite a bit. It's tough.
 
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Because compared to a MDT, it cost about half as much to run a dually pickup!

IFTA is >26K, not 25K. (We have four trucks at work with 25,900-26,000 GVWR; none have IFTA stickers.)


Well you did say 25K to 30K gross is the post I responded to. That is above 26K for most of it. Not sure about half the cost compared to something like a Freightliner M2-106 as a tractor. At the weights you are talking, fuel use would be comparable and the design is more robust so operational costs would be generally lower. When my semi trailer is empty, my gross is at 32,500. I can bust 10 mpg quite easily with a 12.7L motor and turning more rubber. A 1 ton dually fighting with that kind of gross wouldn't do much better and it would be beating itself up in comparison. The M2-106 has a lot more options for spec'ing to match more closely the task. Is a pretty good medium duty truck available with 6.7 and 9L engines, 5,6,8,9,10 spd manuals or Allison 1000,2000, or 3000 autos.
 
My condolences DoubleWasp. My Freightliner class 8 with 53' of dry box trailer hauling an average freight payload of about 35K, has averaged 7.93 mpg over it's 505,000 miles. Empty, loaded, winter, summer, all of it. Detroit 12.7L in front of Eaton 18 spd, turning 2.64 Meritor diffs riding on Michelin 22.5 lo pro rubber. Just pulled 46K of freight (total gross around 78.5K) thru snowstorm from NE to IN and got 7.3 mpg for the run. Yes, pump to pump hand calculated.
 
And my mpg average is not unique. Henry Albert is a guy who really knows how to spec out trucks and drive them. He has a 2016 FL Cascadia class 8, also pulling a 53' dry box. He has an average mpg of 8.9 with latest fill up at 9.03. He hauls interstate. The problem with pickups and some MDT's is that the OEM doesn't have a wide enough range of options for spec'ing drive trains and other aspects. Thus, lousy mpg numbers from them. While a driver does account for about 1/3 of good or bad fuel economy, specs come into play just as much. And selecting the right trans, diffs, tires, etc can bring out the best an engine has to offer. Unfortunately, pickup OEM's are woefully lacking in the skill set to spec their products right and allow owners to change specs.
 
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Actually, I would rather drive some MDTs than most pickups. I like air brakes...though my current truck at work doesn't have them.
frown.gif


The only tools you need for tire changing are a couple of irons. I saw a tire guy change a trailer tire (295/75R22.5) at work a couple weeks ago...he didn't even unbolt the wheel!


2 words: Lifting equipment.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
My condolences DoubleWasp. My Freightliner class 8 with 53' of dry box trailer hauling an average freight payload of about 35K, has averaged 7.93 mpg over it's 505,000 miles. Empty, loaded, winter, summer, all of it. Detroit 12.7L in front of Eaton 18 spd, turning 2.64 Meritor diffs riding on Michelin 22.5 lo pro rubber. Just pulled 46K of freight (total gross around 78.5K) thru snowstorm from NE to IN and got 7.3 mpg for the run. Yes, pump to pump hand calculated.


No condolences necessary. Condescending not necessary either.
wink.gif


If given the choice, I would never go the the trouble you did to put your rig together. Nor would I pay the amount of money you did for your rig, either. I also wouldn't send a Class 8 out to make relatively local deliveries, either.

Had I bought a Class 8 rig like yours, with equivalent mileage, equivalent age, refrigerated box with liftgate, not only would it take me about 15 years to justify the difference in fuel economy, but I'd have to sentence my drivers to make 50-70 yard long-walks with perishable goods on a pallet, extend a lot of the routes to avoid certain bridges and get the constant hit from paying tolls on all of those axles.

