How much extra would you pay for 100% gas?

[Trav]

You need to tell this to the 20 or so marina's i service injectors for. Just did 32 today with ethanol corrosion.
Like i said i know this was going to go this way. It didn’t happen to me so its blown out of proportion.

 

[philipp10]

Originally Posted By: Trav
You need to tell this to the 20 or so marina's i service injectors for. Just did 32 today with ethanol corrosion.
Like i said i know this was going to go this way. It didn’t happen to me so its blown out of proportion.

Well maybe after replacing the injectors on these boats you should look to see "why" so much water is getting into the gas in the first place. If ethanol was so bad, we would have widespread issues, not 1/100 of 1%....

 

[Shrubitup]

Hey Whatevs. Ya'lls don't like the pure gas.... that's fine. It costs me a few bucks extra per year total for my OPE and dirt bike AND it smells far less offensive than E10. Since switching to to E0 I have not needed to clean a carburetor to keep my machines running great.

 

[Willscary]

Here in Wisconsin we have widespread 10% ethanol. We also have E85 pumps and in counties surrounding Milwaukee we have "reformulated" ethanol. Being both a farming and a outdoor sport state, there are a fair amount of places that sell 100% gasoline also. Here is what I have found (flame suit is on)

Reformulated gas sucks. I get headaches when in Milwaukee traffic from the goofy fumes. The few times I have HAD to fill up, my mileage has been poor.

Ethanol causes rougher idling and poorer gas mileage than pure gas in all of my vehicles. It also has less throttle response. It is not like it kills the power, just doesn't quite respond the same.

100% gas...costs about 3-4% more (right now 9 cents per gallon $2.82 vs $2.73 per gallon. I track my mileage religiously and have for over 30 years. I get about 3-4% better mileage with pure gas than with ethanol, so it is really a wash as far as cost. The vehicles start better and idle better with pure gas. All of my small engines do also, from weed trimmers to chain saws to push and riding mowers to my boat motor and my cars and truck.

Ethanol provides 76,100 BTUs per gallon while gasoline provides 114,100 BTUs per gallon. Gasoline that has a 10% ethanol content provides about 110,300 BTUs per gallon, or about 3.3% less.

Just to run some numbers...I have a 2012 Hyundai Sonata Limited with a 2.4L direct injected 4 cyl. Hyundai gave money back to everyone after the government found in favor of owners crying that they were not getting the mileage that they sould. The car is rated at 35 hwy and 28 in mixed driving (don't remember city number). I have averaged 28.6 overall and I get 37-39 on the highway. I run straight gas. Also, MOST of my driving (90%) is in 3 mile trips back and forth to work. I have filled my tank 44 times in the 40 months I have owned the car. I have averaged less than 20 miles per day since getting the car even though I have been to Florida, Georgia (twice) and Ohio with it. I see the benefits of 100% gasoline and I would pay 5-6% more for it. It gives me 3-4% better mileage and my engines start and run better with no problems.

My 19 year old lawn tractor has over 1500 hours on it. Mobil 1 has been the oil and no ethanol has ever been used. It starts immediately and runs perfectly in all weather. My 13 year old Mercury 2 stroke starts on the first pull every time, even if sitting for a few weeks. It has never had ethanol in it and the gas is mixed with Pennzoil fully synthetic marine 2 cycle oil.

I simply do not have problems.

 

[spasm3]

Originally Posted By: philipp10
Originally Posted By: Trav
You need to tell this to the 20 or so marina's i service injectors for. Just did 32 today with ethanol corrosion.
Like i said i know this was going to go this way. It didn’t happen to me so its blown out of proportion.

Well maybe after replacing the injectors on these boats you should look to see "why" so much water is getting into the gas in the first place. If ethanol was so bad, we would have widespread issues, not 1/100 of 1%....


there are widespread issues. No one knows what those numbers are. The boat and ope repair guys see this, they are not making it up. In engines that turn over the fuel regularly there is not a problem. There is a problem when the alcohol sits and absorbs moisture into the fuel over time. Hence the probems with boats and certain ope like gas powered aerators in non commercial use.
I had the fuel needle corrode the head competely off in a walk behind aerator. The float was not attached as the top of the needle was gone.

The only thing that seems to help is stabil and one ounce of tcw3 oil in 5 gallons of fuel , this seems for me anyway to stave off the corrosion.

 

[hatt]

REC90 is about $1 more right now than 87 E10. I need to make as trip soon. About out of last years stash. It's worth the $15-20 more a year just to flip off the man a little.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: philipp10
Originally Posted By: Trav
You need to tell this to the 20 or so marina's i service injectors for. Just did 32 today with ethanol corrosion.
Like i said i know this was going to go this way. It didn’t happen to me so its blown out of proportion.

