Does Pennzoil cause sludge or not???
- Thread starter FastSUV
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Before coming to this site...I was a 100% YB or Valvoline WB user. Never a sludge issue in multiple vehicles.
Originally Posted By: FastSUV
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: FastSUV
...so it must be good eh?
Please refrain from using "EH?" unless your Canadian Eh?
haha...I did that on purpose Steve
Glad you can take a joke.
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: FastSUV
...so it must be good eh?
Please refrain from using "EH?" unless your Canadian Eh?
haha...I did that on purpose Steve
Glad you can take a joke.
Originally Posted By: FastSUV
LOL
read post #5 here:
http://forums.maxima.org/fluids-lubricants/260244-pennzoil-contains-paraffin-hence-not-used.html
Don't worry, just because there are lots of armchair scientists and "self-proclaimed" oil engineers on other automobile discussion boards doesn't necessary means that they are right, even from a pure statistical standpoint.
Reality-check: I was a provincially-certified mech before and my postings are pretty much based on straight facts, records kept and experiences, and I still selectively filters some of the poster's info on this board (most BITOG posters are my cup of tea and their information proved to be invaluable to my learning to all things related to lubrication)for all the unsubstantiated claims and hearsays (hearsays is what typical NAmericans strive on these days, and then comes along with something called the "internet")
Those who don't even have a basic idea between nathphalitic(sp?) and paraffinic(sp?) based oils to begin with should not partake in technical discussions on auto enthusiasts board to get into oil/lubricant discussion, IMHO.
Q.
LOL
read post #5 here:
http://forums.maxima.org/fluids-lubricants/260244-pennzoil-contains-paraffin-hence-not-used.html
Don't worry, just because there are lots of armchair scientists and "self-proclaimed" oil engineers on other automobile discussion boards doesn't necessary means that they are right, even from a pure statistical standpoint.
Reality-check: I was a provincially-certified mech before and my postings are pretty much based on straight facts, records kept and experiences, and I still selectively filters some of the poster's info on this board (most BITOG posters are my cup of tea and their information proved to be invaluable to my learning to all things related to lubrication)for all the unsubstantiated claims and hearsays (hearsays is what typical NAmericans strive on these days, and then comes along with something called the "internet")
Those who don't even have a basic idea between nathphalitic(sp?) and paraffinic(sp?) based oils to begin with should not partake in technical discussions on auto enthusiasts board to get into oil/lubricant discussion, IMHO.
Q.
Last edited:
Yes... if you don't drain it out at a proper interval!
Originally Posted By: jhenle
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
(for those of us lucky enough to have a winter)
You're joking, right? Please tell me you're joking.
It's supposed to snow over here in a few days.
Yes I josh sitting in my 55deg log cabin with the heat not working and no wood pile (yet). Getting too old to enjoy snowblowing ;(
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
(for those of us lucky enough to have a winter)
You're joking, right? Please tell me you're joking.
It's supposed to snow over here in a few days.
Yes I josh sitting in my 55deg log cabin with the heat not working and no wood pile (yet). Getting too old to enjoy snowblowing ;(
I don't doubt many people saw this for a few reasons:
1. Pennzoil was the most used oil. More use meansd more chances of issues.
2. Many people had poor maintenance habits and if an issue arose it was the oils fault.
3. Information about vehicle issues does not spread like it does now. So a sludge motor or issue with engine design would have gone unknown.
1. Pennzoil was the most used oil. More use meansd more chances of issues.
2. Many people had poor maintenance habits and if an issue arose it was the oils fault.
3. Information about vehicle issues does not spread like it does now. So a sludge motor or issue with engine design would have gone unknown.
Originally Posted By: Quest
Those who don't even have a basic idea between nathphalitic(sp?) and paraffinic(sp?) based oils to begin with should not partake in technical discussions on auto enthusiasts board to get into oil/lubricant discussion, IMHO.
Q.
+1 Some words spell check isn't much help.
Those who don't even have a basic idea between nathphalitic(sp?) and paraffinic(sp?) based oils to begin with should not partake in technical discussions on auto enthusiasts board to get into oil/lubricant discussion, IMHO.
Q.
+1 Some words spell check isn't much help.
Originally Posted By: ZZman
I don't doubt many people saw this for a few reasons:
1. Pennzoil was the most used oil. More use meansd more chances of issues.
2. Many people had poor maintenance habits and if an issue arose it was the oils fault.
3. Information about vehicle issues does not spread like it does now. So a sludge motor or issue with engine design would have gone unknown.
well said!
