We'll see what ratios the gears are. If the ratios are well-picked, each gear will feel pretty well suited for a particular need. The driver might have to shift on the highway to go uphill in 6th below a certain speed. Otherwise, highway cruising at 65-75 mph shouldn't need a shift to go uphill. Passing will need a skip-shift to 4th or even 3rd, which can be a little disconcerting at highway speeds. That shouldn't be an issue, seeing how it's a Honda. That itty bitty turbo will likely run out of steam by 4500-5000 RPM on the factory tune, so a little rowing to keep it in the powerband will probably be needed.
Good News for Manual Trans Lovers
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I always get a good laugh at these chest thumping manual transmission threads, as if the ability to operate a modern manual transmission requires any special skills. Even my 60-something wife drove a manual most of her life (and has never worn out a clutch).
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
I always get a good laugh at these chest thumping manual transmission threads, as if the ability to operate a modern manual transmission requires any special skills. Even my 60-something wife drove a manual most of her life (and has never worn out a clutch).
I don't think it has anything to do with chest thumping, I think it has more to do with the fact that manual trannies are disappearing as an option....
I always get a good laugh at these chest thumping manual transmission threads, as if the ability to operate a modern manual transmission requires any special skills. Even my 60-something wife drove a manual most of her life (and has never worn out a clutch).
I don't think it has anything to do with chest thumping, I think it has more to do with the fact that manual trannies are disappearing as an option....
Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel
Originally Posted By: SeaJay
The market has been speaking very loudly for the last several years. The vast majority do not want a MT (an no, the vast majority spend little, if any time posting on automobile enthusiast websites like this one).
MT's eventually go the way of window turn handles, non-power assist brakes, non-power assist steering, etc.
No it hasn't, the marketing hacks have though, constantly TELLING the consumer what they want.
I don't recall seeing many advertisements or fluff articles in the press touting the AT over the MT.
Originally Posted By: SeaJay
The market has been speaking very loudly for the last several years. The vast majority do not want a MT (an no, the vast majority spend little, if any time posting on automobile enthusiast websites like this one).
MT's eventually go the way of window turn handles, non-power assist brakes, non-power assist steering, etc.
No it hasn't, the marketing hacks have though, constantly TELLING the consumer what they want.
I don't recall seeing many advertisements or fluff articles in the press touting the AT over the MT.
Most consumers don't want a manual, and the EPA "conspires" against the manufacturers--each engine/trans combination has to be tested for emissions and mpg. Why spend money on a drivetrain combination that won't sell, or, even if it did sell, wouldn't pay to recoup those costs?
IMO it's to the point where I suspect the only manuals we'll see in this country are because the platform & trans are sold elsewhere in the world. Meaning no extra cost to figure out how to put the transmission in there to begin with. And perhaps only as a loss leader advertisement (since these days AT's best MT's on the EPA tests, real world findings notwithstanding). Maybe some niche players will do manuals here because of their market (Mazda comes to mind) but I think for the major makers MT's are something they wish would be forgotten.
IMO it's to the point where I suspect the only manuals we'll see in this country are because the platform & trans are sold elsewhere in the world. Meaning no extra cost to figure out how to put the transmission in there to begin with. And perhaps only as a loss leader advertisement (since these days AT's best MT's on the EPA tests, real world findings notwithstanding). Maybe some niche players will do manuals here because of their market (Mazda comes to mind) but I think for the major makers MT's are something they wish would be forgotten.
Imagining that the automakers do not know their market is misinformed.
Focus groups and dozens of other polling technologies are used to determine what customers want. The simple facts are that the overwhelming majority of buyers simply do not want a stick shift. period. That's it.
Expense has nothing to do with it. If they would sell they'd be out there in droves. They don't. Just in the niche markets, halo cars, etc. Mainstream car buyers will not see anything but the slushbox...
Focus groups and dozens of other polling technologies are used to determine what customers want. The simple facts are that the overwhelming majority of buyers simply do not want a stick shift. period. That's it.
Expense has nothing to do with it. If they would sell they'd be out there in droves. They don't. Just in the niche markets, halo cars, etc. Mainstream car buyers will not see anything but the slushbox...
When I was younger "manual for life!" was my battle cry.
