That Accord Coupe six-speed manual is supposed to be pretty quick.
Good News for Manual Trans Lovers
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Originally Posted By: robertcope
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
The Miata and the S2000 (and the Morgan 3 Wheeler!) share the same transmission.
I'm 99% sure that is not true. They're similar, Ibut they're not interchangeable, either completely nor internally to my knowledge.
S2000:
Miata:
I own both a 2001 S2000 and a 1999 Miata, both transmissions are fantastic.
robert
The casework differs in some details but they are identical transmissions (internals swap without modification). The Miata uses a "Power Plant Frame" whereby the transmission (and therefore the motor) is connected to the differential with an aluminum beam, so there is provision on the right side to bolt up the beam (you can see the PPF boss in your photo). Bellhousings differ.
There is no provision to use a PPF in the S2000 or the Morgan, but there is room and a Miata variant bolts in to those vehicles. The other way around doesn't work, however.
The S2000 also uses a rear differential manufactured by Mazda with some differences from the Miata unit (PPF boss, for example) but again the internals swap.
The 6-speeds are Aisin units, the Miata 5-speed is a Mazda part (early Miata). The 5-speed is an even better shifting unit than the 6; some say (Car & Driver magazine, for example) the best feeling manual ever used on a production vehicle.
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
The Miata and the S2000 (and the Morgan 3 Wheeler!) share the same transmission.
I'm 99% sure that is not true. They're similar, Ibut they're not interchangeable, either completely nor internally to my knowledge.
S2000:
Miata:
I own both a 2001 S2000 and a 1999 Miata, both transmissions are fantastic.
robert
The casework differs in some details but they are identical transmissions (internals swap without modification). The Miata uses a "Power Plant Frame" whereby the transmission (and therefore the motor) is connected to the differential with an aluminum beam, so there is provision on the right side to bolt up the beam (you can see the PPF boss in your photo). Bellhousings differ.
There is no provision to use a PPF in the S2000 or the Morgan, but there is room and a Miata variant bolts in to those vehicles. The other way around doesn't work, however.
The S2000 also uses a rear differential manufactured by Mazda with some differences from the Miata unit (PPF boss, for example) but again the internals swap.
The 6-speeds are Aisin units, the Miata 5-speed is a Mazda part (early Miata). The 5-speed is an even better shifting unit than the 6; some say (Car & Driver magazine, for example) the best feeling manual ever used on a production vehicle.
Sorry ... my bad. They do not swap as units (bell-housing & transmission is cast as one piece on the Miata unit) but internals do. I'm more familiar with the 5-speed ... I decided to use another one when I did a trans swap although using the Miata 6 is a straight bolt-in and the cost is the same.
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Sorry ... my bad. They do not swap as units (bell-housing & transmission is cast as one piece on the Miata unit) but internals do. I'm more familiar with the 5-speed ... I decided to use another one when I did a trans swap although using the Miata 6 is a straight bolt-in and the cost is the same.
No worries man!
Johnny2Bad explained it better than I would have anyway.
Sorry ... my bad. They do not swap as units (bell-housing & transmission is cast as one piece on the Miata unit) but internals do. I'm more familiar with the 5-speed ... I decided to use another one when I did a trans swap although using the Miata 6 is a straight bolt-in and the cost is the same.
No worries man!
Johnny2Bad explained it better than I would have anyway.
Originally Posted By: jhellwig
Originally Posted By: ammolab
But in the base models only? I bet. If you want leather, navi and a clutch you are really limited to a muscle car, a Vette, or a BMW.
I was at a chevy dealer a month ago. They had 5 or six vettts in the show room and only one had a manual transmission. The z06 was even an auto.
Most guys who buy Corvettes are older (they're the ones who can afford them), and have wives. That's why there are so many automatics - guys have to buy something their wives can drive, because, unfortunately, most women these days either can't or don't want to drive a manual.
It's a rare woman indeed who can pilot a manual-trans Corvette well and aggressively, in anger.
Originally Posted By: ammolab
But in the base models only? I bet. If you want leather, navi and a clutch you are really limited to a muscle car, a Vette, or a BMW.
