Government Employees at, err, Work?

Status
Not open for further replies.

MolaKule

Staff member
Joined
Jun 5, 2002
Messages
24,057
Location
Iowegia - USA
By Willliam Pendley

quote:


Last month, the General Accounting Office (GAO) made headlines with its report that scores of high ranking employees from eight federal agencies had degrees from bogus colleges or unaccredited schools. Worse yet, a GAO spokesman said, "It's a much larger problem than the evidence we have to date shows." That could be an understatement given that just three of the unaccredited schools the GAO examined revealed that 463 current or one-time students are federal employees. Still, some were unfazed; one wit commented: "I'm not as concerned with whether government workers have degrees as with whether they are working at all."

That remark bespeaks the conventional wisdom that government work-excluding the Armed Forces and those in law enforcement--is the epitome of "inside work; no heavy lifting." Moreover, it reflects personal experience: people who have waited on line or on hold or who have heard "that's not my area" too often wonder if anyone works in federal agencies let alone if those working know what they are doing. Often they do not: a 2003 study disclosed that the
IRS gives incorrect answers or no answer at all 43 percent of the time!

An actual, rather than anecdotal, example of a federal employee's work ethic was revealed in testimony in a challenge to a small mining claim in the Plumas National Forest some 100 miles northeast of Sacramento, California.

There Donald Eno, a disabled veteran, seeks to provide for himself by working sixty hour weeks on his gold and travertine discoveries. His years of hard work may pay off: estimates are his gold is worth $650,000; his travertine is
valued at $20 million, or more! However, because of oddities in federal land law, the federal government could eject him from his property, if it can prove that his claim
has no value or that it is more valuable for use as a sacred, scenic, or geological site. Because
local U.S. Forest Service personnel oppose mining in general--in an area that has been mined for over 150 years--that is what they are trying to do.

In a recent administrative proceeding, the United States called, as its expert witness, a Forest Service geologist who testified that Mr. Eno's gold has no economic value. His testimony was not persuasive for numerous reasons, including, errors in basic math, use of the wrong mining equipment, and incorrect economic assumptions. But his most ludicrous assertion was that every hour of dredging-the actual recovery of gold from the stream-required one and
one-half hours of work. Part of that extra time was what the geologist said he needed to get ready to work each day; the other part was for frequent "work breaks." In fact,
over the three days the geologist was at the claim, he averaged two hours a day in the stream recovering gold.

Mr. Eno faulted the geologist's lackadaisical approach to dredging for gold. Eight hours of work is eight hours of work, Mr. Eno argued. Lawyers for the United States countered that the geologist's views are "standard in any business in America." Hardly; however, the geologist's view may be "standard" in the federal government.

At least the geologist was in the stream and dredged for gold, which is more than could be said of another Forest Service employee who testified that Mr. Eno's claim was "sacred" to local American Indians. The purported expert witness did not interview any of those Indians, nearly a quarter of whom disagreed with her conclusions; she called them "statistical outliers." Moreover, as to two key "sacred" features about which the witness testified, she
admitted during cross examination that she had not visited the sites! Perhaps she was on one of the geologist's "work breaks."

Fortunately, the administrative law judge rejected the testimony of the Forest Service employees and ruled for Mr. Eno. Other Americans, however, may not be so fortunate in
their encounter with federal "workers."

(via Mountain States Legal Foundation)

[ June 02, 2004, 11:40 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
 
I see that the Mountain States Legal Foundation is a conservative group which defends property rights.

Speaking of a federal employee's work ethic - It is a shame the original landowners for the Texas Rangers ballpark could not hire the MSLF to defend *their* property rights. Most of GWB's fortune came from the sale of the Texas Rangers, significantly enhanced by the ballpark built on land taken by the government through imminent domain.

Moral of the story - conservatives talk out of which ever side of their mouth suits their purpose at the time.
 
quote:

Originally posted by TooManyWheels:
I see that the Mountain States Legal Foundation is a conservative group which defends property rights.

Speaking of a federal employee's work ethic - It is a shame the original landowners for the Texas Rangers ballpark could not hire the MSLF to defend *their* property rights. Most of GWB's fortune came from the sale of the Texas Rangers, significantly enhanced by the ballpark built on land taken by the government through imminent domain.

Moral of the story - conservatives talk out of which ever side of their mouth suits their purpose at the time.


Correction, its not conservatives, its Politicians in general.
 
