Leave the oil in, there is nothing to support changing it earlier than the recommended OCI, it's very hard to be patient and wait, we've all been there.
TOTO.
TOTO.
Factory fill interval
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Triple_Se7en
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Nothing to support changing it??
...... how about being first and last owner of your vehicle? That's not enough support?
...... how about being first and last owner of your vehicle? That's not enough support?
Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
Nothing to support changing it??
...... how about being first and last owner of your vehicle? That's not enough support?
How many and where are the cases of engine rebuilds, because the factory fill wasn't dumped early? There are UOA's showing recommended OCI can be done. Plus this is a hybrid where it likely can last longer.
Nothing to support changing it??
...... how about being first and last owner of your vehicle? That's not enough support?
How many and where are the cases of engine rebuilds, because the factory fill wasn't dumped early? There are UOA's showing recommended OCI can be done. Plus this is a hybrid where it likely can last longer.
Great original post question. As I've read (and expected)...contrasting opinions.
Glad you decided to change it before your trip.
Surprised the dealer wouldn't take you in now (early). Never heard of a dealer refusing to do an oil change. Maybe taking to another Toyota another dealer is the answer.
We have a newer vehicle here...so practicing the preach...at 2000 miles...we took it to our dealer to get a full synthetic oil & filter change.
Dealer asked "why are you changing it so soon".
I responded "I prefer to have my oil and protection exceed minimum warranty standards".
Dealer responded " you're not due for your first change until the recommended 3000 miles...but there's nothing but good that comes from doing it now...other than paying for it early of course. Changing your oil, even with synthetic, before the recommended mileage levels is only going to help the longevity of your engine".
With a newer vehicle, there's a rare opportunity to keep the engine in top condition via cleaner oil.
If I were going to take a trip like yours...I'd also get an oil change before the trip (and depending on how many miles you drive on the trip...maybe afterwards as well). Yeah...it's a bit more money...but also peace of mind and preventive maintenance to help keep the engine running well for years to come.
Glad you decided to change it before your trip.
Surprised the dealer wouldn't take you in now (early). Never heard of a dealer refusing to do an oil change. Maybe taking to another Toyota another dealer is the answer.
We have a newer vehicle here...so practicing the preach...at 2000 miles...we took it to our dealer to get a full synthetic oil & filter change.
Dealer asked "why are you changing it so soon".
I responded "I prefer to have my oil and protection exceed minimum warranty standards".
Dealer responded " you're not due for your first change until the recommended 3000 miles...but there's nothing but good that comes from doing it now...other than paying for it early of course. Changing your oil, even with synthetic, before the recommended mileage levels is only going to help the longevity of your engine".
With a newer vehicle, there's a rare opportunity to keep the engine in top condition via cleaner oil.
If I were going to take a trip like yours...I'd also get an oil change before the trip (and depending on how many miles you drive on the trip...maybe afterwards as well). Yeah...it's a bit more money...but also peace of mind and preventive maintenance to help keep the engine running well for years to come.
The days of a block full of sand and hone marksfull of grit are long long gone.
OP can happily go on his trip without worry, through either course of action.
The "one off" chance to protect the engine is pretty specious...akin to the more expensive oil protects your engine better argument in another thread.
It's the oil that's being changed, not the engine. The oil that you take out will be lubricating just as good (in the absence of things like fuel dilution, which won't be a problem on a long run), and the filter will be filtering just a tiny but better than a fresh one.
OP can happily go on his trip without worry, through either course of action.
The "one off" chance to protect the engine is pretty specious...akin to the more expensive oil protects your engine better argument in another thread.
It's the oil that's being changed, not the engine. The oil that you take out will be lubricating just as good (in the absence of things like fuel dilution, which won't be a problem on a long run), and the filter will be filtering just a tiny but better than a fresh one.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
The days of a block full of sand and hone marksfull of grit are long long gone.
OP can happily go on his trip without worry, through either course of action.
The "one off" chance to protect the engine is pretty specious...akin to the more expensive oil protects your engine better argument in another thread.
