But ... how can you tell if the particles caught by the magnet wouldn't have been caught by the filter media?
Filter Magnets-Your thoughts/Opinions
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Originally Posted By: glum
But ... how can you tell if the particles caught by the magnet wouldn't have been caught by the filter media?
The magnets are going to catch 20 micron or less sized ferrous particles that the filter can't.
But ... how can you tell if the particles caught by the magnet wouldn't have been caught by the filter media?
The magnets are going to catch 20 micron or less sized ferrous particles that the filter can't.
But aren't those particles of the size that a UOA should detect? Then how to explain the UOA results posted above?
Originally Posted By: glum
But aren't those particles of the size that a UOA should detect? Then how to explain the UOA results posted above?
I'm not a UOA expert. So exactly what sized particles are detected in a good UOA?
But aren't those particles of the size that a UOA should detect? Then how to explain the UOA results posted above?
I'm not a UOA expert. So exactly what sized particles are detected in a good UOA?
In theory, it makes sense, in application it may or may not help. Some applications more than others for different reasons, I'm sure, though. It may persuade what would have been caught by the filter to be caught quicker, or perhaps not. I'm not sure any of us know for sure.
Some questions need to be answered, like how wear metals are calculated(ppm?) in UOAs, and then to see how filter magnets in one application affect wear metals in a UOA(oil and filter should be kept consistent IMO) and any variables that can be controlled should be, such as maintenance up-kept etc.
I don't doubt they help necessarily. I'd more like to know exactly how. How fast is oil being filtered going through the full-flow filters, for example, and how strong does a magnet need to be in order to grab particles that the filter isn't catching on its own?
Some questions need to be answered, like how wear metals are calculated(ppm?) in UOAs, and then to see how filter magnets in one application affect wear metals in a UOA(oil and filter should be kept consistent IMO) and any variables that can be controlled should be, such as maintenance up-kept etc.
I don't doubt they help necessarily. I'd more like to know exactly how. How fast is oil being filtered going through the full-flow filters, for example, and how strong does a magnet need to be in order to grab particles that the filter isn't catching on its own?
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
... and how strong does a magnet need to be in order to grab particles that the filter isn't catching on its own?
The FilterMag brochure (PDF file) linked back some in this thread has some technical info on how strong the magnetic field needs to be vs. the size of the particles.
... and how strong does a magnet need to be in order to grab particles that the filter isn't catching on its own?
The FilterMag brochure (PDF file) linked back some in this thread has some technical info on how strong the magnetic field needs to be vs. the size of the particles.
There are plenty of pics on the various sites linked to above. A pic alone doesn't mean a whole lot. What type of engine and oil? How many miles? And the big question which no one can answer--would the filter have caught those particles?
Will slapping a hard drive magnet on the oil and transmission drain plug magnetize them strongly enough to pick up particles just as a "traditional" magnetic drain plug?
Originally Posted By: Towncivilian
Will slapping a hard drive magnet on the oil and transmission drain plug magnetize them strongly enough to pick up particles just as a "traditional" magnetic drain plug?
Sounds like a good idea. Already have the "traditional" magnetic oil drain plug but couldn't find one for the transmission. Already got a hard drive magnet on the oil filter and an extra one that I will slap onto the Transmission drain plug. Course will be a heck of a long time before we see if it helps
Thanks for the idea.
Will slapping a hard drive magnet on the oil and transmission drain plug magnetize them strongly enough to pick up particles just as a "traditional" magnetic drain plug?
Sounds like a good idea. Already have the "traditional" magnetic oil drain plug but couldn't find one for the transmission. Already got a hard drive magnet on the oil filter and an extra one that I will slap onto the Transmission drain plug. Course will be a heck of a long time before we see if it helps
Thanks for the idea.
A UOA measures particles smaller than 5um. It ignores the big stuff altogether. To test filtration, you need a particle count. Because motor oil goes dark, you generally can't use an automatic optical counter, you have to go with a manual optical count (via the Mark 1 human eyeball) or by the pore blockage method.
In reality, the best way to test the effectiveness of magnets is via a ferrographic analysis. This test can capture and count the ferrous particles. Expensive to do.
A magnet's power diminishes with heat so only certain types are used in these circumstances.
Basically, anything you do will help. My only concern is for the cost of certain products versus their true effectiveness. All we have to go on are the mfrs. claims.