Now I don't see the point in most cars, especially when modern dual-clutch and conventional automatics outperform the manual-equipped variants.
[censored], I'd even take the new 'vette in an auto. It would be 100% street driven, so why would I choose a manual transmission?
Now I don't see the point in most cars, especially when modern dual-clutch and conventional automatics outperform the manual-equipped variants.
[censored], I'd even take the new 'vette in an auto. It would be 100% street driven, so why would I choose a manual transmission?
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
[censored], I'd even take the new 'vette in an auto. It would be 100% street driven, so why would I choose a manual transmission?
My automatic drives me nuts on the street. Going up through the gears it's fine, it's the rest of the time when it won't hold gear that it drives me nuts.
And that's driving at one-tenths, I guess you could say.
I get the premise of having a slushbox in heavy traffic conditions, and for backing up a trailer. I don't hate them. I just have no particular love for them. Different strokes for different folks--I don't back up trailers nor drive in Boston on a daily basis.
[censored], I'd even take the new 'vette in an auto. It would be 100% street driven, so why would I choose a manual transmission?
My automatic drives me nuts on the street. Going up through the gears it's fine, it's the rest of the time when it won't hold gear that it drives me nuts.
And that's driving at one-tenths, I guess you could say.
I get the premise of having a slushbox in heavy traffic conditions, and for backing up a trailer. I don't hate them. I just have no particular love for them. Different strokes for different folks--I don't back up trailers nor drive in Boston on a daily basis.
I like manuals and automatics- it all depends on the application.
I can't imagine driving my Club Sport or Wrangler without a third pedal; a manual just suits the engine and the character of each vehicle. Contrast that with my 2er, which has a 3 liter turbo motor that produces 330 ft lbs. of torque from 1300-4500 rpm; the ZF 8HP45 autobox gives the car faster acceleration, better fuel economy, and is durable enough to be used in Munich's turn-key M235i Racing.
I can't imagine driving my Club Sport or Wrangler without a third pedal; a manual just suits the engine and the character of each vehicle. Contrast that with my 2er, which has a 3 liter turbo motor that produces 330 ft lbs. of torque from 1300-4500 rpm; the ZF 8HP45 autobox gives the car faster acceleration, better fuel economy, and is durable enough to be used in Munich's turn-key M235i Racing.
Originally Posted By: MCompact
I like manuals and automatics- it all depends on the application.
I can't imagine driving my Club Sport or Wrangler without a third pedal; a manual just suits the engine and the character of each vehicle. Contrast that with my 2er, which has a 3 liter turbo motor that produces 330 ft lbs. of torque from 1300-4500 rpm; the ZF 8HP45 autobox gives the car faster acceleration, better fuel economy, and is durable enough to be used in Munich's turn-key .
Auto Trans is a good match for your BMW. My S2000 with 15x ft-lbs at 6000-7000 RPM can't go anywhere with an Auto Trans.
I like manuals and automatics- it all depends on the application.
I can't imagine driving my Club Sport or Wrangler without a third pedal; a manual just suits the engine and the character of each vehicle. Contrast that with my 2er, which has a 3 liter turbo motor that produces 330 ft lbs. of torque from 1300-4500 rpm; the ZF 8HP45 autobox gives the car faster acceleration, better fuel economy, and is durable enough to be used in Munich's turn-key .
Auto Trans is a good match for your BMW. My S2000 with 15x ft-lbs at 6000-7000 RPM can't go anywhere with an Auto Trans.
Modern cars are getting so disconnected anyway the clutch less variants don't seem to make them feel any worst.
I have had opportunity to drive modern cars like rs5 and m4 and simply prefer the slower older engaging to me cars.
I have had opportunity to drive modern cars like rs5 and m4 and simply prefer the slower older engaging to me cars.
Originally Posted By: SeaJay
MT's eventually go the way of window turn handles, non-power assist brakes, non-power assist steering, etc.
Unless they offer me a VERY GOOD, but affordable, Bimmer or Ferrari type/quality/function SMG in it's place, I will STOP DRIVING!!!
MT's eventually go the way of window turn handles, non-power assist brakes, non-power assist steering, etc.
