I , like you try to buy American whenever I can. It is getting increasingly tougher and tougher. I am happy to say I was able to buy an American made dishwasher ( $200 more than the Chinese made one) and an American made BBQ grill ($300 more than the Chinese made one). Comparing them side by side, the quality and materials of the American made units were well worth the price. Sadly, when it comes to clothing, if I can't find Made in USA. I at least buy an American brand since the Corporate jobs are here.
Harbor Freight Tools, Again
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No more Fruit of the loom or Russell for me. In fact I'm going try to research their subsidiaries and boycott their products too.
Originally Posted By: johnachak
Tools made here are made in a factory, usually on a line by several workers (here). They are then packed by another worker, loaded onto a truck by a forklift operator and from that point on, the paths of the foreign tools and American made tools are the same. HF employees can still stock them and drivers will still deliver and unload them.
A BIG difference is that the American factory gets its supplies from American suppliers, utilities from American utility companies. The American company has support / administrative jobs here in USA. All of those employees pay US and local taxes as well as S.S. taxes. Their salaries go to support other Americans who provide them with, food, medical and other necessities. That is a large help to the American and local economies.
So, lets recap, foreign made=
non Americans make these items, package and load them onto container on a truck driven by another Non american in China (Or substitute, Taiwan or India if you like). The container is then loaded onto a freighter by non Americans in China (Or in whatever other than USA country) a small (Maybe 10 person) crew will bring these items to the US port for one crane operator to load the sealed container onto a flatbed truck for one American driver to move to a distribution point at which point the same number of Americans will handle both.
So having things intentionally more expensive is good for American consumers?
Who makes the dock cranes and lifts? Who maintains them? Who makes the grease and lube for them? This can go on to infinuim and NO ONE can fully understand it.
There are a great many reasons why individual corporations manufacture where they do, and it should be their decision to make. It should also be the prerogative of individuals to purchase what they want, from other individuals, regardless of where they are.
The dichotomy of USA vs. China is nation against nation, but this is INHERENTLY FLAWED. You are buying things from people that have made a product that just happen to be in a different country.
Tools made here are made in a factory, usually on a line by several workers (here). They are then packed by another worker, loaded onto a truck by a forklift operator and from that point on, the paths of the foreign tools and American made tools are the same. HF employees can still stock them and drivers will still deliver and unload them.
A BIG difference is that the American factory gets its supplies from American suppliers, utilities from American utility companies. The American company has support / administrative jobs here in USA. All of those employees pay US and local taxes as well as S.S. taxes. Their salaries go to support other Americans who provide them with, food, medical and other necessities. That is a large help to the American and local economies.
So, lets recap, foreign made=
non Americans make these items, package and load them onto container on a truck driven by another Non american in China (Or substitute, Taiwan or India if you like). The container is then loaded onto a freighter by non Americans in China (Or in whatever other than USA country) a small (Maybe 10 person) crew will bring these items to the US port for one crane operator to load the sealed container onto a flatbed truck for one American driver to move to a distribution point at which point the same number of Americans will handle both.
So having things intentionally more expensive is good for American consumers?
Who makes the dock cranes and lifts? Who maintains them? Who makes the grease and lube for them? This can go on to infinuim and NO ONE can fully understand it.
There are a great many reasons why individual corporations manufacture where they do, and it should be their decision to make. It should also be the prerogative of individuals to purchase what they want, from other individuals, regardless of where they are.
The dichotomy of USA vs. China is nation against nation, but this is INHERENTLY FLAWED. You are buying things from people that have made a product that just happen to be in a different country.
Quote:
Comparing them side by side, the quality and materials of the American made units were well worth the price.
Then you are buying on price vs. value, which is as you should. Are people "bad" if they buy a foreign good that is superior to a USA made product?
Comparing them side by side, the quality and materials of the American made units were well worth the price.
Then you are buying on price vs. value, which is as you should. Are people "bad" if they buy a foreign good that is superior to a USA made product?
Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
I just want them to sell more Amer
I'll take trickle down wealth over trickle up poverty any day.
HF is a very useful chain in that they carry a lot of products that just aren't made here anymore for great prices. I just wish they would carry a line of "professional" tools made here. As long as they didn't make the manufacturer sacrifice quality for price as it appears Sears did. I'm sure manufacturers like Wright, Kastar and others here in the US would love a contract like that. It would be nice to go to the same store to pick a cheap tool for a one time project and a lifetime US tool.
Quote:
I just want them to sell more Amer
I'll take trickle down wealth over trickle up poverty any day.
HF is a very useful chain in that they carry a lot of products that just aren't made here anymore for great prices. I just wish they would carry a line of "professional" tools made here. As long as they didn't make the manufacturer sacrifice quality for price as it appears Sears did. I'm sure manufacturers like Wright, Kastar and others here in the US would love a contract like that. It would be nice to go to the same store to pick a cheap tool for a one time project and a lifetime US tool.