I don't doubt many people saw this for a few reasons:
1. Pennzoil was the most used oil. More use meansd more chances of issues.
2. Many people had poor maintenance habits and if an issue arose it was the oils fault.
3. Information about vehicle issues does not spread like it does now. So a sludge motor or issue with engine design would have gone unknown.
well said!
Originally Posted By: webfors
I have learned one thing about the internet. If you have an answer already in your mind and you want validation for it, simply google it and you'll find your validation, valid or not. It's the nature of the beast.
The internet provided a forum to the highly uninformed.
hey, don't blame the interwebs-they're just as useful for debunking myths as perpetuating them. Remember, myths like this certainly pre-date the internets. It just depends on what sort of information you choose to believe...
Funny thing is, I just read this nugget on the Genesis Coupe forum, in it's typical form "I know this guy, who knows this guy--he tore down a bunch of engines which used nothing but PZ, FULL OF WAX!". Logical fallacies really know no bounds.
I have learned one thing about the internet. If you have an answer already in your mind and you want validation for it, simply google it and you'll find your validation, valid or not. It's the nature of the beast.
The internet provided a forum to the highly uninformed.
hey, don't blame the interwebs-they're just as useful for debunking myths as perpetuating them. Remember, myths like this certainly pre-date the internets. It just depends on what sort of information you choose to believe...
Funny thing is, I just read this nugget on the Genesis Coupe forum, in it's typical form "I know this guy, who knows this guy--he tore down a bunch of engines which used nothing but PZ, FULL OF WAX!". Logical fallacies really know no bounds.
I'll throw some fuel on the fire....
In the 1960's/1970's, the large-spread multi-visc oils, the 10W-40's and 10W-50's DID sludge up engines fairly often. The very poor quality VII's used in the oil back then broke down and did bake into sludge.
But that was group I dino, and very primitive VII's. We don't use those anymore, so no, modern oils don't cause sludge.
In the 1960's/1970's, the large-spread multi-visc oils, the 10W-40's and 10W-50's DID sludge up engines fairly often. The very poor quality VII's used in the oil back then broke down and did bake into sludge.
But that was group I dino, and very primitive VII's. We don't use those anymore, so no, modern oils don't cause sludge.
Being young and macho in the 70's and working for Ashland Chemical, I ran Valvoline 10-W-40 in my Valiant 318 V-8. When I took the valve lifters apart to clean them, I found them clean, but worn.
Later I did end up with a mess of sludge in my 81 Phoenix V-6 after switching from Pennzoil 10W-30 to Quaker State 10W-30. I think I was doing 6 month intervals in both cars and mostly short trips.
Later I did end up with a mess of sludge in my 81 Phoenix V-6 after switching from Pennzoil 10W-30 to Quaker State 10W-30. I think I was doing 6 month intervals in both cars and mostly short trips.
I plucked this from an old post of mine, when we were discussing this previously. Its a collection of "Pennzoil sludge" quotes from 2 or 3 other forums: Copied and pasted for your pleasure!
QUOTE: yes penzoil sucks major! my buddy with a 3.1 when we took it apart to rebuild it the person before him used penzoil and there was like little chuncks of oil in the gaps of the heads.... it looked horrible....
QUOTE: Pennzoil is a parafin based oil, or wax basically. That stuff is totally ghey. My uncle bought a brand new car, changed oil with pennzoil every 2500 miles, and by the time it hit 70k, it was burning more oil than gas. Not to mention when my dad bought the car as a beater, he switched it to normal conventional, and within 6 months, rod bearings were going out. Bought drive like they are 80, so abuse was not to blame.; Coincedence, I don't know, but I learned to stay way far away!
QUOTE: it has wax or somthing in it im not sure but them and pennzoil were bad for vehicles because of that but i think that has changed now
QUOTE: I always used to get Pennzoil for my first couple of oil changes, but then I was told by a Jiffy Lube techie that Pennz gums up your engine really badly
QUOTE: its pensoil (not even worth spelling correctly) and
queerstate that i had always heard and seen was the worst, you can tell when either one of those was used because of all the engine sludge and ----.
QUOTE: looks typical of high milage engines that i've torn down that ran on parfin based oils (quaker state, penzoil)
QUOTE: If you're gonna switch to conventional for your engines sake dont use penzoil. its ----.
QUOTE: cause Pennzoil and Quaker State turn to black mashed potatoes when exposed to heat for any long time. I wont use either even in a lawnmower, but its ok for things like door hinges. However, it is fine to use for oiling down gravel driveways
QUOTE: the engines that people used pensoil in had a lot of sludge built up in them from the high concentration of parifin wax.