Come to think of it, I probably never would justify the extra expense at all.
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker

Well you did say 25K to 30K gross is the post I responded to. That is above 26K for most of it. Not sure about half the cost compared to something like a Freightliner M2-106 as a tractor. At the weights you are talking, fuel use would be comparable and the design is more robust so operational costs would be generally lower. When my semi trailer is empty, my gross is at 32,500. I can bust 10 mpg quite easily with a 12.7L motor and turning more rubber. A 1 ton dually fighting with that kind of gross wouldn't do much better and it would be beating itself up in comparison. The M2-106 has a lot more options for spec'ing to match more closely the task. Is a pretty good medium duty truck available with 6.7 and 9L engines, 5,6,8,9,10 spd manuals or Allison 1000,2000, or 3000 autos.


I can tell you for a fact that 1-ton Ram with the top engine/trans/axle package costs half the price to purchase over an equivalent M2-106.

Then once you buy the M2-106, you just have to deal with the fact that it's pretty much the worst Freightliner ever built, and chase electrical and HVAC problems throughout ownership.
 
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Actually, I would rather drive some MDTs than most pickups. I like air brakes...though my current truck at work doesn't have them.
frown.gif


The only tools you need for tire changing are a couple of irons. I saw a tire guy change a trailer tire (295/75R22.5) at work a couple weeks ago...he didn't even unbolt the wheel!


2 words: Lifting equipment.
wink.gif



What in the world are you talking about?
 
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker

Well you did say 25K to 30K gross is the post I responded to. That is above 26K for most of it. Not sure about half the cost compared to something like a Freightliner M2-106 as a tractor. At the weights you are talking, fuel use would be comparable and the design is more robust so operational costs would be generally lower. When my semi trailer is empty, my gross is at 32,500. I can bust 10 mpg quite easily with a 12.7L motor and turning more rubber. A 1 ton dually fighting with that kind of gross wouldn't do much better and it would be beating itself up in comparison. The M2-106 has a lot more options for spec'ing to match more closely the task. Is a pretty good medium duty truck available with 6.7 and 9L engines, 5,6,8,9,10 spd manuals or Allison 1000,2000, or 3000 autos.


I can tell you for a fact that 1-ton Ram with the top engine/trans/axle package costs half the price to purchase over an equivalent M2-106.

Then once you buy the M2-106, you just have to deal with the fact that it's pretty much the worst Freightliner ever built, and chase electrical and HVAC problems throughout ownership.


We have five M2s at work...and yeah, they are awful. They are low-bidder junk and make no attempt to hide the fact.
 
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker

Well you did say 25K to 30K gross is the post I responded to. That is above 26K for most of it. Not sure about half the cost compared to something like a Freightliner M2-106 as a tractor. At the weights you are talking, fuel use would be comparable and the design is more robust so operational costs would be generally lower. When my semi trailer is empty, my gross is at 32,500. I can bust 10 mpg quite easily with a 12.7L motor and turning more rubber. A 1 ton dually fighting with that kind of gross wouldn't do much better and it would be beating itself up in comparison. The M2-106 has a lot more options for spec'ing to match more closely the task. Is a pretty good medium duty truck available with 6.7 and 9L engines, 5,6,8,9,10 spd manuals or Allison 1000,2000, or 3000 autos.


I can tell you for a fact that 1-ton Ram with the top engine/trans/axle package costs half the price to purchase over an equivalent M2-106.

Then once you buy the M2-106, you just have to deal with the fact that it's pretty much the worst Freightliner ever built, and chase electrical and HVAC problems throughout ownership.


We have five M2s at work...and yeah, they are awful. They are low-bidder junk and make no attempt to hide the fact.


Hehe
wink.gif


We have an old FL70 and two newer M2 106's, all with different power options. The old FL70 has a C7 CAT in it, the two newer trucks, the one has a Mercedes and the newest has a Cummins ISB. You are right, they are quite wonky in the electrical and HVAC systems; they are generally pretty "needy" trucks.

We've been contemplating replacing all three with comparable Kenworth straight trucks.
 
I would probably go for F650s with gas V10 power. Failing that...either anF650 or an International with Cummins power.
 
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