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Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
Comparing them side by side, the quality and materials of the American made units were well worth the price.
Then you are buying on price vs. value, which is as you should. Are people "bad" if they buy a foreign good that is superior to a USA made product?
Bad, no, making a decision not in the best interests of our economy and future in My opinion, yes.
Quote:
Comparing them side by side, the quality and materials of the American made units were well worth the price.
Then you are buying on price vs. value, which is as you should. Are people "bad" if they buy a foreign good that is superior to a USA made product?
Bad, no, making a decision not in the best interests of our economy and future in My opinion, yes.
We are really getting off topic here. Buying from people who just happen to be in a different country, yes, but their people are working and many of ours are not. We can continue this by PM if you like. Back to Harbor freight please.
Quote:
You are buying things from people that have made a product that just happen to be in a different country.
When a tiny country like Germany is snapping at the heels of the USA right behind China as the worlds second largest exporter there is something terribly wrong.
Germany now has a drive for workers preferably from first world countries, they don't have enough highly skilled labor.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2078rank.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_exports
You are buying things from people that have made a product that just happen to be in a different country.
When a tiny country like Germany is snapping at the heels of the USA right behind China as the worlds second largest exporter there is something terribly wrong.
Germany now has a drive for workers preferably from first world countries, they don't have enough highly skilled labor.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2078rank.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_exports
OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
You are buying things from people that have made a product that just happen to be in a different country.
When a tiny country like Germany is snapping at the heels of the USA right behind China as the worlds second largest exporter there is something terribly wrong.
Germany now has a drive for workers preferably from first world countries, they don't have enough highly skilled labor.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2078rank.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_exports
It is by no accident that this tiny little piece of Europe has managed to start two world wars and almost succeeded in taking over the entire continent.
The "buy German" crowd is much, MUCH stronger than the "buy USA" crowd. There is no "Walmart effect" in Germany, no Harbour Freight.
When the *expletive* hits the fan with China, the only country with enough manufacturing capability to take them on and the brains to out-engineer them is going to be Germany. They are an example of how things should be in North America, not this Supersize-Me Walmart China-fueled Gong Show we call society.
I bought some USA-made 14-4 wire for my McIntosh sub box today. Still doing my part here.
Quote:
You are buying things from people that have made a product that just happen to be in a different country.
When a tiny country like Germany is snapping at the heels of the USA right behind China as the worlds second largest exporter there is something terribly wrong.
Germany now has a drive for workers preferably from first world countries, they don't have enough highly skilled labor.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2078rank.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_exports
It is by no accident that this tiny little piece of Europe has managed to start two world wars and almost succeeded in taking over the entire continent.
The "buy German" crowd is much, MUCH stronger than the "buy USA" crowd. There is no "Walmart effect" in Germany, no Harbour Freight.
When the *expletive* hits the fan with China, the only country with enough manufacturing capability to take them on and the brains to out-engineer them is going to be Germany. They are an example of how things should be in North America, not this Supersize-Me Walmart China-fueled Gong Show we call society.
I bought some USA-made 14-4 wire for my McIntosh sub box today. Still doing my part here.
Kestas
Staff member
Originally Posted By: johnachak
I just wish they would carry a line of "professional" tools made here.
Don't we already have something like that? It's called Snap-On. We DIYers don't buy it because it's expensive. But we have the choice of quality when it comes to buying tools.
The Craftsman tools I bought 25 years ago were just right for this goldilocks.
I just wish they would carry a line of "professional" tools made here.
Don't we already have something like that? It's called Snap-On. We DIYers don't buy it because it's expensive. But we have the choice of quality when it comes to buying tools.
The Craftsman tools I bought 25 years ago were just right for this goldilocks.
Comparing a German manufacturer versus US manufacturer would get us in a complete different argument. How many of you really want to go there?
Point blank:- Why has Germany not off-shored their manufacturing? What is the relationship of a factory owner to factory workers in that country? Does anybody here believes that USA is ready to emulate German environment including worker rights and benefits?
Point blank:- Why has Germany not off-shored their manufacturing? What is the relationship of a factory owner to factory workers in that country? Does anybody here believes that USA is ready to emulate German environment including worker rights and benefits?
Originally Posted By: Kestas
Originally Posted By: johnachak
I just wish they would carry a line of "professional" tools made here.
Don't we already have something like that? It's called Snap-On. We DIYers don't buy it because it's expensive. But we have the choice of quality when it comes to buying tools.
The Craftsman tools I bought 25 years ago were just right for this goldilocks.
Yes we do, But, since Sears has dropped the ball, we could use a Large, easily accessible chain store to service us backyard / part time mechanics who have no Snap on or Matco trucks in the area.
Originally Posted By: johnachak
I just wish they would carry a line of "professional" tools made here.