I was at a chevy dealer a month ago. They had 5 or six vettts in the show room and only one had a manual transmission. The z06 was even an auto.
Most guys who buy Corvettes are older (they're the ones who can afford them), and have wives. That's why there are so many automatics - guys have to buy something their wives can drive, because, unfortunately, most women these days either can't or don't want to drive a manual.
It's a rare woman indeed who can pilot a manual-trans Corvette well and aggressively, in anger.
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
Six speed manual...I guess its like getting onto a highway driving a giant garbage truck..1st gear 2nd gear 3rd gear 4th gear 5th gear 6th gear and wow we are cruising at 60 but the drivers arm just fell off!
Funny.
Yeah, there's a lot of shifting involved in a manual-trans car with a small, naturally-aspirated, top-end-biased engine, like the Miata, or, especially, the S2000.
Six speed manual...I guess its like getting onto a highway driving a giant garbage truck..1st gear 2nd gear 3rd gear 4th gear 5th gear 6th gear and wow we are cruising at 60 but the drivers arm just fell off!
Funny.
Yeah, there's a lot of shifting involved in a manual-trans car with a small, naturally-aspirated, top-end-biased engine, like the Miata, or, especially, the S2000.
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Personally, I am in favor of more choices, but these manual transmission car's won't sell. Except for maybe the Ford Focus and Festiva, I don't see very many people wanting a manual transmission.
I think they will sell well. Each time I've bought a Civic, there was a wait for a manual trans as each dealer told me all the sticks were sold before they arrived, while plenty of automatics sat on the lot. Honda clearly produced less stick shifts than what the demand was.
Personally, I am in favor of more choices, but these manual transmission car's won't sell. Except for maybe the Ford Focus and Festiva, I don't see very many people wanting a manual transmission.
I think they will sell well. Each time I've bought a Civic, there was a wait for a manual trans as each dealer told me all the sticks were sold before they arrived, while plenty of automatics sat on the lot. Honda clearly produced less stick shifts than what the demand was.
Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
Six speed manual...I guess its like getting onto a highway driving a giant garbage truck..1st gear 2nd gear 3rd gear 4th gear 5th gear 6th gear and wow we are cruising at 60 but the drivers arm just fell off!
Funny.
Yeah, there's a lot of shifting involved in a manual-trans car with a small, naturally-aspirated, top-end-biased engine, like the Miata, or, especially, the S2000.
On my car I often do 1-2-3-5, or rarely 1-2-5 if you rev it out to 6k in 2nd.
Even though a S2000 has lots of hp up top, it still has more grunt than a 4cyl Accord at lower rpm too.
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
Six speed manual...I guess its like getting onto a highway driving a giant garbage truck..1st gear 2nd gear 3rd gear 4th gear 5th gear 6th gear and wow we are cruising at 60 but the drivers arm just fell off!
Funny.
Yeah, there's a lot of shifting involved in a manual-trans car with a small, naturally-aspirated, top-end-biased engine, like the Miata, or, especially, the S2000.
On my car I often do 1-2-3-5, or rarely 1-2-5 if you rev it out to 6k in 2nd.
Even though a S2000 has lots of hp up top, it still has more grunt than a 4cyl Accord at lower rpm too.
Nothing wrong with skip-shifting. Winding out the motor is much like... what it was like before close-spaced gear ratios were common.
Everyone loves the feeling of being able to accelerate on a steep hill while in top gear; but the truth is, if you can do that, then your engine is spinning too fast on the flats, let alone the straights. A crazy tall final ratio might not be usable off the highway but is probably great on-highway.
Also, it is nice being able to raise rpm just slightly, or to otherwise hit just the right ratio. Wide ratios "feel" good when running up through the gears, but are so annoying when one just needs a couple hundred rpm boost on a hill--but gets a thousand instead. [or similar, think of most any 4AT.]
Everyone loves the feeling of being able to accelerate on a steep hill while in top gear; but the truth is, if you can do that, then your engine is spinning too fast on the flats, let alone the straights. A crazy tall final ratio might not be usable off the highway but is probably great on-highway.