QUOTE: From reading around on websites about oil (yes I was bored lol).... I have heard penzoil is parafin based and can cause build up.
QUOTE: i was always told by the old timers that pensoil will sludge up your engine like concrete, and now that is whi i'll never use it. its BAD!!
QUOTE: I've also heard that Pennzoil (and Quaker State) use a paraffin base, and can 'sludge up' your engine.
QUOTE: I haven't toorn down a lot of engines but I can say in the early years I used only Penzoil on one. When I found all the sludge and ---- inside the valve cover, I switched to Castrol and sometimes Valvoline.
QUOTE: I may be young but im not stupid. Both me and my dad have used pennzoil in the past in our racecars (4 cyl. cars), and both of us ended up with oil that looked like vomit when we changed it
QUOTE: penzoil used to be good until quaker state bought the company about 5 years ago and ruined it, its quaker state that is garbage, the old penzoil formula is what they use in quaker state oil now, which is why it says New and Improved
QUOTE: Anyway, after chatting about the condition of the car we stopped at the auto parts store to get some fresh oil. He said Kendall is the best on the market and Quaker state should be illegal! ...And that Quaker State turned to molases at average temps.
QUOTE: Thats a typical Quaker State OR Penzoil engine. (comes from same place) It crudes up like that because of the high parafin content.
QUOTE: Wait till you see inside an uncared for V-6 that used Pennzoil : barf :
QUOTE: I opened up a 2.8 once that obviously has been very poorly maintained and worse yet, they used Pennzoil which "coats" & cakes on to things. The inside in the valvetrain area had a super thick goo like substance that covered EVERYTHING to the point you couldnt even see the pushrods. After hours of scraping the stuff out, you would come to a hard brittle version of it that needed to be chiseled out !!??? It was like they never changed oil since it was born & it burnt itself to everything. After hours in a parts washer, thay made it to the sand-blaster to get the black burn residue off.
QUOTE: Apprently Penzoil uses Paraffin in thier oils still; Which would cause the nasty build up your talkin about..
QUOTE: The oil wars come every few months. Ive known people that used Pennzoil and Quaker State that changed oil EVERY 3000 miles that were totally sludged up.
QUOTE: yes penzoil sucks major! my buddy with a 3.1 when we took it apart to rebuild it the person before him used penzoil and there was like little chuncks of oil in the gaps of the heads.... it looked horrible....
QUOTE: Pennzoil is a parafin based oil, or wax basically. That stuff is totally ghey. My uncle bought a brand new car, changed oil with pennzoil every 2500 miles, and by the time it hit 70k, it was burning more oil than gas. Not to mention when my dad bought the car as a beater, he switched it to normal conventional, and within 6 months, rod bearings were going out. Bought drive like they are 80, so abuse was not to blame.; Coincedence, I don't know, but I learned to stay way far away!
QUOTE: it has wax or somthing in it im not sure but them and pennzoil were bad for vehicles because of that but i think that has changed now
QUOTE: I always used to get Pennzoil for my first couple of oil changes, but then I was told by a Jiffy Lube techie that Pennz gums up your engine really badly
QUOTE: its pensoil (not even worth spelling correctly) and
queerstate that i had always heard and seen was the worst, you can tell when either one of those was used because of all the engine sludge and ----.
QUOTE: looks typical of high milage engines that i've torn down that ran on parfin based oils (quaker state, penzoil)
QUOTE: If you're gonna switch to conventional for your engines sake dont use penzoil. its ----.
QUOTE: cause Pennzoil and Quaker State turn to black mashed potatoes when exposed to heat for any long time. I wont use either even in a lawnmower, but its ok for things like door hinges. However, it is fine to use for oiling down gravel driveways
QUOTE: the engines that people used pensoil in had a lot of sludge built up in them from the high concentration of parifin wax.
QUOTE: From reading around on websites about oil (yes I was bored lol).... I have heard penzoil is parafin based and can cause build up.
QUOTE: i was always told by the old timers that pensoil will sludge up your engine like concrete, and now that is whi i'll never use it. its BAD!!
QUOTE: I've also heard that Pennzoil (and Quaker State) use a paraffin base, and can 'sludge up' your engine.
QUOTE: I haven't toorn down a lot of engines but I can say in the early years I used only Penzoil on one. When I found all the sludge and ---- inside the valve cover, I switched to Castrol and sometimes Valvoline.
