Engine Flush - Opinions

[Noobie]

Hey there again
Recently while i was in a auto parts store for some tires i saw a couple bottles of "Prestone Engine Flush - Only takes 5 minutes"
So here is my dilemma, currently i have a couple BMW's and one of them is a very very neglected E39 5 Series BMW with the M54 engine. Like a year ago it had a severe sludge problem and our indy mech had to open the valve cover and do a complete cleaning . . . but i have a feeling that there is still a ton of sludge inside the engine. As of now, the engine usually consumes a QUART of oil every 500 - 750 KILOMETERS which is insanely high. Now my question is . . . is this product safe to use?

According to the instructions it says that you have to add a whole can of it (Like 32Oz) before changing the oil, then stat the engine and let it idle for 5 mins for a regular cleaning or 10 mins for severe cases. What do you guys think? Is it worth it? Is it safe to use?

 

[askani79705]

No,I wouldn't.Quick cleans tend to release big chunks of gunk which in turn clog up important things,If you want to go the flush route I'd look at either Kreen or Auto Rx you'll find many threads in the forum about them.Sounds to me like you've got a PCV that needs attention,then some Penzoil Ultra

Insomnia left me with time to find this.

 

[The Critic]

If I were to try a quick flush product, I would consider the Amsoil Engine Flush since it is supposed to be detergent-based and not solvent-based. The detergent-based composition may be less harmful to seals. Regardless, I would not expect any miracles.

 

[NMBurb02]

Originally Posted By: askani79705
No,I wouldn't.Quick cleans tend to release big chunks of gunk which in turn clog up important things,If you want to go the flush route I'd look at either Kreen or Auto Rx you'll find many threads in the forum about them.Sounds to me like you've got a PCV that needs attention,then some Penzoil Ultra

Insomnia left me with time to find this.

Those Germans sure know how to complicate something as simple as a PCV system. I've replaced the PCV valves on the last three used cars I purchased (Ford, Chevy, Pontiac) for $2.99 per valve, an elbow fitting for the Ford, and about 30 seconds of "labor".

I'd take advantage of the PP/PU oil change specials at AZ right now and probably take the slow and steady approach of PP for one or two short OCIs (1/2 of severe service interval) and then one or two severe OCI with PU.

 

[skyship]

Don't flush an oil burner or you will probably make the problem worse because any varnish deposits will be helping to seal the valve guides, oil seals and gaskets.
The best cheap thing to do is to change to using a major brand HM (High mileage) oil and as your oil consumption is bad move up a grade if possible. Keep the first OCI short as the HM oils are good cleaners. A blocked crank case vent can increase the oil consumption, so check that it is clean if your engine has one. Castrol make 6 different HM oils, so you can find the grade you need, probably a 5 or 10/40. Mobil and Shell also make good HM oils.
One question for you is why do you think the engine still has sludge in it as you said it was cleaned a year ago, also which oil and OCI are you using at present? If most of the sludge was cleaned out and you have been using a good oil with a sensible OCI the engine is probably clean.

 

[DragRace]

Of all my years around automobiles and trucks,not once have I resorted to engine flushes,totally not needed IMO.

 

[skyship]

Using any kind of flush can have side effects, with oil leaks top of the list. GM and Hyundai both have current warnings valid for petrol cars due to damage to the type of oil seals they use caused by unapproved flush additives.
If you must use a flush and don't want to pay to use an engine flush machine at a dealer or Iffy lube, the pre OCI idle only flushes like the one made by Amsoil or Liqui Moly Pro line flush (NOT THE DRIVE AROUND SCOURER) are far safer to use because if you block the oil filter it won't damage an engine idling for 10 minutes. Even if you blocked the oil pump feed screen it will not damage the engine at idle assuming you are watching the warning light. Lots of garages use idle flushes and even Castrol make one and the only side effect I have come across is the same one as can result from changing to a high detergent full synthetic oil in an old engine and that is oil leaks.
If you can afford the time or cost there is nothing better than reading the maintenance manual and cleaning the engine top and bottom by hand, although the new flush machines are supposed to be good if used correctly with the recommended cleaning fluid.

 

[TuBon_gRips]

Originally Posted By: DragRace
Of all my years around automobiles and trucks,not once have I resorted to engine flushes,totally not needed IMO.