Geez attack the people making the statements...typical.

offtopic.gif
Anyone read yesterday's WSJ editorial page? Or this week's US News weekly report? It's not that the press is liberal, it's the rate that it continues to swing left and the fact they can't see the forest for the trees. Some of the so called news magazines - EVERY and I mean EVERY article is an editorial - NOT a fact based news story. I actually feel sorry for folks that "depend" of these sources for news.

Back on target:

There is no doubt is my mind the huge core of government workers would last a day at a real job. Be the workers BPA (Bonneville Power Admin), State, Fed....I have heard loafing stories that make me sh!t a brick. Some days - NO WORK AT ALL.

Sidenote: Anyone listen to Bob Brinker's Moneytalk last weekend and here the lady government worker retired from Calif? Worked 20 years and got a retirement plan $75,000 per year guaranteed + 3% inflation kicker every year... sheesh, no wonder they needed Arnie.
 
Oh give me a break...wouldn't last a day at a real job. Where did you come up with that baloney. I hear this all the time just how "great" the private sectors or contractors are. PUH-LEASE. If they are so great, then why are they not winning all these job competitions that the Fed. Government has put up for grabs? Private sector is cheap. They skim all their profits by using cheaper and inferior products/supplies. They also hire a lot of people at minimum wage, which most Americans won't work for thus, you see more immigrants doing these type of non-skilled labor. Private sector has been cutting a lot of benefits out to include health insurance. Who picks up that tab? Can you say Government? Who outsources a lot of their workloads....can you say private sector? Who has the majority of workmans comp. issues???? private sector. Who has the most lawsuits against them???? Private sector. Who has the most unemployment compensation payouts???? Private sector. I could go on and on because I see it and hear it from my buddies that got out of the Gov. business and went private sector. Just chaps my @ss when someone "assumes" that and has no idea what's happening in the real world. Yes, there are some that are lazy, but works the same in the private sector. You know WHY the Goverments pay so much on contracts???? Private sector with their markups, ghost employees, overhead costs, profit margins....then god help us if we have to hire an 8A company or a minority owned company. They get picked regardless because it is the law, doesn't matter if they know anything or not about what the contract is for. If the simply have the ability to work at it, they will get it..... you have no idea how much time I spend going over details in a contract that are not being completed or are being ignored.
sorry of the rant....I hear/see this all the time with the contracts that I manage. Out.

[ June 03, 2004, 10:48 AM: Message edited by: Schmoe ]
 
quote:

I see that the Mountain States Legal Foundation is a conservative group which defends property rights.

That's just one of the things they do.

I was simply attempting complete disclosure as to the source of the article and giving credit to the source, unlike some thinly veiled MoveOn.org pieces we have seen.

MSLF are only one among many consrvative legal organizations, ILJ is another. Someone has to balance out the radical ACLU.
 
Schmoe, I can't disagree with you more. Government tends to produce nothing. We have toll booth employees here in PA making $75k/year with no layoff clauses being put on the table. Your entire rant is bogus. yes, I'll agree with you on companies that do govt. contract work; I feel they have been tainted by their contact with the complete inefficiency that is the federal govt. And yes, I know many employees of the govt and am very familier with their outrageous compensation plans, like huge pensions and sick days that roll over for an entire career.
 
Schmoe - that dog just doesn't hunt, big guy.

I tell you government worker productivity is a) not measured b) low. Dude, I have all sorts of people I know to reference in Wash. state and Wash DC....some are not proud of the loafing, some still brag about it. THis loafing and the attitude MAY happen at some private companies, but I have NEVER seen it any private company I have worked for in the last 27 years.
 
Yeah those government workers are 'Super Heroes'.The ones I have dealt with will lie to you and give you the run around and make it like it is your fault that they are doing so_One time they will say one thing to you and the next time it will be something completely different and chances are neither is right.There was a 20/20 program not too long ago that showed some of the government jobs that are out there.One job was to test the viscosity of ketchup to make sure it was within guidelines,now that really is an 'IMPORTANT' job,it sure is worth thousands of dollars for someone to do this.
lol.gif
It would be a disaster if a bottle of ketchup is a little thin,it may even be a threat to world security.Maybe we need someone to make sure that all the dill pickles meet a certain standard in taste,that would surely be worthwile.
rolleyes.gif
 
