House Hunting: Mold in Conditioned Crawl Space Downplayed by Listing Realtor

[LoneRanger]

We looked at a house this weekend. It was perfect size for us, loved everything about including private backyard butting up to treeline with lake and field behind it, six burner gas range oven in a gourmet designed kitchen w/ island, tray ceiling and more, double sided fireplace, wood flooring in good shape throughout. But..... Seems there's always a but.

Noticed the crawl space door open and a common consumer grade electric fan just inside the door running as if to vent the space of air. Well that was because apparently it was discovered that there was a water leak in one of the bathrooms that'd gone unknown long enough to "cause some black mold" in the crawl space. And as there were no vents in the foundation walls whatsoever for the crawl space, my suspicions were soon confirmed that this newer house was built with a conditioned crawl space tied to the central heat/air hvac and there are in fact zero foundation vents. I saw no ultraviolet light treatment system on the return plenum which often a conditioned crawl space like this one that draws some return air out of the crawl space and intermixes it with home interior air, will have an ultra violet light system installed on the return plenum in a serviceable area usually near where the return plenum feeds into blower air box. An ultra violet light system supposedly can neutralize mold spores present in the hvac air stream but I think they're only marginally effective, not sure.

From the look of the household electric fan being used at the crawl space entry I'd have to take a stab and say it might be a DIY remediation, or at best maybe they just discovered it and wanted to do something, anything, before bringing in a professional contractor to estimate a repair strategy and cost. DEFINITELY an inspection item and likely any home inspector is going to fail it and require professional remediation, especially in light of the fact that the crawl space air where the mold is present, is comingled with home interior air.

Anyhow, someone came in behind us and offered above asking price for the place, so go figure. Hope they can successfully negotiate the mold remediation in their purchase contract.

 

[eljefino]

You might want to notify the Board of Health or simply the new owners. Write them a letter in a month. Since you informed the realtor of the mold problem they can't brush it under the rug, and this is info the new owners might want to know about. Plus their health.

 

[CT8]

Mold where? On the wood? Stinky dirt?

 

[LoneRanger]

I should have been clearer. The listing realtor mentioned that mold was present in the crawl space from an recently discovered bathroom water leak that had gone undetected. So they were divulging the info, but it appeared to me she was also down playing it. As for where the mold was, it was said to be on wood in the crawl space that the water had apparently possibly been getting some wood wet for a period of time. Another couple offered on the home after the open house, I believe it's going Pending now. I hope they hire a reputable mold remediation restoration contractor to fix it up.

Actually any insurance co will not underwrite a new policy on a home until such an issue has been professionally repaired, remediated, and then re-inspected by an inspector of the insurance co's choice.

 

[AZjeff]

Not your problem to get involved in. Sounds like you're in a hot market.

 

[Leo99]

She is trying to sell the house. Why wouldn't she downplay its severity?

 

[hatt]

I'm not sure what the sales agent is suppose to do besides disclose the issue.

 

[maxdustington]

Originally Posted by Leo99
She is trying to sell the house. Why wouldn't she downplay its severity?
+1 as long as she was honest with you. Even if they old owners knew, they could have just done nothing and sold it knowingly. They left clues that the new owners will have to pay someone to follow.

Undiscovered leak that "only got the wood" yet left all the drywall screwed to it safe and dry. That's where I would draw the line between disclosure and dishonesty.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted by Leo99
She is trying to sell the house. Why wouldn't she downplay its severity?


Exactly, no sale no commission. Partial honesty, classic..........

 

[Andrew1972]

If info was divulged the real estate agent was correct to "downplay" it. Only a professional estimate can assess what it should cost to fix and be part of the offered price.

Yes hopefully the person who put in offer included the remediation for it. They cannot do an inspection and bring up an item already revealed to them.

 

[KrisZ]

I'm not sure how it works in most of US, but in Ontario, Canada the real estate agent, as well as any house inspector you may hire, are not in any way responsible for stuff you find once you buy the house.

The system is designed beautifully to extract as much money as possible from the home buyer with as little liability as possible. In most cases there is no liability at all.
New houses are can be breaking all sorts of building codes despite being "inspected" by city inspectors. Good luck getting any sort of liability form them.

Building permits are actually used for assessing the house market value and getting appropriate taxation rather than guaranteeing the work being done.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted by KrisZ
I'm not sure how it works in most of US, but in Ontario, Canada the real estate agent, as well as any house inspector you may hire, are not in any way responsible for stuff you find once you buy the house.

The system is designed beautifully to extract as much money as possible from the home buyer with as little liability as possible. In most cases there is no liability at all.
New houses are can be breaking all sorts of building codes despite being "inspected" by city inspectors. Good luck getting any sort of liability form them.

Building permits are actually used for assessing the house market value and getting appropriate taxation rather than guaranteeing the work being done.

Why would a real estate agent be responsible for defects in a house that no one knows about? I don't go digging around looking for defects. That's not my job.