Well maybe after replacing the injectors on these boats you should look to see "why" so much water is getting into the gas in the first place. If ethanol was so bad, we would have widespread issues, not 1/100 of 1%....


Not my problem, i just service the units off the engine. I do get to see what you and some others that are not in the business don't see. I see and handle more injectors in a week than you have had hot dinners.
Where the [censored] did you get this 1/100 of 1% number out of your arse or what? I said you you were looking for argument. LOL

 

[Merkava_4]

I don't have any problems with E10 either. I wish we had E100.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

Originally Posted By: Trav
You need to tell this to the 20 or so marina's i service injectors for. Just did 32 today with ethanol corrosion.
Like i said i know this was going to go this way. It didn’t happen to me so its blown out of proportion.

Since ethanol has been around for decades, you can't blame the fuel for a manufacturer that produces an inferior product that isn't compatible. If an injector has been manufactured in the last 30 years, it should be compatible with the fuel that's most likely to be used. It must not be too difficult to manufacture injectors that are compatible, because several hundred million of them are in use and it's only a small handful that have issues.

 

[Trav]

How many are having problems and how many not? Lets have some data not just numbers out of someone’s backside or statements like a handful like you came out with.
Truth is you have no idea an neither does that other poster, no one does.

Injector cleaner is a huge seller, how many cars are running around with degraded injector performance and how many of those are being caused by ethanol?
Did you even bother to read the link i posted to and do a little research?

Quote:
"A mixture of alcohol and gasoline will attract moisture and cause acid deposits during storage.".

This is factual. Some injectors handle the acid better than others but all will likely be effected in some way.

Quote:

Engine Manufacturers Have Issued Warnings About Gasoline With Ethanol Alcohol - E10 E15 fuel types...
Agco - Artic Cat - Ariens - Billy Goat - BMW - Bombardier - Briggs and Stratton - Caterpillar - Daimler Chrysler - Dodge - Ducati - Echo - Evinrude - Ferrari - Ford - General Motors - Harley Davidson - Homelite - Honda Acura - Hyundai - Isuzu - Jaguar - John Deere - Kia - Land Rover - Lawn Boy - Mazda - Mercedes-Benz - Mercruiser - Mercury - Mitsubishi - Murray - Nissan Infiniti - OMC - Pleasurecraft - Polaris - Porsche - Poulan - Rolls Royce - Saab - Sears - Snapper - Subaru - Suzuki - Tecumseh - Toro - Toyota - Volkswagen Audi - Volvo


http://www.fuel-testers.com/manufacturer_fuel_recommendations_ethanol_e10.html

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Trav
How many are having problems and how many not? Lets have some data not just numbers out of someone’s backside or statements like a handful like you came out with.
Truth is you have no idea an neither does that other poster, no one does.

Injector cleaner is a huge seller, how many cars are running around with degraded injector performance and how many of those are being caused by ethanol?
Did you even bother to read the link i posted to and do a little research?

Quote:
"A mixture of alcohol and gasoline will attract moisture and cause acid deposits during storage.".

This is factual. Some injectors handle the acid better than others but all will likely be effected in some way.

Quote:

Engine Manufacturers Have Issued Warnings About Gasoline With Ethanol Alcohol - E10 E15 fuel types...
Agco - Artic Cat - Ariens - Billy Goat - BMW - Bombardier - Briggs and Stratton - Caterpillar - Daimler Chrysler - Dodge - Ducati - Echo - Evinrude - Ferrari - Ford - General Motors - Harley Davidson - Homelite - Honda Acura - Hyundai - Isuzu - Jaguar - John Deere - Kia - Land Rover - Lawn Boy - Mazda - Mercedes-Benz - Mercruiser - Mercury - Mitsubishi - Murray - Nissan Infiniti - OMC - Pleasurecraft - Polaris - Porsche - Poulan - Rolls Royce - Saab - Sears - Snapper - Subaru - Suzuki - Tecumseh - Toro - Toyota - Volkswagen Audi - Volvo


http://www.fuel-testers.com/manufacturer_fuel_recommendations_ethanol_e10.html



I would suspect that marine use may open up some conditions that would not otherwise be encountered though. A few years back we installed a fuel separator filter on a cousin's boat due to funny operation. It amazed me how much water was in there though the tank is not easily exposed to rain. No idea why this is, but marine applications may have different encounters with moisture.

 

[kschachn]

What marinas sell E10 anyway? Around here (Great Lakes) there are none, in fact a marina is the only place in this EPA non-attainment area where we can buy E0. I've never seen any marine gas place that sold E10.

 

[boraticus]

If the problem of E10 fuel was such a huge issue as some claim it to be, our highways would be lined with dead vehicles and the towing industry would be challenged beyond comprehension.

There are likely some issues caused by mishandling of E10 fuel and possibly initial contamination of fuel from source.