Also, it is nice being able to raise rpm just slightly, or to otherwise hit just the right ratio. Wide ratios "feel" good when running up through the gears, but are so annoying when one just needs a couple hundred rpm boost on a hill--but gets a thousand instead. [or similar, think of most any 4AT.]
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
Six speed manual...I guess its like getting onto a highway driving a giant garbage truck..1st gear 2nd gear 3rd gear 4th gear 5th gear 6th gear and wow we are cruising at 60 but the drivers arm just fell off!
Funny.
Yeah, there's a lot of shifting involved in a manual-trans car with a small, naturally-aspirated, top-end-biased engine, like the Miata, or, especially, the S2000.
On my car I often do 1-2-3-5, or rarely 1-2-5 if you rev it out to 6k in 2nd.
Even though a S2000 has lots of hp up top, it still has more grunt than a 4cyl Accord at lower rpm too.
I have a 5 speed and often shift into 1,2,3 and 5. That seems to work well in many instances.
Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
Six speed manual...I guess its like getting onto a highway driving a giant garbage truck..1st gear 2nd gear 3rd gear 4th gear 5th gear 6th gear and wow we are cruising at 60 but the drivers arm just fell off!
Funny.
Yeah, there's a lot of shifting involved in a manual-trans car with a small, naturally-aspirated, top-end-biased engine, like the Miata, or, especially, the S2000.
On my car I often do 1-2-3-5, or rarely 1-2-5 if you rev it out to 6k in 2nd.
Even though a S2000 has lots of hp up top, it still has more grunt than a 4cyl Accord at lower rpm too.
I have a 5 speed and often shift into 1,2,3 and 5. That seems to work well in many instances.
My 2003 Ford Focus had a pretty well spaced gearbox, although the 5th was to short IMO. But I oftentimes run it at 1-2-4-5 or 1-2-3-5 or in winter 2-3-4-5. It was nice to be in full control.
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Personally, I am in favor of more choices, but these manual transmission car's won't sell. Except for maybe the Ford Focus and Festiva, I don't see very many people wanting a manual transmission.
Remember that the US is only ONE market out of the entire world, the fact is that a majority of markets sell overwhelmingly manual transmissions while only a few auto/CVT units. So actually if you look at the world market the auto/CVT is a money losing item.
Personally, I am in favor of more choices, but these manual transmission car's won't sell. Except for maybe the Ford Focus and Festiva, I don't see very many people wanting a manual transmission.
Remember that the US is only ONE market out of the entire world, the fact is that a majority of markets sell overwhelmingly manual transmissions while only a few auto/CVT units. So actually if you look at the world market the auto/CVT is a money losing item.
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
Six speed manual...I guess its like getting onto a highway driving a giant garbage truck..1st gear 2nd gear 3rd gear 4th gear 5th gear 6th gear and wow we are cruising at 60 but the drivers arm just fell off!
Funny.
Yeah, there's a lot of shifting involved in a manual-trans car with a small, naturally-aspirated, top-end-biased engine, like the Miata, or, especially, the S2000.
On my car I often do 1-2-3-5, or rarely 1-2-5 if you rev it out to 6k in 2nd.
Even though a S2000 has lots of hp up top, it still has more grunt than a 4cyl Accord at lower rpm too.
I believe it. I had a 4-cyl. 5-spd. 2004 Accord, and it had NOTHING down low. At highway speeds it did OK.
Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
Six speed manual...I guess its like getting onto a highway driving a giant garbage truck..1st gear 2nd gear 3rd gear 4th gear 5th gear 6th gear and wow we are cruising at 60 but the drivers arm just fell off!
Funny.
Yeah, there's a lot of shifting involved in a manual-trans car with a small, naturally-aspirated, top-end-biased engine, like the Miata, or, especially, the S2000.
On my car I often do 1-2-3-5, or rarely 1-2-5 if you rev it out to 6k in 2nd.
Even though a S2000 has lots of hp up top, it still has more grunt than a 4cyl Accord at lower rpm too.
