One of these and a 300/4000watt generator would do you good. Harbor freight has a decent generator I’ve had years of trouble free luck with my champion. I can’t lead you to which one to purchase only real experience I have is with the champion.
Generator suggestions?
- Thread starter BTLew81
- Start date
WEN DF451i Super Quiet 4500-Watt Electric Start Dual Fuel RV-Ready Portable Inverter Generator with Fuel Shut-Off
Dual fuel design runs on both gasoline (4500 surge watts, 3500 rated watts) and propane (4500 surge watts, 3150 rated watts) Auto Fuel Selection Technology automatically switches from propane to gasoline for longer run times EPA III and CARB compliant 212cc engine provides extremely quiet...
wenproducts.com
Bought this in 23 to run refrigerator, freezer in garage and/or a puddle sucker utility pump if needed in case of power loss. Like that it’s a dual fuel so I don’t have to use gasoline since propane has a longer shelf life.
Edit: Pic above is distorted view from pasting.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Won’t use it much
Don’t want to pay allot - don’t plan much load
This will give the op 6 120v plugs to run his 110/120v stuff. No transfer switch involved
New home, we kick around getting one, not a whole house but possibly one that can be plugged into a circuit breaker lock out. Costco had one $200 off for $799 forgot the brand but well known, now back to $999
My wife was big on getting one, thinking now that we live near the coast we are going to lose power all the time, she is calming down now as we approach the one year mark and we never lost power. If we did it was going to be a tri-fuel that cold run off our propane which was the Costco on sale at the time for $799 it seemed like a steal and we would have had an breaker lock out to our panel for it. https://www.costco.com/firman-7500w-running--9400w-peak-tri-fuel-generator.product.100840185.html
Anyway, just got the new annual "Best Of" Consumer reports and gave the following short list and I see Champion mentioned by many in here is also mentioned by Consumer Reports.
Portable and light, Dewalt DXGNI2200
Medium, Champion 201049
Powerful, Wen GM875ix
Now I am thinking a medium size one like the Champion because I think if we end up using it more than 2 times over a decade that would be a lot, simply run extension cords as you would to the fridge, TV and maybe buy a small window AC unit. ... so chances are until we get burned in a black out storm I wont get one.
My wife was big on getting one, thinking now that we live near the coast we are going to lose power all the time, she is calming down now as we approach the one year mark and we never lost power. If we did it was going to be a tri-fuel that cold run off our propane which was the Costco on sale at the time for $799 it seemed like a steal and we would have had an breaker lock out to our panel for it. https://www.costco.com/firman-7500w-running--9400w-peak-tri-fuel-generator.product.100840185.html
Anyway, just got the new annual "Best Of" Consumer reports and gave the following short list and I see Champion mentioned by many in here is also mentioned by Consumer Reports.
Portable and light, Dewalt DXGNI2200
Medium, Champion 201049
Powerful, Wen GM875ix
Now I am thinking a medium size one like the Champion because I think if we end up using it more than 2 times over a decade that would be a lot, simply run extension cords as you would to the fridge, TV and maybe buy a small window AC unit. ... so chances are until we get burned in a black out storm I wont get one.
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Masters as in the golf match?
dnewton3
Staff member
OP -
I do have exactly what you're inquiring about. I have several times used my small portable inverter genny to power my fridge, TV, internet and fans.
You'll only need 2200w or maybe 2500w starting power. And less than 15A of running power (1800w).
Any number of brands will get you this; shop around to find a brand that gives you the quality you seek vs the money you'll spend.
- The Yamaha and Honda units are pricey, but quality is top notch. One thing to know about Hondas is that they do have a timing belt which does need changed (not sure of the interval; plenty of YT videos on this - it's a very involved job, splitting the crankcase to get to belt). The Yamaha design is gear drive.
- Most of the China units are fairly well built overall, but obviously not to the quality of the Japanese units. I would be more weary of the electronics in the China units than the engines themselves.
I have the Coleman Powermate 2200i. It's a China unit. I actually bought two; two were cheaper than one of the premium brands. So I have a backup to my backup. I did have a problem with one of them occasionally dropping out (electronically shutting off and dying). I found it to be the micro-switch on the "on-off" selector knob. I cut the OEM wire and just installed an aftermarket toggle switch; fixed for $4.