Unless they offer me a VERY GOOD, but affordable, Bimmer or Ferrari type/quality/function SMG in it's place, I will STOP DRIVING!!!
Originally Posted By: grampi
An automatic in a Vette is roughly the equivalent of Ecuador assembling a bobsledding team for the Olympics...it just doesn't belong...
Even though I am told it is a most excellent auto gearbox (as far as regular type slushboxes go), I tend to AGREE with the above.
An automatic in a Vette is roughly the equivalent of Ecuador assembling a bobsledding team for the Olympics...it just doesn't belong...
Even though I am told it is a most excellent auto gearbox (as far as regular type slushboxes go), I tend to AGREE with the above.
I spend all week shifting 18 gears in a commercial truck, to the tune of about 130,000 miles a year. When I get into my personal vehicles on my time off on weekends, holidays, and vacations, I don't want to see a clutch. Car or pickup. Partly because I don't want to do anything but drive, and partly because there is a world of difference in shifting between a automotive clutch and a semi truck. I hate having to change shifting styles back and forth. At least I can float a semi truck shift when appropriate and avoid the clutch.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Imagining that the automakers do not know their market is misinformed.
Focus groups and dozens of other polling technologies are used to determine what customers want. The simple facts are that the overwhelming majority of buyers simply do not want a stick shift. period. That's it.
Expense has nothing to do with it. If they would sell they'd be out there in droves. They don't. Just in the niche markets, halo cars, etc. Mainstream car buyers will not see anything but the slushbox...
"Focus groups" told Ford that consumers didn't care if the Windstar had a sliding door on the driver's side...
Imagining that the automakers do not know their market is misinformed.
Focus groups and dozens of other polling technologies are used to determine what customers want. The simple facts are that the overwhelming majority of buyers simply do not want a stick shift. period. That's it.
Expense has nothing to do with it. If they would sell they'd be out there in droves. They don't. Just in the niche markets, halo cars, etc. Mainstream car buyers will not see anything but the slushbox...
"Focus groups" told Ford that consumers didn't care if the Windstar had a sliding door on the driver's side...
I like the 5 spd in the Rat. It is my first MT in 30 yrs. I stalled it a few times . MDW climbs in. Strike 1, interior is a mess, I cover up grubby front seat with a cotton matt. strike 2, She drives the truck down town, has no trouble holding it on a slight grade waiting for the light where we go left. I've stalled it there twice. Working the clutch aggravated her sciatica Stee-rike 3! I have improved. To tell the truth , I liked the 727s in the Grand wags and the 4HP22s in the 528es. Very little trouble with either. An engine should be able to handle a.80 OD. Use diff gears to tune for usage and tire size. 4 or 5 gears should be plenty.
Today's automatics drive me nuts. They're constantly trying to shove themselves into the highest gear possible, making a downshift necessary even for the slightest bit of acceleration...they basically have the engine lugging, or almost lugging all the time...
Bud_One
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When looking for a new Civic for my wife, her only stipulation was that it was a manual shift.
Luckily , there was "one" in Houston in the color she liked.
It's a joy to drive , so glad she stuck to her guns and we didn't get the CVT model.
Luckily , there was "one" in Houston in the color she liked.
It's a joy to drive , so glad she stuck to her guns and we didn't get the CVT model.
Originally Posted By: grampi
Today's automatics drive me nuts. They're constantly trying to shove themselves into the highest gear possible, making a downshift necessary even for the slightest bit of acceleration...they basically have the engine lugging, or almost lugging all the time...
That's what happens when you let politicians design cars. Congress demands insanely high fuel economy, so manufacturers meet that any way they can.
And it gets particularly difficult when those politicians demand ever greater safety at the same time as demanding ever greater fuel economy, because improving one usually makes the other worse.
This is also why manuals are going away.
Today's automatics drive me nuts. They're constantly trying to shove themselves into the highest gear possible, making a downshift necessary even for the slightest bit of acceleration...they basically have the engine lugging, or almost lugging all the time...
That's what happens when you let politicians design cars. Congress demands insanely high fuel economy, so manufacturers meet that any way they can.
And it gets particularly difficult when those politicians demand ever greater safety at the same time as demanding ever greater fuel economy, because improving one usually makes the other worse.
This is also why manuals are going away.
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