House votes to block E15 from gas pumps!

[KrisZ]

This is great news, but this is not a cause for celebration. Remember that greed has no boundaries and corn lobby will not give up that easily without a fight.

They had a sweet thing going on, they will be back for more.

 

[CivicFan]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: nthach
I think ethanol has no place in a internal combustion engine. Neither does natural gas.


As an engineer, I'd welcome your reasoning on those.


Probably due to lower caloric value in LNG v petrol. But I would prefer if we had a vastly larger LNG fleet in this country to lower the cost of transportation and increase the air quality.

 

[Shannow]

If 100% EVs are viable as commuters, then I believe that CNG is even moreso.

Suburban route busses are ideal for the stuff.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie

Before E15 can be sold, the EPA must finalize a labeling rule to warn consumers that the higher blend is only for certain vehicles.

Allowing E15 use in a small subset of engines on the road, opponents argue, places consumers at high risk of unknowingly or mistakenly putting E15 in products for which it has not been approved.


So if this was ever to happen in the future, would gas stations have the ability to pump either E10 or E15 so vehicles that can't use over E10 could still use E10?

Glad there was some common sense in the decision on this so far ... hard to say what the future cluster will be.

 

[Diesel1]

Thats your response? I give you the history of something, and thats all you can say? well what do you have questions about? o.o and the amen thing is who are you giving praise to? Ethanol isnt really all that bad since it is renewable. The problem is how we go about it. We're lucky to have the oil supplies we have, so look at the facts.

 

[rpn453]

Originally Posted By: Diesel1
Thats your response? I give you the history of something, and thats all you can say? well what do you have questions about? o.o and the amen thing is who are you giving praise to? Ethanol isnt really all that bad since it is renewable. The problem is how we go about it. We're lucky to have the oil supplies we have, so look at the facts.


I admit that I was also unable to determine your intended statement on this subject. Please provide a summary of the important facts and how they relate to mandating higher ethanol content in fuel.

 

[Diesel1]

I have to do your home work for you too? it was just a history of ethanol, and how we got addicted to oil. Tax increase on ethanol to pay for the civil war is why we switched. To cheap dirty oil, and i mean dirty by how many carbons it has. Oil wasnt put there by some magical being for us to extinguish. Its luck that the right environment presented that product. next time you thank any higher being thank earth first, since its real and supports you.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: Diesel1
Thats your response? I give you the history of something, and thats all you can say? well what do you have questions about? o.o and the amen thing is who are you giving praise to? Ethanol isnt really all that bad since it is renewable. The problem is how we go about it. We're lucky to have the oil supplies we have, so look at the facts.


1 - your post made zero sense to me and others too I may add. I said HUH? because I had no clue what your point was.

2 - I was praising Congress for not making things worse for us by allowing the EPA to force E15 on us. E10 is bad enough

3 - I am not morally against ethanol but I do not feel it's use as a blend additive/extender makes any sense. It also comes with it's share of problems such as shorter life span than gas, moisture issues, and it can grow a funky algea like substance when left in a tank for a while. It returns lower fuel economy as well. Ethanol is not a perfect fuel by any stretch and IMO as an additive/extender it is a flop.

Using small amounts of ethanol in our fuel is expensive( cost more for E10 than 100% gas ), impacts food crops, and reduces fuel economy. I don't see how going to E15 which would reduce fuel economy further and raise the price of the fuel further is a good thing for any of us? Many vehciles on the road not to mention boats, motorcycles, ATV's, snowmobiles, etc... can not run it.

If ethanol is the answer then we need to find a way to do so similar to Brazil where ethanol is the primary fuel used and not just an additive/extender to regular gas, we need to also lower the cost of producing it and the impact of doing so on food prices, and we need to get vehicles on the road that can run it at or near 100%.

IMO telling the EPA no on E15 is a great thing for our country. I wish they would have told them no to E10. I lost 2 MPG when that crud showed up here.

 

[subiedriver]

All I know is they better clearly label E-10 and E-15 at the gas pump, I'm not putting E-15 in my car, unless the EPA wants to buy me an engine!

I'm still hoping it never comes to fruition.

 

[SZR48207]

For what it's worth, in OK (specifically Oklahoma City) the majority of the "gas buying consumer base" is in favor of pure gas (E0). I actually have a choice of buying either type when I go pretty much anywhere within the metro area.

Most of the 100% gas stations are Conoco Philips type stations (independently owned --- non franchise) or Murphy USA (Wal Mart gas station). All of our 7-11 gas stations are owned separately from the national chain by some local guy, and he recently built a brand new 7-11 in Moore, OK that has dedicated 100% gas pumps and the sign for the building advertises its availability with a different "product color". A grocery franchise here called Homeland also recently built gas pumps and have a dedicated 100% gas side.

 

[rpn453]

Originally Posted By: Diesel1
I have to do your home work for you too? it was just a history of ethanol, and how we got addicted to oil. Tax increase on ethanol to pay for the civil war is why we switched. To cheap dirty oil, and i mean dirty by how many carbons it has. Oil wasnt put there by some magical being for us to extinguish. Its luck that the right environment presented that product. next time you thank any higher being thank earth first, since its real and supports you.


The history doesn't change the current situation. If we want to replace oil with alcohol, we need to find an efficient way to do it; one that doesn't rely on using an oil-energy based farming system to produce less energy than it consumes. We also need to use any ethanol we produce efficiently, not by trying to run more through engines that are not designed for it. There's no question in my mind that our current system is unsustainable. We are like a cancer to our earth and we'll experience grave consequences if we don't find a way to contain ourselves.

