Looks like farmers are having difficulty at the moment.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/08/us-monsanto-results-idUSKCN0S11C120151008
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/08/us-monsanto-results-idUSKCN0S11C120151008
Ethanol and Internal Combustion Engines
- Thread starter Rat407
- Start date
- Status
They always are, but I think farmers worry a lot more about weather, commodity prices, input costs, and ability to get their product to market than they do about the rise and fall on Monsanto's fortunes.
That goes to the heart of the problem in debates like this. Folks equate the big box agri outfits with farmers as being the same thing. They are not even close to the same critter and their motivations rarely mesh.
Farmers still can survive without big agriculture. There's a whole group of farmers out there that do farm without chemicals, just like the old days.
Of course. But almost all don't. A lot easier to follow what big agri and big .gov tell you is the right way. Never mind the legal system is against them. I'm sure you've heard of all the court cases where farmers were sued because Monsanto/etc technology contaminated their crop.
People don't have to "follow" anything. You choose to spray, or you choose not to spray. You choose to fertilize, or you choose not to fertilize. And yes, there have been those court cases. Contrary to what the media would like to paint, Monsanto wasn't the big evil and the farmer the little saint in all these cases. There is always two sides to every story, and these cases were ridiculously isolated.
In some cases, I wouldn't be surprised if a farmer had stolen the seed and no one could prove it beyond a reasonable doubt (for a criminal conviction) and the corporations went after the matter civilly, with a lower burden of proof.
There is always a very big part of the story missing in the media in cases like these. You're also missing the cases where agricultural monopolies have been slapped down hard or eliminated in recent years, particularly up here.
Big agricultural companies went from being the make or break companies in every tiny town in this province to complete irrelevance to those towns.
In some cases, I wouldn't be surprised if a farmer had stolen the seed and no one could prove it beyond a reasonable doubt (for a criminal conviction) and the corporations went after the matter civilly, with a lower burden of proof.
There is always a very big part of the story missing in the media in cases like these. You're also missing the cases where agricultural monopolies have been slapped down hard or eliminated in recent years, particularly up here.
Big agricultural companies went from being the make or break companies in every tiny town in this province to complete irrelevance to those towns.
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
That would not be true. Ethanol is a hydrocarbon at C2H6O molecular composition. So it will produce water and carbon dioxide in a proper combustion. Carbon dioxide is a pollutant but won't cause acid rain or smog.
Somehow, plants didn't get the memo that CO2 is a pollutant. Plants seem to enjoy having an abundance of CO2. And several researchers involved with climate change stuff, Dr. David Evans comes to mind, assert that the CO2 influence on the climate has been overblown and minuscule at best.
That would not be true. Ethanol is a hydrocarbon at C2H6O molecular composition. So it will produce water and carbon dioxide in a proper combustion. Carbon dioxide is a pollutant but won't cause acid rain or smog.
Somehow, plants didn't get the memo that CO2 is a pollutant. Plants seem to enjoy having an abundance of CO2. And several researchers involved with climate change stuff, Dr. David Evans comes to mind, assert that the CO2 influence on the climate has been overblown and minuscule at best.
Originally Posted By: CT8
Plants thrive on CO2. And CO2 causes plants to grow more with less water.
:YAWN:
and obvious :facepalm: that this "thriving" is insufficient for them to reach a new equilibrium.
CO@ is rising...it means that the plants can't keep up...it's obvious.
Plants thrive on CO2. And CO2 causes plants to grow more with less water.
:YAWN:
and obvious :facepalm: that this "thriving" is insufficient for them to reach a new equilibrium.
CO@ is rising...it means that the plants can't keep up...it's obvious.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
[
CO@ is rising...
You think? I though you said there was no such thing happening.
[
CO@ is rising...
You think? I though you said there was no such thing happening.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: Shannow
[
CO@ is rising...
You think? I though you said there was no such thing happening.
Where the F did you get that ?
Find me a single post where I have stated that CO2 is not rising...
[censored] troll !!!
edit...and your trucker mate thinks it's a good thing...what say you ?
Originally Posted By: Shannow
[
CO@ is rising...
You think? I though you said there was no such thing happening.
Where the F did you get that ?
Find me a single post where I have stated that CO2 is not rising...
[censored] troll !!!
edit...and your trucker mate thinks it's a good thing...what say you ?
Last edited:
So what? Measurements in rock structures have show CO2 was higher during the last ice age than it is now. Probably not enough plants growing in glaciers. Should we anticipate global cooling? No wait, that is sooo 1980's. Now it's global warming. No wait, the earth has not experienced any temperature rise for the last 18 years. So now do we go back to global cooling idea? And what of those 97% of scientists that support global climate change. That was determined by a psychologist in Great Britain who did a search on the reference "climate change" in thousands of article written by scientists. Just the mention of climate change was determined that a scientist supported it.
