Got a Flat -- RMA Repair Guidelines?

[The Critic]

Guys,

I got a flat this morning and the puncture was in the shoulder of the tire. Per RMA guidelines, this is not repairable:

http://www.rma.org/wp-content/uploads/puncture_repair_handout.pdf

The tire shop that I work with, America’s Tire, is claiming that the puncture is still repairable if it is not close to the sidewall. They are stating that if the puncture has not compromised the belts, it is OK to repair.

Since I have their infamous free replacement certificates, I would prefer for them to replace the tire. But judging from the conversation, I see a uphill battle coming.

Thoughts?

 

[millerbl00]

If done correctly it can work. I have had a sidwall repair for 20k miles now.

 

[zloveraz]

I'd trust ATC/Discount tire as they are typically very strict regarding repairs, if they say it's repairable I'd say go for it.

 

[Doog]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Guys,

Thoughts?


Any tire puncture outside the RMA guidelines is also outside the Doog guidelines for CMA while driving 80mph all day in Florida heat while on vacation. No tire is worth risking my life and the lives of my family for. Think about it. I will repair a tire long enough to get me home. Then I replace it.

 

[Trav]

PM CapriRacer he will know.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: zloveraz
I'd trust ATC/Discount tire as they are typically very strict regarding repairs, if they say it's repairable I'd say go for it.


And why should I trust the tire shop technicians over industry guidelines that were developed by established experts?

I am a bit suspicious of this chain based on my prior experiences with them. Sure, they are seemingly friendly and are unusually aggressive on pricing. But when it comes to any technical knowledge, they generally have zilch. Road force balancer? No idea how to use it properly. Lug nuts? Some of their techs choose not to start a couple threads by hand first and as a result, ruined a few of my lug studs. Tire pressure? Every car gets 32 psi, hot or cold.

/rant

 

[Doog]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: zloveraz
I'd trust ATC/Discount tire as they are typically very strict regarding repairs, if they say it's repairable I'd say go for it.


And why should I trust the tire shop technicians over industry guidelines that were developed by established experts?

I am a bit suspicious of this chain based on my prior experiences with them. Sure, they are seemingly friendly and are unusually aggressive on pricing. But when it comes to any technical knowledge, they generally have zilch. Road force balancer? No idea how to use it properly. Lug nuts? Some of their techs choose not to start a couple threads by hand first and as a result, ruined a few of my lug studs. Tire pressure? Every car gets 32 psi, hot or cold.

/rant


I don't trust anyone with my safety

 

[The Critic]

Apparently, Michelin has some additional repair guidelines for their tires:

Quote:
Michelin said it does not place a restriction to repairing any tire in service due to its speed rating. If repaired properly following RMA procedures, the speed rating can be maintained.

Michelin does, however, place restrictions on the number and location of repairs to a tire: 1/4-inch diameter or less per RMA procedure; maximum of three repairs to an individual tire, except run-flat tires where only one repair is permitted; each repair location minimum of 90 degrees apart; and no additional repair can be made if the first or second repair is not an approved RMA repair type.


http://www.tirebusiness.com/article/2012...ot-some-answers

 

[Cardenio327]

The puncture MUST be more than 1" (2.5 cm) from the corner/edge of the shoulder to be repairable.

If it is less than 1" it is within the belt transition area. All radials have two diagonal steel belts. One is approximately full width, the other is somewhat narrower. If they were both full width they would separate very easily. If it is less than 1" from the corner/edge, the puncture could very well be passing through the edge of the narrower belt.

The other consideration is that the shoulder is the highest stressed area of a tire. It retains the most heat because it contains the thickest cross section found in the tire. The cross section in the shoulder area is the thickest because it is the transition area between the flexing movement of the sidewall and the conflicting flexing movement of the tread. The combination of said movements also generates more heat than any other part of the tire.

If the puncture is:
---Less than 1" from the edge of the shoulder;
---not in the tread area;
---greater than 1/4" in diameter;
---at an angle of less than 75° (greater than 15° from perpendicular)---
THE TIRE CANNOT BE SAFELY REPAIRED!

 

[mrsilv04]

My approach: Document everything. Take a picture of the tire showing the location of the puncture before it is repaired.

Afterwards, have them rotate all four tires, making sure that they put the newly repaired tire on the rear axle of the vehicle.

 

[Chris142]

I have noticed that americas tire is not as forgiving as they used to be. They used to give tires away all day. Now they repair stuff thats marginal.

 

[Rand]

thats on a location by location basis imo.
cant over-generalize it.

 

[JHZR2]

Picture???

This was mine... Unrepairable...

Also saw this:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3158666

 

[Papa Bear]

Originally Posted By: The Critic


And why should I trust the tire shop technicians over industry guidelines that were developed by established experts?

I am a bit suspicious of this chain based on my prior experiences with them. Sure, they are seemingly friendly and are unusually aggressive on pricing. But when it comes to any technical knowledge, they generally have zilch. Road force balancer? No idea how to use it properly. Lug nuts? Some of their techs choose not to start a couple threads by hand first and as a result, ruined a few of my lug studs. Tire pressure? Every car gets 32 psi, hot or cold.

/rant


Geez, you started this thread by saying they were the tire shop you work with ......

 

[The Critic]

I already have a service agreement with them, so I really do not have much of a choice.

Anyway, I dropped off the tire. They stood firm and said that it is repairable, and are unable to replace the tire under the terms of the road hazard warranty.

According to the RMA document, this puncture should not be repaired.



While the repair will probably be safe for street use, I am not in agreement with their position.

 

[Vikas]

I will bet you my week's pay that if you did not have that certificate, the store will insist that it is NOT repairable and you would have to buy a new tire on your own dime.

 

[eljefino]

Yeah don't you have a girlfriend whose prius you could slap this on? Bring it in "undercover". Then her car won't be in their system.

Seriously though that can be fixed. It's a car, not Evel Kneivel's motorcycle.

When I worked at a tire store we were pretty good about taking the tech's word on if it was fixable or not--- and I didn't see the paperwork to see if it was warranty or customer pay.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Yeah don't you have a girlfriend whose prius you could slap this on? Bring it in "undercover". Then her car won't be in their system.

Seriously though that can be fixed. It's a car, not Evel Kneivel's motorcycle.

When I worked at a tire store we were pretty good about taking the tech's word on if it was fixable or not--- and I didn't see the paperwork to see if it was warranty or customer pay.


I do agree that it can be fixed, but the issue is whether the repair would be in compliance with RMA guidelines.

 

[eljefino]

The thing is, if you're judging "where it begins to curve" that varies from tire to tire even in the same size.

Worse, it'll "begin to curve" inside before it begins outside.

If you're going off tread grooves, those could wind up "wherever" also WRT the belts and corner flexing.

As much as you'd like to see this as black and white, IMO, there's a shade of gray here.

 

[Traction]

That tire can most definitely be repaired. If done correctly it will be fine. As long as it was not driven on flat. Combination patch/plug will work perfect. Nail looks straight it, easy fix. I don't know if anyone else has noticed, most flats occur on the right rear tire. More debris on the right side of the road, and the front tire flips it up.