I got conned into it when I was young and dumb. On top of that, I thought "why don't I dump it in before I drive home, that should make it work better".

Luckily, no damage was done, though I did drop the ban 3mo later and find a bunch if chunks that had broken free, with only a few stuck in the pickup screen. I definitely got lucky, but at the same time, the flush definitely did what it was supposed to do.

Now, I do see a use for these flushes, but I also see a different way to use them. A quick manual cleaning of the top and bottom, followed by the flush combined with a light-weight dino (or a cheap 0w20 syn if you like), at idle until 5-10min after the engine reaches operating temp. Drain, clean the top and bottom again, replace seals, rinse with more of your light-weight oil, drain that, then fill with a decent oil. Every bit as good (and safe) as a manual cleaning in about 1/4 the time.

Of course, the best method is to take care of your engine, and not buy a vehicle that's going to need this treatment.

 

[TuBon_gRips]

Originally Posted By: skyship
Using any kind of flush can have side effects, with oil leaks top of the list. GM and Hyundai both have current warnings valid for petrol cars due to damage to the type of oil seals they use caused by unapproved flush additives.
If you must use a flush and don't want to pay to use an engine flush machine at a dealer or Iffy lube, the pre OCI idle only flushes like the one made by Amsoil or Liqui Moly Pro line flush (NOT THE DRIVE AROUND SCOURER) are far safer to use because if you block the oil filter it won't damage an engine idling for 10 minutes. Even if you blocked the oil pump feed screen it will not damage the engine at idle assuming you are watching the warning light. Lots of garages use idle flushes and even Castrol make one and the only side effect I have come across is the same one as can result from changing to a high detergent full synthetic oil in an old engine and that is oil leaks.
If you can afford the time or cost there is nothing better than reading the maintenance manual and cleaning the engine top and bottom by hand, although the new flush machines are supposed to be good if used correctly with the recommended cleaning fluid.


So idle flushes are alright now? Sheesh. I was relieved when I saw this thread posted in PCMO, but then you found it anyway.

Let me lay it out for you again: the idle flushes are designed to break chunks off. If you don't get those out, they cause damage. The run-in solvents are designed to soften deposits so the oil can dissolve them and the filter can pick them up; much smaller pieces that aren't going to clog anything (except maybe the filter, in which case you change it).

To answer OP's question, like many others posting here were trying to do, no, you should not use that flush unless you are prepared to replace seals and drop the pan to remove any chunks that break free (preferably following the procedure detailed in my previous post). IMO and IME, askani79705's Kreen or Auto-RX suggestion is a good one, though Pennzoil Ultra and MMO did the trick for me in about 750 miles (there the oil alone didn't seem to do much over the course of 2000 miles)

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: KeMBro2012
Originally Posted By: skyship
Using any kind of flush can have side effects, with oil leaks top of the list. GM and Hyundai both have current warnings valid for petrol cars due to damage to the type of oil seals they use caused by unapproved flush additives.
If you must use a flush and don't want to pay to use an engine flush machine at a dealer or Iffy lube, the pre OCI idle only flushes like the one made by Amsoil or Liqui Moly Pro line flush (NOT THE DRIVE AROUND SCOURER) are far safer to use because if you block the oil filter it won't damage an engine idling for 10 minutes. Even if you blocked the oil pump feed screen it will not damage the engine at idle assuming you are watching the warning light. Lots of garages use idle flushes and even Castrol make one and the only side effect I have come across is the same one as can result from changing to a high detergent full synthetic oil in an old engine and that is oil leaks.
If you can afford the time or cost there is nothing better than reading the maintenance manual and cleaning the engine top and bottom by hand, although the new flush machines are supposed to be good if used correctly with the recommended cleaning fluid.


So idle flushes are alright now? Sheesh. I was relieved when I saw this thread posted in PCMO, but then you found it anyway.

Let me lay it out for you again: the idle flushes are designed to break chunks off. If you don't get those out, they cause damage. The run-in solvents are designed to soften deposits so the oil can dissolve them and the filter can pick them up; much smaller pieces that aren't going to clog anything (except maybe the filter, in which case you change it).