Don't we already have something like that? It's called Snap-On. We DIYers don't buy it because it's expensive. But we have the choice of quality when it comes to buying tools.
The Craftsman tools I bought 25 years ago were just right for this goldilocks.
Yes we do, But, since Sears has dropped the ball, we could use a Large, easily accessible chain store to service us backyard / part time mechanics who have no Snap on or Matco trucks in the area.
Kestas
Staff member
You're probably right. If there is such a void in the market, I suspect someone will step up and fill it.
I don't think chinese sourced tools or whatever else are necessarily sold for much less than American made can be. But since the outsourced and imported products are here and taking market share, a budget US made line of products wouldn't have enought market share and economies of scale to be very feasible.
So there is a void between overpriced and quality US tools like Snap on and HF and other lower to mid quality outsourced tools. But I don't think the market for a medium priced/quality US made products is big enough. American made products can be affordable but they need high volume to do so. The imports are taking up most of the volume. People buy on price and they bjuy on brand. It seems the now chinese sourced Stanley, Kobalt etc are used to fill the midrange between HF and Snap on.
So there is a void between overpriced and quality US tools like Snap on and HF and other lower to mid quality outsourced tools. But I don't think the market for a medium priced/quality US made products is big enough. American made products can be affordable but they need high volume to do so. The imports are taking up most of the volume. People buy on price and they bjuy on brand. It seems the now chinese sourced Stanley, Kobalt etc are used to fill the midrange between HF and Snap on.
I buy both US-made and foreign made tools, but for different uses/purposes.
My last 2 tool buys were a set of Craftsman wrenches for my home and personal use. Forged in USA, not the "evolve" line; and a set of HF's version of the "universal wrenches" for work in the factory. Reasons listed below:
Co-workers tend to steal- rather they take cheap stuff
HF's version also has the ratcheting open end in the design- meaning I can carry less stuff.
The difference in price is about $10 for the set of 7, but that's $10 less that gets stolen on the job from my pocket.
My last 2 tool buys were a set of Craftsman wrenches for my home and personal use. Forged in USA, not the "evolve" line; and a set of HF's version of the "universal wrenches" for work in the factory. Reasons listed below:
Co-workers tend to steal- rather they take cheap stuff
HF's version also has the ratcheting open end in the design- meaning I can carry less stuff.
The difference in price is about $10 for the set of 7, but that's $10 less that gets stolen on the job from my pocket.
working on a subaru forester and have to take the front CV off. the axle nut just would not budge. Trying to stand on a torque wrench (i weigh 300lbs) made no difference. Also tried the cheapo HF $20 impact wrench and it didnt work after hitting it for a good minute.
I picked up the earthquake impact for $80 after coupon, and it whizzed off the axle nut within 10 seconds.
I picked up the earthquake impact for $80 after coupon, and it whizzed off the axle nut within 10 seconds.
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
Trying to stand on a torque wrench (i weigh 300lbs) made no difference.
I hope you tossed the torque wrench in a scrap pile afterwards.
TORQUE WRENCHES ARE NOT BREAKER BARS!
Trying to stand on a torque wrench (i weigh 300lbs) made no difference.
I hope you tossed the torque wrench in a scrap pile afterwards.
TORQUE WRENCHES ARE NOT BREAKER BARS!
Germany is NOT a good agricultural country but does have a large population who want a good standard of living. Thus they need to EXPORT to get $$$ to buy food. This has been true since the middle ages. To realistically export you need either much cheaper or much better products. In addition the German domestic market is not really big enough to support many companies completely. So you are pushed to export to survive (especially the "mittlestand" (sp?)mid sized companies. When I bought my very first car in 1969 (BMW 2002)I noted in the owners manual they had dealers ALL OVER the world, Pago Pago, Tahiti, rural Chile, Iceland, etc. Many of these places sold very few cars. But they had dealers, tools, support.I read recently that Ford were planning to export Lincolns - the first time ever - after all these years. Before, apparently, only a few pirate exporters or individuals built their own supply network and "federalized" their cars to meet local safety regs. We never had to - or cared to - go to these extremes. A large domestic market and uncritical consumers made it unnecessary. A more likely approach for HFT is to build a better quality premium line in Taiwan, leaving China for cheaper stuff and India for the real junk (like Indian blank dvd's).And, IMHO, something in German DNA or culture or water makes Germans better at manufactured things of high quality, at least for large volumes of employees. Let the flames go on!
Originally Posted By: scurvy
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
Trying to stand on a torque wrench (i weigh 300lbs) made no difference.
I hope you tossed the torque wrench in a scrap pile afterwards.
TORQUE WRENCHES ARE NOT BREAKER BARS!
I was also wondering about that.
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
Trying to stand on a torque wrench (i weigh 300lbs) made no difference.
I hope you tossed the torque wrench in a scrap pile afterwards.
TORQUE WRENCHES ARE NOT BREAKER BARS!
I was also wondering about that.
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