I will do what I have always done in 59 years.... not worry about it. I will just shake my head that there are so many other problems that are more critical to worry about, why would anyone even waste their time on this dribble. There are genocides occurring in the world at the hands of evil folks and we are beyond our eyeballs in debt, all the while, we are worrying about a slight rise in CO2 and pumping billions of dollars we don't have into some idea that it needs fixing? I think we have gone off the rails. There is no doubt left in my mind that the inmates have taken over the asylum.
I will do what I have always done in 59 years.... not worry about it. I will just shake my head that there are so many other problems that are more critical to worry about, why would anyone even waste their time on this dribble. There are genocides occurring in the world at the hands of evil folks and we are beyond our eyeballs in debt, all the while, we are worrying about a slight rise in CO2 and pumping billions of dollars we don't have into some idea that it needs fixing? I think we have gone off the rails. There is no doubt left in my mind that the inmates have taken over the asylum.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Find me a single post where I have stated that CO2 is not rising...
Are you saying you don't flip flop positions as a matter of course within a debate?
Find me a single post where I have stated that CO2 is not rising...
Are you saying you don't flip flop positions as a matter of course within a debate?
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: Shannow
[
CO@ is rising...
You think? I though you said there was no such thing happening.
Where the F did you get that ?
Find me a single post where I have stated that CO2 is not rising...
[censored] troll !!!
edit...and your trucker mate thinks it's a good thing...what say you ?
You don't believe in global warming. But you believe co2 is rising. You best check your redneck 101 cheat sheet.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: Shannow
[
CO@ is rising...
You think? I though you said there was no such thing happening.
Where the F did you get that ?
Find me a single post where I have stated that CO2 is not rising...
[censored] troll !!!
edit...and your trucker mate thinks it's a good thing...what say you ?
You don't believe in global warming. But you believe co2 is rising. You best check your redneck 101 cheat sheet.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
You don't believe in global warming. But you believe co2 is rising. You best check your redneck 101 cheat sheet.
Ahh, the old turtle squirm again, and change direction.
Your statement was clear, that I denied CO2 increase, which is patently false...it's your standard OP to misrepresent people's positions.
As to no believing, I've stated on many occasions that I'm not convinced on either side, especially the "plants love it" argument, and have and do argue for a prudent use of resources just in case...besides, they last longer then.
Having studied heat transfer in boilers, where one of the main radiant gasses IS CO2, I know that CO2 radiates heat to black bodies. The media campaign of CO2 being like a feather blanket covering the globe is an incorrect simplification designed to appeal to dolts.
As to my statements about it being politicised, the liberals (labor) in Oz instituted a carbon tax, which they used to transfer wealth by giving $1B to brown coal, and overcompensation welfare recipients by a factor of three time the pain the tax caused...were they concerned about CO2, or were they using it as a lever to tax higher and distribute it back to their voters ?
You don't believe in global warming. But you believe co2 is rising. You best check your redneck 101 cheat sheet.
Ahh, the old turtle squirm again, and change direction.
Your statement was clear, that I denied CO2 increase, which is patently false...it's your standard OP to misrepresent people's positions.
As to no believing, I've stated on many occasions that I'm not convinced on either side, especially the "plants love it" argument, and have and do argue for a prudent use of resources just in case...besides, they last longer then.
Having studied heat transfer in boilers, where one of the main radiant gasses IS CO2, I know that CO2 radiates heat to black bodies. The media campaign of CO2 being like a feather blanket covering the globe is an incorrect simplification designed to appeal to dolts.
As to my statements about it being politicised, the liberals (labor) in Oz instituted a carbon tax, which they used to transfer wealth by giving $1B to brown coal, and overcompensation welfare recipients by a factor of three time the pain the tax caused...were they concerned about CO2, or were they using it as a lever to tax higher and distribute it back to their voters ?
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
So what? Measurements in rock structures have show CO2 was higher during the last ice age than it is now. Probably not enough plants growing in glaciers. Should we anticipate global cooling? No wait, that is sooo 1980's. Now it's global warming. No wait, the earth has not experienced any temperature rise for the last 18 years. So now do we go back to global cooling idea? And what of those 97% of scientists that support global climate change. That was determined by a psychologist in Great Britain who did a search on the reference "climate change" in thousands of article written by scientists. Just the mention of climate change was determined that a scientist supported it.
I will do what I have always done in 59 years.... not worry about it. I will just shake my head that there are so many other problems that are more critical to worry about, why would anyone even waste their time on this dribble. There are genocides occurring in the world at the hands of evil folks and we are beyond our eyeballs in debt, all the while, we are worrying about a slight rise in CO2 and pumping billions of dollars we don't have into some idea that it needs fixing? I think we have gone off the rails. There is no doubt left in my mind that the inmates have taken over the asylum.