The Colemans I have I think are made by Pulsar, which is also a brand out there. Also, some of the Generac models are actually just Pulsars with different color schemes. There's a lot of brand duplication out there. Onan's small inverter gennys are just rebranded stuff as well. My point is that you should not get hung up on brand names, unless you're willing to pay the money for Yamaha or Honda. If you get a China made unit, be prepared to find something wrong with it; often easily fixed for a knowledgeable wrench turning person. My buddy just got a Wen unit that would not start well at all; turns out the choke cable was poorly adjusted, and once fixed, starts great now.
I do have exactly what you're inquiring about. I have several times used my small portable inverter genny to power my fridge, TV, internet and fans.
You'll only need 2200w or maybe 2500w starting power. And less than 15A of running power (1800w).
Any number of brands will get you this; shop around to find a brand that gives you the quality you seek vs the money you'll spend.
- The Yamaha and Honda units are pricey, but quality is top notch. One thing to know about Hondas is that they do have a timing belt which does need changed (not sure of the interval; plenty of YT videos on this - it's a very involved job, splitting the crankcase to get to belt). The Yamaha design is gear drive.
- Most of the China units are fairly well built overall, but obviously not to the quality of the Japanese units. I would be more weary of the electronics in the China units than the engines themselves.
I have the Coleman Powermate 2200i. It's a China unit. I actually bought two; two were cheaper than one of the premium brands. So I have a backup to my backup. I did have a problem with one of them occasionally dropping out (electronically shutting off and dying). I found it to be the micro-switch on the "on-off" selector knob. I cut the OEM wire and just installed an aftermarket toggle switch; fixed for $4.
The Colemans I have I think are made by Pulsar, which is also a brand out there. Also, some of the Generac models are actually just Pulsars with different color schemes. There's a lot of brand duplication out there. Onan's small inverter gennys are just rebranded stuff as well. My point is that you should not get hung up on brand names, unless you're willing to pay the money for Yamaha or Honda. If you get a China made unit, be prepared to find something wrong with it; often easily fixed for a knowledgeable wrench turning person. My buddy just got a Wen unit that would not start well at all; turns out the choke cable was poorly adjusted, and once fixed, starts great now.
Mastercraft is a Canadian Tire brand that sells tools and all kinds of other things. Typically they are built by other companies, for example champion. But it has the champion 1-800 number right on the generator, which luckily I have not needed to call.
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^^ This. I have a portable A/C. I likely wouldn't run it off a generator anyway but I tested it for fun. Inrush on start was as high as 17A. The plate on the back says 11A max. I imagine it has a lot to do with how the compressor is loaded at startup. I wouldn't be surprised if a fridge compressor does the same thing?
The guy said he's going to the masters in the first post.
dnewton3
Staff member
Just to be clear, there are a few ways to discuss current draw in regard to motors. All of the following need to be measured with a decent multimeter and not guessed at:
- inrush amps: this is the super-short high-peak demand which dumps energy into the windings
- start-up amps; this is the current draw as the windings come up to the designed steady-state rpm (for a fixed rpm motor)
- running amps; the current required to sustain the load while running at steady-state
Inrush amps are overblown IMO. I've got a very nice multimeter, and the inrush on things like fridges, freezers and small motors like fans is inconsequential. On a large a/c compressor it does very much matter, but not on small motor appliances. Generally the inrush is small enough and short enough in duration that any adequately sized generator can handle the inrush. I advice against worrying about this for the OPs stated desires.
Start-up amps are generally about 3x of the running amps for typical PSC type and similar motors. I've seen this be true most (not all) of the time. This is something you need to pay attention to as this "start up" demand can last 2 to 5 seconds. Those few seconds are enough that they can drag down a generator if it doesn't have enough engine power to overcome the demand from the genny power head during this start-up. You need the electric power to supply the device(s), and you need the engine power to supply the electric power head. Again, for the OPs intended uses, a typical 2200w or 2500w genny should suffice. My 2200w genny has no problems whatsoever starting my fridge or freezer, even with some other (minimal) loads concurrently running.
Running amps are the easiest to measure and typically don't vary much.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Real life summer time example: My house has ...
* a fridge that runs about 1.9A in steady state, and about 5.7A for start-up. So I round up to 6 amps for this.
* a box fan in my TV room runs at .6A, with 2.0 start up. I count this as 2 amps. (can move the fan to bedroom if it's time for sleep)
* my TV takes .5A, and since there's no motor, there's no "start-up" draw; it's always about 1/2 amp
* my internet modem/router also takes about .5A; again there's no motor so it's only 1/2 amp
* an LED lamp or two for light in the house; a few tenths of an amp; a pittance
* perhaps a phone or laptop charging; max of an amp or so
When you add them all up, they only come to about 11 amps (worst case at start up of the fan and the fridge at the same time). Since my little 2200w genny is capable of 18 amps for short duration I'm WELL within a safety margin. And when it's in "running" ops (no start up), I only draw about 4 amps or so (confirmed with the clamp-on multimeter). That's low enough that the genny is only running about 1/3 throttle; very quiet and reasonably fuel efficient.
