Just wondering if it is appropriate to keep such hatred threads on bitog as the one named "Some Chinese and Japanese History"? It is totally unacceptable me and I hope for the bitog owners too.
Hatred thread
- Thread starter Prelude
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did you click "notify?" Best just to notify the mods and let them evaluate else you just bring attention to it.
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Not really hatred, is it. Ugly history is not necessarily hatred. Is there something untrue in there?
MolaKule
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It is a thread and discussion about historical events.
A true hatred thread is a totally different matter, and I didn't see it there.
A true hatred thread is a totally different matter, and I didn't see it there.
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I did not notice the notify button.
To Pablo: The facts discussed there are not necessarily untrue. But the discussion goes far beyond being neutral and free of politics. It is really ugly.
To Pablo: The facts discussed there are not necessarily untrue. But the discussion goes far beyond being neutral and free of politics. It is really ugly.
I've gotta be honest, I'm finding it very informative and relatively non-inflammatory compared to what I was expecting when this thread pointed me to it. I didn't learn about any of this in school.
I don't find it political, nor does it even remotely cross in to religion/sex. Sometimes the truth is brutal. I'm sorry you feel differently. But to call it "hatred" is totally inappropriate and offensive to those that posted in that thread.
Originally Posted By: rationull
I didn't learn about any of this in school.
As did I. Thankfully my Dad is a WWII buff and taught me about the atrocities of the Pacific theater.
I didn't learn about any of this in school.
As did I. Thankfully my Dad is a WWII buff and taught me about the atrocities of the Pacific theater.
Originally Posted By: Prelude
I did not notice the notify button.
To Pablo: The facts discussed there are not necessarily untrue. But the discussion goes far beyond being neutral and free of politics. It is really ugly.
Ugly for sure. But without ugly there is no beauty.
And this urge to hide the ugly doesn't usually workout for mankind, in fact I could argue that the consequence is usually 180° from intention.
I did not notice the notify button.
To Pablo: The facts discussed there are not necessarily untrue. But the discussion goes far beyond being neutral and free of politics. It is really ugly.
Ugly for sure. But without ugly there is no beauty.
And this urge to hide the ugly doesn't usually workout for mankind, in fact I could argue that the consequence is usually 180° from intention.
Originally Posted By: Prelude
Just wondering if it is appropriate to keep such hatred threads on bitog as the one named "Some Chinese and Japanese History"? It is totally unacceptable me and I hope for the bitog owners too.
Please read up on the subject, particularly annexation and what happened in Nanking. Take in how many civilians died and what happened with Unit 731. http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/stories/s661377.htm
As I said in my previous post, I learnt of these things in High School, but it appears as if it isn't common knowledge in the US.
Please read the book I listed in my post, it is written by an eminent historian who headed the Institute for Advanced Studies at the Australian National University from '74-'89 and was the Pacific Member for the UNESCO Commission on the Scientific and Cultural History of Humankind, not some crank.
Japanese atrocities in the Pacific between 1900 and 1945 are well documented, and in this country at least, well known as many, many POW's didn't survive incarceration, particularly the Thai-Burma railway.
From a POW perspective a very good and balanced read is the 'The War Diaries of Weary Dunlop', an acclaimed surgeon who buried many comrades in those camps. He bore no animosity towards the Japanese or the Korean guards.
Read about the infamous Sandakan-Ranau death march. http://www.sandakan-deathmarch.com/
Read Nurse Vivian Bullwinkle's account of her shipwrecked nurses being machine gunned by soldiers as the were forced to walk into the surf inline and her amazing survival only to end up in a POW camp.
None of this is hateful, it is history in the same way that The Holocaust, Stalin's purges, Mao's cultural revolution, even Australia's shocking treatment of our indigenous people should be discussed and acknowledged.
Just wondering if it is appropriate to keep such hatred threads on bitog as the one named "Some Chinese and Japanese History"? It is totally unacceptable me and I hope for the bitog owners too.
Please read up on the subject, particularly annexation and what happened in Nanking. Take in how many civilians died and what happened with Unit 731. http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/stories/s661377.htm
As I said in my previous post, I learnt of these things in High School, but it appears as if it isn't common knowledge in the US.