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
If 100% EVs are viable as commuters, then I believe that CNG is even moreso.

Suburban route busses are ideal for the stuff.

San Francisco Muni found CNG buses to be nothing but trouble. They stuck to diesel with PM traps and hybrid buses - but the trackless trolley still rules in SF. And I don't think the hundreds of CNG buses and trucks in LA/Orange County isn't helping their cause at well.

 

[Diesel1]

Well good person of earth thank you for agreeing with me, and reading thoroughly. The facts are oil will extinguish its supply, so much faster based on our thirst for it. Thank you and anyone else for having an open mind about many things. With that the human race may be able to evolve further. In my first post i was staying relevant to the topic of furthering our technologies. I tho do own a 77 carbed chevy with oem fuel supply and delivery. There has been no corrosion, or destruction of classic rubber plumbing. I do understand that the use in high moisture situations are not the best, but boats are honestly so destructive to our significant water supply. what do you propose to be a real alternative?

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: Diesel1
Well good person of earth thank you for agreeing with me, and reading thoroughly. The facts are oil will extinguish its supply, so much faster based on our thirst for it. Thank you and anyone else for having an open mind about many things. With that the human race may be able to evolve further. In my first post i was staying relevant to the topic of furthering our technologies. I tho do own a 77 carbed chevy with oem fuel supply and delivery. There has been no corrosion, or destruction of classic rubber plumbing. I do understand that the use in high moisture situations are not the best, but boats are honestly so destructive to our significant water supply. what do you propose to be a real alternative?


You are turning this into an argument that is uncalled for and you are being very insulting in the process. Doesn't seem like your mind is very open either as you completely dismiss/ignore the very real and legit concerns with the use of ethanol blended fuels.

The actual topic was the Congress stopping the EPA from implamenting E15 which would cause a lot of problems. The topic was not the history of ethanol nor was this thread some kind of environmental group soap box. If I had the answer to our fuel needs I would be a rich man. I never said crude was an infinite product either. Don't put words in my mouth.

I certainly can see however that Ethanol blends are not the answer. We use a lot of crude to grow the crops for it( refined into diesel )and it uses a lot of crude to make it( energy used at ethanol plants )and the end result is ethanol blended gas lowers our fuel economy. We also pay more for that ethanol blended fuel than 100% gas to boot. How does that help anything?

I care about the environment as well but common sense and praticality need to enter into the discussion at some point. Ethanol fuels under our current setup are NOT the answer to weening us off oil. It is not a perfect solution and has a lot of issues and problems associated with it. Knee jerk reactions and feel good laws such as E10 and E15 by the government are not the answer either.

My 4-stroke fuel injected 40 HP outboard is far less desctructive to our environment than your 1970's pickup.

 

[SteveSRT8]

X2!

We've been running biodegradeable oil in our two strokes for years.

Don't start telling others about damage to "Mother Gaea" unless you walk the walk!

One 1970 clunker can emit as much pollutants as THOUSANDS of new vehicles!

 

[TooManyWheels]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
If 100% EVs are viable as commuters, then I believe that CNG is even moreso.

Suburban route busses are ideal for the stuff.


Our local transit authority ran combination diesel - LNG/CNG buses for years on a test basis. I don't know if they have increased or decreased in the fleet. I can say that at the timeI had inside information on their maintenance, they were not causing huge problems.

I just did some Googling - Here is a result.

 

[rcy]

Originally Posted By: Diesel1
To who something that either doesn't listen, care, or exist? How about some history on oil. http://www.radford.edu/wkovarik/papers/fuel.html Why cant we allow humanity as a whole to further itself instead of hindrance? Honestly some updating of deficiencies isn't beneficial?


All your base are belong to us!!!

 

[goodtimes]

Originally Posted By: rpn453
Originally Posted By: Diesel1
I have to do your home work for you too? it was just a history of ethanol, and how we got addicted to oil. Tax increase on ethanol to pay for the civil war is why we switched. To cheap dirty oil, and i mean dirty by how many carbons it has. Oil wasnt put there by some magical being for us to extinguish. Its luck that the right environment presented that product. next time you thank any higher being thank earth first, since its real and supports you.


The history doesn't change the current situation. If we want to replace oil with alcohol, we need to find an efficient way to do it; one that doesn't rely on using an oil-energy based farming system to produce less energy than it consumes. We also need to use any ethanol we produce efficiently, not by trying to run more through engines that are not designed for it. There's no question in my mind that our current system is unsustainable. We are like a cancer to our earth and we'll experience grave consequences if we don't find a way to contain ourselves.


Where is a good old fashioned species wiping out giant asteroid when you need one.

 

[Diesel1]

Your right about the topic, and how have i strayed? Sorry if your insulted i was justing being polite, and having a clear and concise format for you. As many have said before its how we go about our busyness that lets us live a life worth being proud of. and since im being so closed minded think of how many boats run around with carbed v8s. Tell me how expelling exhaust into are water supply is well>? Dont assume i have a pick up, since is makes an [censored] out of who>? I just want you to be a good member of earth, and think proactive.

 

[Diesel1]

you really care buy buying one of the least efficient engine designs ever. What is this mother gaea? I see facts that are real bud there is no god, and why fight about it too many have died in pointless crusades. Think of what our society would be like if that hadn't had happened, and if scientist weren't prosecuted for thinking different. I have cats tho since i do care and am educated. please don't assume, and lets further humanity.