I no doubt have some amount of confirmation bias but what you have said there is the most cogent few words I have seen on the subject in quite some time. Hysteria always makes me look for the "hustle" and I believe we are being hustled for a variety of purposes but mainly for redistribution of wealth. Look no further than the flood of money that went to the well-connected for the great green energy boondoggle. That's just the prelude to the larger Let's save the planet" bustle. Protect the environment, absolutely. Reasonable alternatives, you bet. Blind panic, check your wallet.
So what? Measurements in rock structures have show CO2 was higher during the last ice age than it is now. Probably not enough plants growing in glaciers. Should we anticipate global cooling? No wait, that is sooo 1980's. Now it's global warming. No wait, the earth has not experienced any temperature rise for the last 18 years. So now do we go back to global cooling idea? And what of those 97% of scientists that support global climate change. That was determined by a psychologist in Great Britain who did a search on the reference "climate change" in thousands of article written by scientists. Just the mention of climate change was determined that a scientist supported it.
I will do what I have always done in 59 years.... not worry about it. I will just shake my head that there are so many other problems that are more critical to worry about, why would anyone even waste their time on this dribble. There are genocides occurring in the world at the hands of evil folks and we are beyond our eyeballs in debt, all the while, we are worrying about a slight rise in CO2 and pumping billions of dollars we don't have into some idea that it needs fixing? I think we have gone off the rails. There is no doubt left in my mind that the inmates have taken over the asylum.
I no doubt have some amount of confirmation bias but what you have said there is the most cogent few words I have seen on the subject in quite some time. Hysteria always makes me look for the "hustle" and I believe we are being hustled for a variety of purposes but mainly for redistribution of wealth. Look no further than the flood of money that went to the well-connected for the great green energy boondoggle. That's just the prelude to the larger Let's save the planet" bustle. Protect the environment, absolutely. Reasonable alternatives, you bet. Blind panic, check your wallet.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: CT8
Plants thrive on CO2. And CO2 causes plants to grow more with less water.
:YAWN:
and obvious :facepalm: that this "thriving" is insufficient for them to reach a new equilibrium.
CO@ is rising...it means that the plants can't keep up...it's obvious.
So what? I could really not care less that CO2 might be rising. Component levels in the atmosphere rise and fall in cycles all the time and have since the dawn of time. There was substantially more CO2 levels during the last ice age than now, as determine by geologic findings. So I am not losing any sleep over some assertion that they might be rising.
One thing that gets lost in all of this is, we have no definitive standard to determine what is a "normal" level of CO2. We have only been measuring this stuff for a couple of hundred years at best, and we think we know what is a "normal" level? We could, in fact, have been at a below normal level and now it is starting to rise again back to a normal level. So many assertions. And such vast claims made with half vast data.
The more this stuff gets thrown around like some form of religious mantra, the more I come to believe it is nothing more that the modern version of Communism. Just a way to gain control over people's lives and control their behavior. All under the marketing guise of "for the children", "saving the planet", and other dribble. The planet is doing just fine. It was here before us and it will be here long after us.
Originally Posted By: CT8
Plants thrive on CO2. And CO2 causes plants to grow more with less water.
:YAWN:
and obvious :facepalm: that this "thriving" is insufficient for them to reach a new equilibrium.
CO@ is rising...it means that the plants can't keep up...it's obvious.
So what? I could really not care less that CO2 might be rising. Component levels in the atmosphere rise and fall in cycles all the time and have since the dawn of time. There was substantially more CO2 levels during the last ice age than now, as determine by geologic findings. So I am not losing any sleep over some assertion that they might be rising.
One thing that gets lost in all of this is, we have no definitive standard to determine what is a "normal" level of CO2. We have only been measuring this stuff for a couple of hundred years at best, and we think we know what is a "normal" level? We could, in fact, have been at a below normal level and now it is starting to rise again back to a normal level. So many assertions. And such vast claims made with half vast data.
The more this stuff gets thrown around like some form of religious mantra, the more I come to believe it is nothing more that the modern version of Communism. Just a way to gain control over people's lives and control their behavior. All under the marketing guise of "for the children", "saving the planet", and other dribble. The planet is doing just fine. It was here before us and it will be here long after us.
TiredTrucker, but surely you can acknowledge that in all of these natural cycles there has never been a species like us extracting buried carbon and releasing it into the atmosphere.
That's different...how big I don't know, but clearly, and irrefutably different.
That's different...how big I don't know, but clearly, and irrefutably different.
- Status
Similar threads