 

[maxdustington]

Originally Posted by KrisZ
I'm not sure how it works in most of US, but in Ontario, Canada the real estate agent, as well as any house inspector you may hire, are not in any way responsible for stuff you find once you buy the house.
Don't try to get financing without an inspection, that's the best part. Home inspectors seem to be failed contractors most of the time. I'd rather an inspection done by someone who actually wrenches than some soft old man.

Originally Posted by KrisZ
Building permits are actually used for assessing the house market value and getting appropriate taxation rather than guaranteeing the work being done.
I disagree, I live in Toronto and work in construction and it stops people from taking advantage of others and hiding their work. Also, it stops people from becoming slum landlords and renting out Harry Potter apartments. I've seen that first hand.

Strong regulatory bodies are important especially when a lot of people turn a profit in the housing market with mysterious foreign money.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by LoneRanger
I should have been clearer. The listing realtor mentioned that mold was present in the crawl space from an recently discovered bathroom water leak that had gone undetected. So they were divulging the info, but it appeared to me she was also down playing it. As for where the mold was, it was said to be on wood in the crawl space that the water had apparently possibly been getting some wood wet for a period of time. Another couple offered on the home after the open house, I believe it's going Pending now. I hope they hire a reputable mold remediation restoration contractor to fix it up.

Actually any insurance co will not underwrite a new policy on a home until such an issue has been professionally repaired, remediated, and then re-inspected by an inspector of the insurance co's choice.


Lots of owners tend to be really concerned about mold, but there was a court case about the whole thing years ago and the whole thing got thrown out of court because the judge said there wasn't enough scientific evidence that mold caused any of those problems. The issue is that mold is naturally occurring, you're exposed to it the minute you walk out the door. There's many ways to handle the mold, from mold killer from Home Depot in a $10 bottle or all the way up to a full crew in tyvek gear. Anyway, in our state, there isn't even any mold inspector or certification by the state. Anyone can call themselves a mold inspector or a mold remediation company, and bingo there you go.

As for the insurance company, it depends, lots of them will just write a policy without inspecting the property. Sometimes they try to come in to take a look but most of the time they just do a drive by. Insurance companies don't require you to get a home inspection before buying insurance and it can by waived by the buyer.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by maxdustington
Originally Posted by KrisZ
I'm not sure how it works in most of US, but in Ontario, Canada the real estate agent, as well as any house inspector you may hire, are not in any way responsible for stuff you find once you buy the house.
Don't try to get financing without an inspection, that's the best part. Home inspectors seem to be failed contractors most of the time. I'd rather an inspection done by someone who actually wrenches than some soft old man.



My favorite home inspectors have been previous contractors. The ones who don't even have a contractor's license are even worse. The reason the one I used got into the business was that he was tired of too many unreliable employees in that field. Seems like they're always getting drunk or getting arrested or for whatever reason not showing up for the job. Still happens to me when I hire people to do a job, I know that about 1/4 of the time, they won't show up for whatever reason, sometimes it's an emergency that they have to handle for another customer and sometimes it's the above.

And yeah, the contracts here say that if an inspector misses something, the only liability that they have is the cost of the inspection. So you might get your $500 back for the inspection after you find a 10k problem. That tends to kill repeat business so that's why I prefer to find an inspector that's good and not get someone who calls you up later to complain about a problem they just found.

 

[philipp10]

I don't understand "the downplayed" part. They disclosed it....that's the law. If you are or were so worried, the balls in your court to ask for another more detailed inspection or remediation.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by philipp10
I don't understand "the downplayed" part. They disclosed it....that's the law. If you are or were so worried, the balls in your court to ask for another more detailed inspection or remediation.


Yeah, it's pretty standard to downplay the negatives. Do people really expect them to say "You don't want to live here, it's got mold!".

It'll buff right out!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vjAXB3G4Ys

 

[DONWATERS]

My last 3 houses were forclosures, roof and plumbing leaks, power off for months, mold here and there. Some on the walls too. Fix the leaks and the house dries out and its fine. Mold has been around since people have. Not a big deal IMO.

My newest Tracker sat in a backyard with the top ripped for 9 months, it was full of mold, scrubbed it out and left it in the sun, its fine.

 

[maxdustington]

Originally Posted by Wolf359
My favorite home inspectors have been previous contractors. The ones who don't even have a contractor's license are even worse. The reason the one I used got into the business was that he was tired of too many unreliable employees in that field. Seems like they're always getting drunk or getting arrested or for whatever reason not showing up for the job. Still happens to me when I hire people to do a job, I know that about 1/4 of the time, they won't show up for whatever reason, sometimes it's an emergency that they have to handle for another customer and sometimes it's the above.
It's all about $$$, man. People have to be motivated by something other than altruism, craftsmanship or professionalism.

 

[SeaJay]

Ask for a professional remediation of the issue and see what the seller's broker says in response. The homeowners insurer may, or may not inspect for mold and may or may not require a remediation of the issue.