In reality, the best way to test the effectiveness of magnets is via a ferrographic analysis. This test can capture and count the ferrous particles. Expensive to do.
A magnet's power diminishes with heat so only certain types are used in these circumstances.
Basically, anything you do will help. My only concern is for the cost of certain products versus their true effectiveness. All we have to go on are the mfrs. claims.
Originally Posted By: dvldoc
I got a 12 hard drive magnets from ebay for like 10 bucks so I will put those to use on the tranny pan, oil pain and both my remote tranny filter and remote bypass setup. Hey for 10 bucks it can't hurt.
Yep, that's a good way to approach it!
I got a 12 hard drive magnets from ebay for like 10 bucks so I will put those to use on the tranny pan, oil pain and both my remote tranny filter and remote bypass setup. Hey for 10 bucks it can't hurt.
Yep, that's a good way to approach it!
Originally Posted By: mongo161
The ONLY problem that I see with putting any magnet on an oil filter is this.....
If you go to get some work done on a vehicle....and an unscrupulous mechanic happens to see and want that magnet it will disappear fast.
Not only will your good magnet disappear....but think of the consequences of his action. All the iron and steel that the magnet had trapped suddenly is re-released back into the oil flow in a sudden plume of metal particles.... when the engine is turned back on.
IMO....that damage is irreversible and the particles that were trapped would be felt and seen big time in wear to the engine. That start up may sound worse than any failure of a ADBV or Dry Start ever experienced.
I think that's a null issue really.....for one, take your car to mechanics you trust, and/or b, review their work with them after they perform their service. I've always done that.....one time I took my car in to get a battery changed out, they put the battery in fine, np, but when I came out to the car, they left their wrench(es) under the hood, and didn't even re-connect the hold-down bar for the battery. Needless to say, I connected the hold-down and got a new set of tools I didn't really need
But yea, you do make a good point, if a mechanic really wanted to be a "wise [censored]" per se, noticed the magnet, and KNEW what it was used for.....sure, he could take it off, crank the car over for a little spin around the block, then put it back on.....potentially causing some damage....since the "previously" suspended metals on the magnet would now be going through the engine....
The ONLY problem that I see with putting any magnet on an oil filter is this.....
If you go to get some work done on a vehicle....and an unscrupulous mechanic happens to see and want that magnet it will disappear fast.
Not only will your good magnet disappear....but think of the consequences of his action. All the iron and steel that the magnet had trapped suddenly is re-released back into the oil flow in a sudden plume of metal particles.... when the engine is turned back on.
IMO....that damage is irreversible and the particles that were trapped would be felt and seen big time in wear to the engine. That start up may sound worse than any failure of a ADBV or Dry Start ever experienced.
I think that's a null issue really.....for one, take your car to mechanics you trust, and/or b, review their work with them after they perform their service. I've always done that.....one time I took my car in to get a battery changed out, they put the battery in fine, np, but when I came out to the car, they left their wrench(es) under the hood, and didn't even re-connect the hold-down bar for the battery. Needless to say, I connected the hold-down and got a new set of tools I didn't really need
But yea, you do make a good point, if a mechanic really wanted to be a "wise [censored]" per se, noticed the magnet, and KNEW what it was used for.....sure, he could take it off, crank the car over for a little spin around the block, then put it back on.....potentially causing some damage....since the "previously" suspended metals on the magnet would now be going through the engine....
Originally Posted By: tommygunn
But yea, you do make a good point, if a mechanic really wanted to be a "wise [censored]" per se, noticed the magnet, and KNEW what it was used for.....sure, he could take it off, crank the car over for a little spin around the block, then put it back on.....potentially causing some damage....since the "previously" suspended metals on the magnet would now be going through the engine....
The particles would have to go through the media first ... just like they would anyway if a magnet was never used.
But yea, you do make a good point, if a mechanic really wanted to be a "wise [censored]" per se, noticed the magnet, and KNEW what it was used for.....sure, he could take it off, crank the car over for a little spin around the block, then put it back on.....potentially causing some damage....since the "previously" suspended metals on the magnet would now be going through the engine....
The particles would have to go through the media first ... just like they would anyway if a magnet was never used.
Unless (as I think I mentioned before) the adhered particles are too small for the media to catch. That of course is the main point of using such a magnet--to catch particles the media can't.
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