In winter, I can run my furnace (5 amps running at 15 amps start-up). I don't need the fridge in winter; I can put the food in a cooler and place it outside, because mother nature provides the cold. And I don't really need a fan in the TV or bedroom because my forced air gas furnace already moves the air around. While it does take more energy to run the furnace (6 amps), I lose the 2.5 amps for the fridge and fan. So I'm still well inside the start-up and running amp capacity of my generator. Again, I've actually had to do this in my home in winter; it works fine.
I highly recommend that anyone who wants to use a genny go buy a good quality multimeter with an amp-clamp, and truly measure the loads during the start and run cycles. Then sit down and simply do the math.
- inrush amps: this is the super-short high-peak demand which dumps energy into the windings
- start-up amps; this is the current draw as the windings come up to the designed steady-state rpm (for a fixed rpm motor)
- running amps; the current required to sustain the load while running at steady-state
Inrush amps are overblown IMO. I've got a very nice multimeter, and the inrush on things like fridges, freezers and small motors like fans is inconsequential. On a large a/c compressor it does very much matter, but not on small motor appliances. Generally the inrush is small enough and short enough in duration that any adequately sized generator can handle the inrush. I advice against worrying about this for the OPs stated desires.
Start-up amps are generally about 3x of the running amps for typical PSC type and similar motors. I've seen this be true most (not all) of the time. This is something you need to pay attention to as this "start up" demand can last 2 to 5 seconds. Those few seconds are enough that they can drag down a generator if it doesn't have enough engine power to overcome the demand from the genny power head during this start-up. You need the electric power to supply the device(s), and you need the engine power to supply the electric power head. Again, for the OPs intended uses, a typical 2200w or 2500w genny should suffice. My 2200w genny has no problems whatsoever starting my fridge or freezer, even with some other (minimal) loads concurrently running.
Running amps are the easiest to measure and typically don't vary much.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Real life summer time example: My house has ...
* a fridge that runs about 1.9A in steady state, and about 5.7A for start-up. So I round up to 6 amps for this.
* a box fan in my TV room runs at .6A, with 2.0 start up. I count this as 2 amps. (can move the fan to bedroom if it's time for sleep)
* my TV takes .5A, and since there's no motor, there's no "start-up" draw; it's always about 1/2 amp
* my internet modem/router also takes about .5A; again there's no motor so it's only 1/2 amp
* an LED lamp or two for light in the house; a few tenths of an amp; a pittance
* perhaps a phone or laptop charging; max of an amp or so
When you add them all up, they only come to about 11 amps (worst case at start up of the fan and the fridge at the same time). Since my little 2200w genny is capable of 18 amps for short duration I'm WELL within a safety margin. And when it's in "running" ops (no start up), I only draw about 4 amps or so (confirmed with the clamp-on multimeter). That's low enough that the genny is only running about 1/3 throttle; very quiet and reasonably fuel efficient.
In winter, I can run my furnace (5 amps running at 15 amps start-up). I don't need the fridge in winter; I can put the food in a cooler and place it outside, because mother nature provides the cold. And I don't really need a fan in the TV or bedroom because my forced air gas furnace already moves the air around. While it does take more energy to run the furnace (6 amps), I lose the 2.5 amps for the fridge and fan. So I'm still well inside the start-up and running amp capacity of my generator. Again, I've actually had to do this in my home in winter; it works fine.
I highly recommend that anyone who wants to use a genny go buy a good quality multimeter with an amp-clamp, and truly measure the loads during the start and run cycles. Then sit down and simply do the math.
Very timely thread for me, as I am setting up a manual emergency-only generator system for my workplace to only run essentials with someone attending it.
- I imagine the brand/cost discussion comes down to risk tolerance. Are you o.k. if the generator fails and you lose a whole freezer full of meat? What about the house freezing and water lines break, birds/pets die, etc.? Is the middle priced Generac brand a consideration for it's bigger support network?
- The setup may/may not require some level of idiot proofness if you are away and someone less knowledgeable needs to get
something running.
- How important is the electricity quality output (THD)?