Please read the book I listed in my post, it is written by an eminent historian who headed the Institute for Advanced Studies at the Australian National University from '74-'89 and was the Pacific Member for the UNESCO Commission on the Scientific and Cultural History of Humankind, not some crank.
Japanese atrocities in the Pacific between 1900 and 1945 are well documented, and in this country at least, well known as many, many POW's didn't survive incarceration, particularly the Thai-Burma railway.
From a POW perspective a very good and balanced read is the 'The War Diaries of Weary Dunlop', an acclaimed surgeon who buried many comrades in those camps. He bore no animosity towards the Japanese or the Korean guards.
Read about the infamous Sandakan-Ranau death march. http://www.sandakan-deathmarch.com/
Read Nurse Vivian Bullwinkle's account of her shipwrecked nurses being machine gunned by soldiers as the were forced to walk into the surf inline and her amazing survival only to end up in a POW camp.
None of this is hateful, it is history in the same way that The Holocaust, Stalin's purges, Mao's cultural revolution, even Australia's shocking treatment of our indigenous people should be discussed and acknowledged.
All true. However, how long would a thread detailing such things as the way America dealt with the natives in the past couple of centuries, or slavery, etc. last on BITOG? I imagine not very long.
Anything that doesn't whitewash or in some way excuse some of our behaviour, especially in recent wars would quickly be done away with.
Anything that doesn't whitewash or in some way excuse some of our behaviour, especially in recent wars would quickly be done away with.
Lets just censor and rewrite history because the truth of it is shameful...
How can we be expected to move forward if the "course of human events" has been made unclear due to nothing less than censorship? If we don't know the mistakes we've made in the past, how can we avoid them in the future?
I say keep the thread open and let the truth be heard.
"Hate thread" what a crock of [censored].
And if somebody wants to post one about America's atrocities that are not well known, I'd welcome it. Or at least not request it's censorship.
How can we be expected to move forward if the "course of human events" has been made unclear due to nothing less than censorship? If we don't know the mistakes we've made in the past, how can we avoid them in the future?
I say keep the thread open and let the truth be heard.
"Hate thread" what a crock of [censored].
And if somebody wants to post one about America's atrocities that are not well known, I'd welcome it. Or at least not request it's censorship.
+1 IF it turned "unfactual" and into the hate USA bash as it always does. Seems like the truth never seems to get out here. On certain recent events some are typically accusing the USA of something just because they read it in our warped press and never seem to get another viewpoint.
While the US has throughout history done some atrocious things, they pale in comparison to the atrocities in the Pacific theater during WWII by the Japanese. I don't consider fire bombing Dresden or Tokyo in the same league as the Nanking massacre. Yes, the US and the Allied soldiers did some atrocious things on the ground as well (starving German prisoners to death after the war), but to my knowledge, the US didn't undertake any holocausts.
What's the matter mate, can't handle the truth? I'll have a chat with the mother in law today and get some more for you.
Call it a holocaust or not, what we did to the various native peoples here was evil.
Not on nearly the same scale as what the Japanese did, of course.
And I wouldn't let Germany have such a pass either. Millions of people were gassed and otherwise murdered by Nazis and many Germans did nothing about it. One of my great-uncles was a POW in Europe, and though he came back home, he certainly didn't have much good to say about his experience.
At the same time, he bears no hatred for Germans, only for their government during that time.
As far as more recent history in every war there have been American soldiers who committed atrocities, and there always will be. I don't see how talking about them is a "hate USA bash".
Not on nearly the same scale as what the Japanese did, of course.
And I wouldn't let Germany have such a pass either. Millions of people were gassed and otherwise murdered by Nazis and many Germans did nothing about it. One of my great-uncles was a POW in Europe, and though he came back home, he certainly didn't have much good to say about his experience.
At the same time, he bears no hatred for Germans, only for their government during that time.
As far as more recent history in every war there have been American soldiers who committed atrocities, and there always will be. I don't see how talking about them is a "hate USA bash".
I think there are other colors besides red and blue.
And something either happened or it didn't.
And something either happened or it didn't.
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