E15 starting to appear.....

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I don't want ethanol in my gas unless I choose it. It's great for my turbo motor but every other internal combustion motor I want no ethanol.

I don't want 50 cents on every gallon of ethanol used paid out by the feds to support an industry that should either stand on it's own or die.
 
Originally Posted By: hatt
Why would anyone be mad that ethanol exists? People are mad about the gun to their head. This was also covered in other threads you were a part of. You were too busy shilling for the mega corps to notice if I remember right.


The gun to the head is for environmental reasons and to wean us off of oil. We've covered it and you know where I stand.

I'm certainly not shilling for big oil. I still am trying to understand motivations. There seems to be a lot of anti progressive opinions coming out of Florida.
 
Please explain how ethanol(using current technology and techniques) is going to get us off oil? And how growing massive crops used for fuel is good for the environment? We haven't covered that. Even Algore says corn ethanol is no good.
 
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That's opinion by a guy with a journalism degree. I don't think he's very intelligent. How do you begin to argue with a guy who thinks farming is more of a danger to the environment than fracking. What a tool.
 
This administration acts like they care about the environment yet we know if you weigh out all the negatives you have to wonder how they can support this program. It's got to make their beloved food stamp program more costly. I think it has a lot to do with campaign promises they made on their way thru Iowa.
 
This administration clearly is behind it and has all the ability to make changes. A lot of this program works against what this administration is about. Why Bush promoted it the way he did is beyond me. Makes no sense in the frame of him being more of an oil man.
 
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
That's opinion by a guy with a journalism degree. I don't think he's very intelligent. How do you begin to argue with a guy who thinks farming is more of a danger to the environment than fracking. What a tool.

You answered not one question in my previous post. Bashing that author doesn't answer them. HOW IS CORN ETHANOL GOING TO GET US OFF OIL? HOW IS PLANTING TENS OF MILLIONS OF ACRES OF MONOCROPS GOOD FOR THE ENVIRONMENT?
 
The corn is planted anyway. But converting it to ethanol is more of a guarantee for the corn market or another form of price support. It has driven up land prices and except for the current bumper crops, driven up the corn price too.


It really is a glorified jobs program and industry maker. Not good for cars nor the environment in the end.
 
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
The corn is planted anyway. But converting it to ethanol is more of a guarantee for the corn market or another form of price support. It has driven up land prices and except for the current bumper crops, driven up the corn price too.


It really is a glorified jobs program and industry maker. Not good for cars nor the environment in the end.


Times a dozen. Our farming subsidies are a maze of corruption and baloney already.

Then there's the environmental damage that the greenies never want to talk about...
 
I don't think the "greenies" are so much behind ethanol as companies like ADM who developed the existing corn to ethanol process. And the fuel distribution terminal operators. They are the ones who make money off the subsidy. Plus the corn farmers.
 
I don't think small corn farmers are making anything. They got stuck in the system, now have a mountain of debt, and are just trying to get by. About like the chicken growers who spend $500K on a chicken house to make $15K a year on that house. They don't build, Perdue/Tyson/whoever will take their business elsewhere.
 
Need to define small farmer. Most of the 1000 acre farmers around me are all using new equipment. I'm sure they are in hock to the teeth over it. But with 180 bushel an acre production that a lot of bucks.
 
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Need to define small farmer. Most of the 1000 acre farmers around me are all using new equipment. I'm sure they are in hock to the teeth over it. But with 180 bushel an acre production that a lot of bucks.

Even a 1000 acres is getting "small", when you get well into 7 figures for your equipment! The only guys around here farming a few hundred acres are part time farmers or near retirement and are using up the equipment they have.
Its too bad farmers couldn't have figured out a marketing board or system 30 years ago that kept farms small somehow. It would've kept the countryside populated and kept the majority of the value they produce local. Now its just a few farmers doing OK on huge plots of land making big businesses lots of money...

Ethanol from corn is an environmental disaster overall, the soil damage alone is going to be paid for some day. The only benefit really is that all its inefficient production and huge subsidies mostly employs people here.
 
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Interesting article on Forbes webb site. "Ethanol's victory could be their ruin" is what it's titled. The author believes that the scale back of the mandate would be best for the industry and if they try to force the mandate it will have large enough of a negative impact that there will be pressure to scrap the program altogether. It's a good read from a non bias source.
 
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
The corn is planted anyway. But converting it to ethanol is more of a guarantee for the corn market or another form of price support. It has driven up land prices and except for the current bumper crops, driven up the corn price too.


It really is a glorified jobs program and industry maker. Not good for cars nor the environment in the end.


What has driven up land prices is the weak dollar. When the dollar is falling against other currencies, folks that have a bunch of it will stick it in solid commodities and land. Been that way for thousands of years. It is a way for, especially rich folks on the coasts, to stash their weak dollars into hard assets to protect their wealth. A large portion of the land being bought up is going to hedge funds and investment groups. Then it is cash rented out to anyone who wants to farm it, big or small. Many of the super mega farms do not actually own most of the land they are using. They lease it from these investors. You ought to check the records at any county office in Iowa and see who owns what. Living on the farm, I get a free Platt book sent to me each year, that shows a break down on sections throughout the state on who owns what. Little 10 acre chunks all the way up to the multi thousand acre owners. I see first hand who is buying the land up.

Ethanol is just one product. Actually, corn syrup is the big cash money out of corn. You want to see some serious lobbying going on in D.C? Check out the lobbies for Sugar and Corn syrup interests. Makes ethanol pale in comparison. It is in so many processed foods and soft drinks. There is a laundry list of products that are processed out of a kernel of corn, and ethanol is just one of them. Go ask for a tour at a ethanol plant, and they will let you know what they are processing out of the corn. Take a look at the line up of trucks hauling these products out of the plants. Ask them where it is going. Those in Illinois can easily see all of this from I-80 near Anawan, IL. Containers lined up to load up with Dried Distillers grain products that are high protein feed supplements going to the coasts and much of it overseas.

Yet, in all of this, corn prices are not going anywhere. I have posted the average prices for the last 20 years. Sure it has highs and lows, but always centers around the current $4.50 a bushel. Corn just isn't going anywhere on both the futures and spot markets. Like hitching your wagon to a tree stump. Anyone investing in land just to cash in on corn, would be the laughing stock of the county.

Ethanol may have been touted as reducing our oil needs, but never to replace it in any major way. And it has had some reduction. Simple math. You replace 10% of most of the gallons of gas used, and that is a reduction of gas consumed. And no, the 10% does not lead to a 10% decrease in mpg so it is a wash. Maybe on the older vehicles, but vehicles of, at least, the last 10 years are programmed for E10 and maybe lose on average 2% economy.

But I do agree, they need not get aggressive with the ethanol mandates and start the E15 in ernest. I am all for blender pumps, where the consumer can choose what they want.... E0, E10, E15, E20, E30, E85 all from the same pump based on selection.
 
Corn prices are suppressed by the big harvest thanks to GMO corn. We've been in near drought conditions for three years here in Central Illinois yet are still getting very good yields.

What really drove up land prices around me was the expansion of housing in the south suburban Chicago area. Then those who sold their farm land for millions came down south to reinvest.

It never has leveled off since then.

Another thing with the cattle feed issues. The ethanol still provides a lot of crude protein from the waste but the starch or complex carbohydrates have been stripped. Not exactly a complete loss.
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Ethanol from corn is an environmental disaster overall, the soil damage alone is going to be paid for some day.


Yea, Not like dumping a trillion gallons of crude into the ocean. A green event.

Bad ethanol. Bad farmers.
 
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