It's the oil that's being changed, not the engine. The oil that you take out will be lubricating just as good (in the absence of things like fuel dilution, which won't be a problem on a long run), and the filter will be filtering just a tiny but better than a fresh one.
I suspect you are correct. Interesting information.
However...I have been reading (in great detail) about the more recent changes to conventional wisdom regarding oil changes (including using synthetic) based mostly upon engineering updates.
Specifically, this appears to be driven by more and more newer vehicles with direct injection (DI) engines (more than 70% of the 2017 models and 75% of 2018 models have them), as well as turbochargers.
Improved performance and better fuel economy have motivated manufactures to increasingly adopted both these technologies. Those two things lead to revised value/benefits from better quality detergent oils, and added protection from synthetic oils with additives.
In lay terms...the newer DI engines and those with turbochargers both benefit from more frequent oil changes and quality synthetic motor oil. Having both a DI engine and turbo...the choice here is to follow a more conservative preventive maintenance approach and insist on quality synthetic oil. The 3-4 dealer service departments I have visited all agree that approach is prudent with those technologies.
The days of a block full of sand and hone marksfull of grit are long long gone.
OP can happily go on his trip without worry, through either course of action.
The "one off" chance to protect the engine is pretty specious...akin to the more expensive oil protects your engine better argument in another thread.
It's the oil that's being changed, not the engine. The oil that you take out will be lubricating just as good (in the absence of things like fuel dilution, which won't be a problem on a long run), and the filter will be filtering just a tiny but better than a fresh one.
I suspect you are correct. Interesting information.
However...I have been reading (in great detail) about the more recent changes to conventional wisdom regarding oil changes (including using synthetic) based mostly upon engineering updates.
Specifically, this appears to be driven by more and more newer vehicles with direct injection (DI) engines (more than 70% of the 2017 models and 75% of 2018 models have them), as well as turbochargers.
Improved performance and better fuel economy have motivated manufactures to increasingly adopted both these technologies. Those two things lead to revised value/benefits from better quality detergent oils, and added protection from synthetic oils with additives.
In lay terms...the newer DI engines and those with turbochargers both benefit from more frequent oil changes and quality synthetic motor oil. Having both a DI engine and turbo...the choice here is to follow a more conservative preventive maintenance approach and insist on quality synthetic oil. The 3-4 dealer service departments I have visited all agree that approach is prudent with those technologies.
It's my understanding that a modern engine factory puts each new engine through an automated sequence to run the rpms up and down, loaded and engine braking to seat the rings etc.
Most of the wear-in is done in those few minutes.
So drain the "test" oil and refill, removing the initial "trash".
Still, if I bought a new car I'd change the motor oil AND the transmission fluid/oil early.
Most of the wear-in is done in those few minutes.
So drain the "test" oil and refill, removing the initial "trash".
Still, if I bought a new car I'd change the motor oil AND the transmission fluid/oil early.
Patman
Staff member
FWIW, at the 1100 mile UOA in my Corvette it showed 2% fuel (probably due to lots of cold starts/stops during the assembly/transport process) and also showed 124 ppm of silicon and 48 ppm of iron. While none of that was at catastrophic amounts by any means, getting that out of my brand new engine was definitely a good thing, IMO.
One really doesn't know how much potentially damaging "stuff" is actually in the oil via a standard UOA using ICP. You could have a UOA with sky-high metal results yet the oil would be harmless to the engine, with the opposite also being true.
This illustration is lifted from a Machinery Lubrication article. Note the upper limit of size detectable by emission spectrography and where it falls on their threat graph:
This illustration is lifted from a Machinery Lubrication article. Note the upper limit of size detectable by emission spectrography and where it falls on their threat graph:
My 350 is my first vehicle I am not changing the oil early. Slowly I am trusting that it does not cause any issues. I am becoming a longer drain fan and all my vehicles get ~10k intervals.
As for the higher iron in initial samples. Are those particle sizes big enough to cause wear? I am thinking just because it can be counted by uoa does not mean they are big enough to matter. I don't know the answer.
As for the higher iron in initial samples. Are those particle sizes big enough to cause wear? I am thinking just because it can be counted by uoa does not mean they are big enough to matter. I don't know the answer.