One thing missing in this excellent discussion is importance of the furnace (winter freeze) and the sump pump (basement flooding) for those of us with these concerns. The furnace/heater/boiler is probably the one single item that should have a transfer switch of some sort to safeguard backfeed in case someone forgets to turn off the main breaker panel? Yes or no?
I found this single DIY UL listed transfer switch for those interested. This is for "cheap/minimalist" application vs. a $$$$ 6 or 10 circuit transfer panel (depends on DIY skill level). https://ezgeneratorswitch.com/
And numerous cheaper versions: https://www.amazon.com/Generator-Tr...762-9c90-42aaadd2497c&pd_rd_i=B0CJ9DVLZQ&th=1
- I imagine the brand/cost discussion comes down to risk tolerance. Are you o.k. if the generator fails and you lose a whole freezer full of meat? What about the house freezing and water lines break, birds/pets die, etc.? Is the middle priced Generac brand a consideration for it's bigger support network?
- The setup may/may not require some level of idiot proofness if you are away and someone less knowledgeable needs to get
something running.
- How important is the electricity quality output (THD)?
One thing missing in this excellent discussion is importance of the furnace (winter freeze) and the sump pump (basement flooding) for those of us with these concerns. The furnace/heater/boiler is probably the one single item that should have a transfer switch of some sort to safeguard backfeed in case someone forgets to turn off the main breaker panel? Yes or no?
I found this single DIY UL listed transfer switch for those interested. This is for "cheap/minimalist" application vs. a $$$$ 6 or 10 circuit transfer panel (depends on DIY skill level). https://ezgeneratorswitch.com/
And numerous cheaper versions: https://www.amazon.com/Generator-Tr...762-9c90-42aaadd2497c&pd_rd_i=B0CJ9DVLZQ&th=1
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Generac are popular around here.
I strongly recommend getting something dual fuel and running propane due to storage reasons.
You can buy a WEN 4500 dual fuel with electric start and no CO minder for 800 dollars. They also make a dual fuel 2500 portable for less than 500.
The CO protection can really be a pain. If the wind blows the wrong way it will trip the unit off. WEN offers most models with and without the CO sensor.
You can buy a WEN 4500 dual fuel with electric start and no CO minder for 800 dollars. They also make a dual fuel 2500 portable for less than 500.
The CO protection can really be a pain. If the wind blows the wrong way it will trip the unit off. WEN offers most models with and without the CO sensor.
I agree with duel (actually most cases) Tri-Fuel which is Gasoline, LPG and NG.
I would be interested and sure to get LPG capable because we have a 125LB tank for our home already.
But even depending on an outage if the tank isnt full might have to resort to gasoline for a long multi day outage or hope the gas company can get a delivery quickly to us.
Which brings me to this. Many ads show typical BBQ Grill 20 LB propane tanks hooked to a generator. Ok, if the tank is full it might last a while but it wont last even close to 24 hours. So depending on your area, and you do not have a large propane set up or natural gas and have frequent storms, gasoline maybe your only option. But for sure, I would agree NG or LPG is the way to go.
My WEN DF250i will run over 20 hours @ 50% load on a 20 pound tank.
Remember that 20# tanks are typically always readily available when the power is out and no gas pumps are working.
I have four 20# tanks full at all times…..plus the one on the grill.
I have four generators that run on LP. I converted the Predator 3500 and the Honda EG2800i with model specific “no drill, no cutting “ kits from Grenergy.
My two WEN DF250i’s are factory ready for LP and the two running in parallel will put out a constant 3600 watts without breaking a sweat on LP.
For consumption reasons, I recommend two identical small units in parallel , so you only need to run one when demand is low and save fuel.
I also recommend a high zinc oil and a magnetic drain plug or dipstick on all of them.
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Who Really Makes Which Generator? - The Real Truth - Machines Lab
Often wonder who really makes which generators? Are they made in USA or China? Here is a summary of who makes which generator. Who makes the engine? Where
biomachineslab.com
Good post, you certainly are experienced!
For the typical person though, like me, I would be leary of propane IF I didnt have a 120Lb tank because we dont get power outages and the generator would sit for years unused. Until the once or POSSIBLY twice every ten years hurricane smacks the area, then it could be a while for power to be restored.
Being it would be so rarely used I would only buy one and I know it would be running more than 50% load so that tank can be dead in 12 or less hours. Again, I have a 120lb tank though. IT wouldnt be possible to buy and store 20lb tanks, though I have one for the grill, but in my HOA community regulations are tight.
Agree, I run Magnetic plugs in everything I own.
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