To answer OP's question, like many others posting here were trying to do, no, you should not use that flush unless you are prepared to replace seals and drop the pan to remove any chunks that break free (preferably following the procedure detailed in my previous post). IMO and IME, askani79705's Kreen or Auto-RX suggestion is a good one, though Pennzoil Ultra and MMO did the trick for me in about 750 miles (there the oil alone didn't seem to do much over the course of 2000 miles)


You obviously don't read posts before commenting because I warned that any flush can have side effects and must not be used on recent GM or Hyundai petrol cars in particular. If you can't afford to do a proper cleaning and clean the oil pump screen in particular, they are far safer than the drive around snake oil variety.

 

[askani79705]

Now that I've thought about it more,with the consumption you mentioned coupled with the sludge you had no flush is going to fix the problem.It's that PCV/Oil Ventilation System.Fix that first then short OCIs with the Penzoil Ultra I mentioned before.

 

[Falcon_LS]

Mobil 1 0W-40 or Pennzoil Ultra 5W-40. Doesn't get any better.

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS
Mobil 1 0W-40 or Pennzoil Ultra 5W-40. Doesn't get any better.


They might be good oils and have high detergent contents, but the OP has an engine in poor condition that is burning oil. What is required is not a synthetic oil but a special HM oil that will both reduce the oil consumption and will contain a similar level of detergents to M1.
Looking at the oil consumption if the OP changed to M1 he might need a can of snake oil stop leak in a hurry and you all know what I think of such cans. I remember one old friend many years ago with an oil burning MG GT, fist he tried Moly for some odd reason, then he tried a can of Moo oil which caused it to start leaking and didn't stop the oil burning (Broken rings), so I suggested a can of stop leak which did reduce the leaks but the engine started a death rattle a week later so he added two cans of STP which made the oil so thick it would not start, so he added two cans of flush and the engine then blew up on the motorway due to lack of oil as far as I could tell. He was unlucky to some extent because there were no HM oils available at the time.

 

[LeakySeals]

This thread should be in the additive section where additive haters don't/shouldn't go. Having used engine flushes, the threat for deposits coming off in chunks is not guaranteed. Depends on the type of deposit. Hard carbonized sludge, maybe. Soft sludge, no it wont. Emulsifys as designed. Need to look under valve cover before use. Use on a fairly clean engine for varnish? Yeah, thats fine. But fast flushes don't have time to be thorough, they are out too soon. They have to be, they ruin the oil. I prefer the slower acting drive-with additives like Kreen and MMO. Add the last topoff of your OCI. Run 1k-1500 miles. Drain the oil.

For just oil M1 HM cleans better than standard M1. PP is no better than standard M1. That I'm sure of. PU inconclusive so far, will see if its just just Pennzoil marketing trying to reverse decades of being known as the sludge king or if its real. HDEO's cleaning gasoline engines better than a PCMO syn is over rated. Avg, no better than a full syn.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
This thread should be in the additive section where additive haters don't/shouldn't go.


You're right this thread should be in the additive section. One correction though, the additive haters and bashers frequent that section of Bitog all the time.

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
This thread should be in the additive section where additive haters don't/shouldn't go.


You're right this thread should be in the additive section. One correction though, the additive haters and bashers frequent that section of Bitog all the time.

Was it you that walked me through my complaints about MMO in the gas and the catalyst efficiency CEL? Helping me rethink what I said, that it was the oil consumption more than the MMO itself?

 

[bluesubie]

Subaru of America has a TSB recommending an engine flush for certain model years when getting a P0011/P0021 engine code, which is sometimes a sign of AVCS/turbo screen clogging.

-Dennis

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
This thread should be in the additive section where additive haters don't/shouldn't go.


You're right this thread should be in the additive section. One correction though, the additive haters and bashers frequent that section of Bitog all the time.

Was it you that walked me through my complaints about MMO in the gas and the catalyst efficiency CEL? Helping me rethink what I said, that it was the oil consumption more than the MMO itself?


??????????? I'm not sure...........I recall posting in your thread/threads.

 

[rshaw125]

Mobil 1 HM was the go to oil for people who wanted longevity out of their Chrysler 2.7 sludge monsters.

 

[SLCraig]

What is the common oil burning issue on an M54 engine?
Perhaps it needs new valve guide seals, perhaps an Italian tune up would free up some stuck rings. I would go looking for the likely cause of the consumption and then decide what to do from there.
That's just me though.