Originally Posted By: BeerCan
My 350 is my first vehicle I am not changing the oil early. Slowly I am trusting that it does not cause any issues. I am becoming a longer drain fan and all my vehicles get ~10k intervals.
As for the higher iron in initial samples. Are those particle sizes big enough to cause wear? I am thinking just because it can be counted by uoa does not mean they are big enough to matter. I don't know the answer.
Even the finest particles if left in circulation long enough can cause wear, especially to softer metals. I remember and old time engine builder tell me this. Think of the finest sandpaper something like 4000 grit, rub it on a painted surface long enough and it will wear the paint off, and metal as well. They also use 4000 grit stones to sharpen knives. I didn't need him to tell me to change my oil early, I learned it in shop class in the 70's. Then there are guys I met here like Trav, that are a wealth of knowledge, and they dump the FF early too. Peace of mind, waste of money, smart move. I guess it depends on who you talk to, I'll stick with dumping it early.
My 350 is my first vehicle I am not changing the oil early. Slowly I am trusting that it does not cause any issues. I am becoming a longer drain fan and all my vehicles get ~10k intervals.
As for the higher iron in initial samples. Are those particle sizes big enough to cause wear? I am thinking just because it can be counted by uoa does not mean they are big enough to matter. I don't know the answer.
Even the finest particles if left in circulation long enough can cause wear, especially to softer metals. I remember and old time engine builder tell me this. Think of the finest sandpaper something like 4000 grit, rub it on a painted surface long enough and it will wear the paint off, and metal as well. They also use 4000 grit stones to sharpen knives. I didn't need him to tell me to change my oil early, I learned it in shop class in the 70's. Then there are guys I met here like Trav, that are a wealth of knowledge, and they dump the FF early too. Peace of mind, waste of money, smart move. I guess it depends on who you talk to, I'll stick with dumping it early.
I have done it both ways and seemed to get better results by leaving the oil in. I bought a new chevrolet truck back in 1998 with the 5.7L. I changed the oil early at 1,942 miles and every 3,000 miles after that. I still own this truck today with 136,000 miles and it uses about a quart of oil every 3,000 miles.
In August of 2013, I bought a new 2014 Mustang GT and decided to change the oil by the manufacturer's recommendation which is one year or 10,000 miles or use the OLM. I changed the oil for the first time at the one year mark of when the car was built with 4,600 miles on the oil change. The next year I went 7,200 miles on the oil change. So far, I have always gone by the one year mark since this car is not a daily driver. This car does not use any oil and I don't have to add any oil during the year.
Even my examples don't really prove anything but I know changing the oil on my truck early didn't prevent oil usage and I still got piston slap on initial startup. This truck wasn't ever used hard so it's not because the engine is wore out.
There is no evidence that I have seen that proves that early oil changes extends engine life so I'm good with going by manufacturer's recommendations.
In August of 2013, I bought a new 2014 Mustang GT and decided to change the oil by the manufacturer's recommendation which is one year or 10,000 miles or use the OLM. I changed the oil for the first time at the one year mark of when the car was built with 4,600 miles on the oil change. The next year I went 7,200 miles on the oil change. So far, I have always gone by the one year mark since this car is not a daily driver. This car does not use any oil and I don't have to add any oil during the year.
Even my examples don't really prove anything but I know changing the oil on my truck early didn't prevent oil usage and I still got piston slap on initial startup. This truck wasn't ever used hard so it's not because the engine is wore out.
There is no evidence that I have seen that proves that early oil changes extends engine life so I'm good with going by manufacturer's recommendations.
Patman
Staff member
Originally Posted By: wtd
There is no evidence that I have seen that proves that early oil changes extends engine life so I'm good with going by manufacturer's recommendations.
True, but at the same time, how much is an oil change? Isn't it worth that small expense even if there is the slightest chance it could extend the life of your engine, even by just a tiny bit?
There is no evidence that I have seen that proves that early oil changes extends engine life so I'm good with going by manufacturer's recommendations.
True, but at the same time, how much is an oil change? Isn't it worth that small expense even if there is the slightest chance it could extend the life of your engine, even by just a tiny bit?
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