I don't know what "government" ya'll are talking about, but it sure isn't in the Dept. of Defense. The rant wasn't bogus, you just don't know because you don't see what's happening, just what your told from a very few individuals or a news story. Huge pensions???? We all have 401K plans that only pay out what you put in, plus we also pay social security and medicare as well. As far as rollover, those are only for being sick. If you are sick longer than 2 days, then you have to have a doctors slip for it to be excusable. It doesn't count towards your retirement either. And pay? Fed. workers have been consistently paid lower than their private company counterparts. Again, the news media and all their bull. The ketchup "test" as you described is very common in all aspects of testing, however, the person testing it was probably a COR, contractor officer representative that had to test it because it was written in the contract for it to be a certain viscosity. In which if it wasn't, then we'd be getting screwed because of some of the things the private sector tries to pass off.
You don't see the government screwing people over like Enron did. How much money involved??? Ka-billions.
 
quote:

You don't see the government screwing people over like Enron did. How much money involved??? Ka-billions.

Actually, I see it every day. I was personally involved in years of **** because the IRS couldn't figure out their own tax code. They attack innocent individuals every day. No offense to you, but the less government in my life the better. I believe the emperical evidence supports private sector operations as being more efficient. You're using a couple of isolated cases. Lets be realistic here.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Schmoe:

You don't see the government screwing people over like Enron did. How much money involved??? Ka-billions.


And who forces people into the biggest Ponzi scheme ever, social security?
 
Fellas, I have a slightly different take on this. You see, I'm one of the dreaded government workers too--but I'm a state correctional officer. We deal with some real losers, let me assure you. And just like your typical cop or state trooper--also government workers--I face the possibility every day when I go to work that I might not be walking out under my own power.

That said, I get just as torqued off as you when I see five miles of cones blocking highway lanes with nary a worker in sight. I become infuriated hearing about and dealing with idiot government bureaucrats who seem to take pleasure in ruining your life and killing as much of your time as possible. But to be honest, I get very tired of being tarred with the same brush as those jerks.

Remember that at least some federal and state government workers provide constitutionally mandated services at risk to themselves. We're not all lazy or incompetent. (I worked for a business for 10 years before going into corrections. To make a long story short, the politics got tiresome.) Some of us put our lives on the line every day for you. You're welcome.
smile.gif
 
In my rage of government employess,I didnt think to seperate those that are firefighters,EMS workers and police/correctional officers.Thank you for risking your lives.The ones that I get angry with are the ones in government that think they own the government and you are bothering them when you ask a question or need help etc.I get angry at Social Security because a person is told they cant be disabled because of their age and education,yet they have paid in SS for years.I get angry at SS when you cant be disabled because your illness doesnt have a 'blood test' that proves you are sick,yet there are those that are to sorry to work and the gov. bends over backwards to help them.Government workers are for the most part jokes.They could care less if you get the help you need and will lie to you in the process,it would be awful if they had to actually do any work in their 8 hour day to help a person.
rolleyes.gif
Government workers will 'misplace' paper work to a case,they will drag their feet,they will allow paper work to go undone and they will tell you half truths and mistreat you and you have no real recourse.Some of these are facts known by me personally and no one can tell me they arent true or that they arent wide spread problems.The same goes for the majority of government workers, they are a joke,as long as they put in their time,that is all they care about.
 
I've got to pu my hand up as a Government employee, and say that we aren't all bludgers (at least not in the power industry).

Back in the bad old days (and they were bad, with demarcation, seniority based promotions, overtime rosters etc. etc.) there were 600 employees at one of the power stations that I work at...it's now 100. The other power station had an "ideal" staffing of 144, now it's 100 also. We no longer have an engineering branch in head office (there used to be another 100 engineers per station in head office, providing technical support). My boss has only just recenly conceded that when he did my job, it was one power station, not two, was $10k better off financially, and had half a dozen direct reports (I've got 3, but they aren't direct, hence the $10k, as I'm not technically managing people)

We became a state owned corporation, and have to compete in the market to provide electricity. We had/have the same drivers as any privately owned generator.

We've dropped the price of making electricity from 9c/kWhr to 2.2c/kWhr, and are still returning $170million a year to our shareholder (the treasurer, unfortunately, so that he can **** it up the wall).

The consumer is still paying 14.4c/kWhr to the retail companies, in spite of the inroads that we have made.

Yep, being state owned, it is a little (and only a little) more difficult to deal with non-performers. It takes an actual manager to do it, rather than what passes for a manager all too often these days.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top