I believe it. I had a 4-cyl. 5-spd. 2004 Accord, and it had NOTHING down low. At highway speeds it did OK.
The market has been speaking very loudly for the last several years. The vast majority do not want a MT (an no, the vast majority spend little, if any time posting on automobile enthusiast websites like this one).
MT's eventually go the way of window turn handles, non-power assist brakes, non-power assist steering, etc.
MT's eventually go the way of window turn handles, non-power assist brakes, non-power assist steering, etc.
Originally Posted By: jhellwig
Originally Posted By: ammolab
But in the base models only? I bet. If you want leather, navi and a clutch you are really limited to a muscle car, a Vette, or a BMW.
I was at a chevy dealer a month ago. They had 5 or six vettts in the show room and only one had a manual transmission. The z06 was even an auto.
An automatic in a Vette is roughly the equivalent of Ecuador assembling a bobsledding team for the Olympics...it just doesn't belong...
Originally Posted By: ammolab
But in the base models only? I bet. If you want leather, navi and a clutch you are really limited to a muscle car, a Vette, or a BMW.
I was at a chevy dealer a month ago. They had 5 or six vettts in the show room and only one had a manual transmission. The z06 was even an auto.
An automatic in a Vette is roughly the equivalent of Ecuador assembling a bobsledding team for the Olympics...it just doesn't belong...
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: jhellwig
Originally Posted By: ammolab
But in the base models only? I bet. If you want leather, navi and a clutch you are really limited to a muscle car, a Vette, or a BMW.
I was at a chevy dealer a month ago. They had 5 or six vettts in the show room and only one had a manual transmission. The z06 was even an auto.
An automatic in a Vette is roughly the equivalent of Ecuador assembling a bobsledding team for the Olympics...it just doesn't belong...
I'm reminded of the movie Cool Runnings. And the fact that most supercars now use automatics (albeit not slushboxes).
Originally Posted By: jhellwig
Originally Posted By: ammolab
But in the base models only? I bet. If you want leather, navi and a clutch you are really limited to a muscle car, a Vette, or a BMW.
I was at a chevy dealer a month ago. They had 5 or six vettts in the show room and only one had a manual transmission. The z06 was even an auto.
An automatic in a Vette is roughly the equivalent of Ecuador assembling a bobsledding team for the Olympics...it just doesn't belong...
I'm reminded of the movie Cool Runnings. And the fact that most supercars now use automatics (albeit not slushboxes).
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: jhellwig
Originally Posted By: ammolab
But in the base models only? I bet. If you want leather, navi and a clutch you are really limited to a muscle car, a Vette, or a BMW.
I was at a chevy dealer a month ago. They had 5 or six vettts in the show room and only one had a manual transmission. The z06 was even an auto.
An automatic in a Vette is roughly the equivalent of Ecuador assembling a bobsledding team for the Olympics...it just doesn't belong...
Originally Posted By: jhellwig
Originally Posted By: ammolab
But in the base models only? I bet. If you want leather, navi and a clutch you are really limited to a muscle car, a Vette, or a BMW.
I was at a chevy dealer a month ago. They had 5 or six vettts in the show room and only one had a manual transmission. The z06 was even an auto.
An automatic in a Vette is roughly the equivalent of Ecuador assembling a bobsledding team for the Olympics...it just doesn't belong...
Originally Posted By: SeaJay
The market has been speaking very loudly for the last several years. The vast majority do not want a MT (an no, the vast majority spend little, if any time posting on automobile enthusiast websites like this one).
MT's eventually go the way of window turn handles, non-power assist brakes, non-power assist steering, etc.
No it hasn't, the marketing hacks have though, constantly TELLING the consumer what they want.
The market has been speaking very loudly for the last several years. The vast majority do not want a MT (an no, the vast majority spend little, if any time posting on automobile enthusiast websites like this one).
MT's eventually go the way of window turn handles, non-power assist brakes, non-power assist steering, etc.
No it hasn't, the marketing hacks have though, constantly TELLING the consumer what they want.
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