QUOTE: I may be young but im not stupid. Both me and my dad have used pennzoil in the past in our racecars (4 cyl. cars), and both of us ended up with oil that looked like vomit when we changed it
QUOTE: penzoil used to be good until quaker state bought the company about 5 years ago and ruined it, its quaker state that is garbage, the old penzoil formula is what they use in quaker state oil now, which is why it says New and Improved
QUOTE: Anyway, after chatting about the condition of the car we stopped at the auto parts store to get some fresh oil. He said Kendall is the best on the market and Quaker state should be illegal! ...And that Quaker State turned to molases at average temps.
QUOTE: Thats a typical Quaker State OR Penzoil engine. (comes from same place) It crudes up like that because of the high parafin content.
QUOTE: Wait till you see inside an uncared for V-6 that used Pennzoil : barf :
QUOTE: I opened up a 2.8 once that obviously has been very poorly maintained and worse yet, they used Pennzoil which "coats" & cakes on to things. The inside in the valvetrain area had a super thick goo like substance that covered EVERYTHING to the point you couldnt even see the pushrods. After hours of scraping the stuff out, you would come to a hard brittle version of it that needed to be chiseled out !!??? It was like they never changed oil since it was born & it burnt itself to everything. After hours in a parts washer, thay made it to the sand-blaster to get the black burn residue off.
QUOTE: Apprently Penzoil uses Paraffin in thier oils still; Which would cause the nasty build up your talkin about..
QUOTE: The oil wars come every few months. Ive known people that used Pennzoil and Quaker State that changed oil EVERY 3000 miles that were totally sludged up.
Originally Posted By: webfors
someone please lock this thread before we get another kitty pic!!!
I have learned one thing about the internet. If you have an answer already in your mind and you want validation for it, simply google it and you'll find your validation, valid or not. It's the nature of the beast.
The internet provided a forum to the highly uninformed.
I blame it on the stricter DUI laws. Too many people are now surfing the web that used to sit around in bars expounding on stuff they knew nothing about.
someone please lock this thread before we get another kitty pic!!!
I have learned one thing about the internet. If you have an answer already in your mind and you want validation for it, simply google it and you'll find your validation, valid or not. It's the nature of the beast.
The internet provided a forum to the highly uninformed.
I blame it on the stricter DUI laws. Too many people are now surfing the web that used to sit around in bars expounding on stuff they knew nothing about.
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Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: slinky
Where did all this Pennzoil sludge stuff come from? I've heard it in other forums. I had someone tell me I was an idiot for using PP in my truck and anyone with mechanical experience would never use Pennzoil.
Probably a few idiots/morons (take your pick) got together that had sludge problems from neglecting their cars. Just so happens they just happened to be using the #1 selling engine oil in the world at the time. Tough being #1. Rumors spread fast, and the Internet helps spread them even faster. JMO
That's about it. QS has the same reputation. Cars sludged or didn't ..they were using (probably) PZ or QS ..therefore ..PZ or QS created sludge.
QED for the owner of the sludged engine.
Thank goodness VW/AUDI/SAAB/ETC didn't spec PZ around 2000 or so.
Originally Posted By: slinky
Where did all this Pennzoil sludge stuff come from? I've heard it in other forums. I had someone tell me I was an idiot for using PP in my truck and anyone with mechanical experience would never use Pennzoil.
Probably a few idiots/morons (take your pick) got together that had sludge problems from neglecting their cars. Just so happens they just happened to be using the #1 selling engine oil in the world at the time. Tough being #1. Rumors spread fast, and the Internet helps spread them even faster. JMO
That's about it. QS has the same reputation. Cars sludged or didn't ..they were using (probably) PZ or QS ..therefore ..PZ or QS created sludge.
QED for the owner of the sludged engine.
Thank goodness VW/AUDI/SAAB/ETC didn't spec PZ around 2000 or so.
Always remember just because someone SAYS they saw it firsthand means nothing. NOTHING!!!
People swear they have been abducted by aliens too guys. Don't believe everything you hear. I have heard the pennzoil/QS urban legend many times by people who 'claim' to have seen it first hand. Not a single one of these people are what I would consider intelligent.
Grain of salt my friend. The vast majority of people will just repeat what they have heard and after so many times repeating the [censored] they begin to believe it is real.
People swear they have been abducted by aliens too guys. Don't believe everything you hear. I have heard the pennzoil/QS urban legend many times by people who 'claim' to have seen it first hand. Not a single one of these people are what I would consider intelligent.
Grain of salt my friend. The vast majority of people will just repeat what they have heard and after so many times repeating the [censored] they begin to believe it is real.
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