The percentage of problems would likely be less that points of one percent as previously posted. Otherwise, the evidence would be visible across our nations highways, rivers, lakes, back yards, golf courses, parks and any other place gasoline powered equipment is used.

Last time I looked, seemed like automotive activity was running as good as, if not better than back in the days we had no E10 fuel.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Engine Manufacturers Have Issued Warnings About Gasoline With Ethanol Alcohol - E10 E15 fuel types...
Agco - Artic Cat - Ariens - Billy Goat - BMW - Bombardier - Briggs and Stratton - Caterpillar - Daimler Chrysler - Dodge - Ducati - Echo - Evinrude - Ferrari - Ford - General Motors - Harley Davidson - Homelite - Honda Acura - Hyundai - Isuzu - Jaguar - John Deere - Kia - Land Rover - Lawn Boy - Mazda - Mercedes-Benz - Mercruiser - Mercury - Mitsubishi - Murray - Nissan Infiniti - OMC - Pleasurecraft - Polaris - Porsche - Poulan - Rolls Royce - Saab - Sears - Snapper - Subaru - Suzuki - Tecumseh - Toro - Toyota - Volkswagen Audi - Volvo

http://www.fuel-testers.com/manufacturer_fuel_recommendations_ethanol_e10.html


Well yeah, OK sure. So says the site that sells test kits for alcohol. But you notice that it is primarily warnings for marine equipment, and a warning about E15 and above for other machinery. And how do we know how long ago some of those warnings were published? For example, I downloaded the user guide for the Ariens EZR Zero Turn mower just now and there are no warnings, no cautions, no nothing listed about E10 whatsoever. So is this for an older model or is it made up? Who knows?

I'm no fan of the use of alcohol in fuel (there is no economically justifiable reason to use it, nor is there an environmental one either) but using a website that sells test kits as proof is a little sensational.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I would suspect that marine use may open up some conditions that would not otherwise be encountered though. A few years back we installed a fuel separator filter on a cousin's boat due to funny operation. It amazed me how much water was in there though the tank is not easily exposed to rain. No idea why this is, but marine applications may have different encounters with moisture.


Have you ever seen a marina that sells E10?

 

[spasm3]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I would suspect that marine use may open up some conditions that would not otherwise be encountered though. A few years back we installed a fuel separator filter on a cousin's boat due to funny operation. It amazed me how much water was in there though the tank is not easily exposed to rain. No idea why this is, but marine applications may have different encounters with moisture.


Have you ever seen a marina that sells E10?


Some people fuel from outside the marina, that may be where the problem lies.

 

[TFB1]

I've seen problems with E10 in equipment and vehicles that were allowed to set for long periods of time(year plus), but never if fuel was treated... Also never if new fuel were being added every couple months or so... Had to rebuild a B&S Quantum carb because it set untreated for a couple years...

Just last week I helped a buddy get a '97 E-250 van with 5.4 running correctly... It had set for FOUR years... Needed a fuel pump and tank cleaned, but still would barely run after those repairs... We determined it had four dead cylinders due to stuck injectors(no doubt gummed up)... Fixed it by lightly tapping on the injectors after engine was up to temp... It's run a couple hundred miles now, doing fine...

 

[hattaresguy]

E10 caused havoc in the marine industry a few years ago when it was introduced. If you had an old fuel pump or lines they were going to fail.

Boats with fiberglass tanks like Bertrams had it the worst, E10 eats tanks!

Modern fuel doesn't store well I put Startron in every jerry jug.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: boraticus
If the problem of E10 fuel was such a huge issue as some claim it to be, our highways would be lined with dead vehicles and the towing industry would be challenged beyond comprehension.

There are likely some issues caused by mishandling of E10 fuel and possibly initial contamination of fuel from source.

The percentage of problems would likely be less that points of one percent as previously posted. Otherwise, the evidence would be visible across our nations highways, rivers, lakes, back yards, golf courses, parks and any other place gasoline powered equipment is used.

Last time I looked, seemed like automotive activity was running as good as, if not better than back in the days we had no E10 fuel.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.


The problem with ethanol is that it absorbs water and falls out of phase with the gas. This is not so much of a problem in a cool dry area like Canada in the winter.

But boats and a lot of small equipment for that matter have open fuel tanks, not closed like in cars. So if they are operated in a humid environment, or in an environment with large temperature fluctuations that cause condensation you can have some pretty serious problems.

You can actually see the water/ethanol settle to the bottom of tanks.

It so bad down south and in inland waterways I won't fill a boat without pumping threw a baja filter.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I would suspect that marine use may open up some conditions that would not otherwise be encountered though. A few years back we installed a fuel separator filter on a cousin's boat due to funny operation. It amazed me how much water was in there though the tank is not easily exposed to rain. No idea why this is, but marine applications may have different encounters with moisture.


Have you ever seen a marina that sells E10?

MA, E0 is not for sale, marina or otherwise.