Do you add MMO to your gas or the oil ?

[285south]

Originally Posted By: BHopkins
I've never used MMO, and honestly don't understand the fascination that [bold]FEW[/bold] others have with it.

To me, it's debatable how much good MMO ever did, but with the quality of fuels and motor oils that are available today, it's hard for me to understand why anyone would add a "mystery" mix to a carefully engineered motor oil. Go figure.


Same here. Just Chevron Techron once a year.

 

[Bror Jace]

MMO is NOT silly snake oil only used by rubes that don't know any better.

I use MMO in my fuel as one of my UCLs (upper cylinder lubes). I use a lot of UCLs when engines are new, trying to make for a more gradual break-in process, hoping for a tighter engine with greater compression and lower oil consumption. I can't speak to the compression, but oil consumption in all my engines (automotive as well as OPE) is notoriously low ... even nonexistent.

Gasoline, especially blended with ethanol, has poor lubricity. Adding a UCL can reduce cylinder/piston ring wear, intake vale seat wear (on non-direct injected engines), lube the fuel pump and injectors. It reduces fuel consumption by a small percentage and reduces oil consumption by reducing/replacing the sump oil that gets drawn up out of the sump, past the rings, and burned in the combustion chambers.

I have also used it once in a while in the oil as a very mild cleaner ... adding it a few hundred miles before I drain the sump. However, due to careful maintenance with high quality lubricants, I can't say I have much need for sump cleaners. If I bought something used with a questionable maintenance history, I might reconsider.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Bror Jace
MMO is NOT silly snake oil only used by rubes that don't know any better.

I use MMO in my fuel as one of my UCLs (upper cylinder lubes). I use a lot of UCLs when engines are new, trying to make for a more gradual break-in process, hoping for a tighter engine with greater compression and lower oil consumption. I can't speak to the compression, but oil consumption in all my engines (automotive as well as OPE) is notoriously low ... even nonexistent.

Gasoline, especially blended with ethanol, has poor lubricity. Adding a UCL can reduce cylinder/piston ring wear, intake vale seat wear (on non-direct injected engines), lube the fuel pump and injectors. It reduces fuel consumption by a small percentage and reduces oil consumption by reducing/replacing the sump oil that gets drawn up out of the sump, past the rings, and burned in the combustion chambers.

I have also used it once in a while in the oil as a very mild cleaner ... adding it a few hundred miles before I drain the sump. However, due to careful maintenance with high quality lubricants, I can't say I have much need for sump cleaners. If I bought something used with a questionable maintenance history, I might reconsider.


All of which means nothing, right? I mean, I've never used MMO or any "UCL" or any other additive (except Techron once in my BMW), and I don't have dead fuel pumps or excessive oil consumption. In fact, my 1NZ-FE uses about 1/2 quart every 6000 miles and that's on 0W-20 in the summer. I didn't use any additives when I bought the cars and I ran both Toyotas out to the scheduled OCI on the factory fill. If there is something in my "upper cylinder" or my fuel pump or my injectors that needs lubing, I sure don't know what it is. Lack of harm doesn't equate to a benefit, I may think it is a good idea to add a stick of butter to my fuel tank every 6 months and I may have been doing that for 20 years with no problem. But unless I have something to compare it against I have no clue whether it helped or harmed.

And you say its a very mild cleaner - how do you know that? You think it is, but you don't know if in fact it does anything at all, do you?

Oh, and all I've ever used is E10. We live in a non-attainment area and it's all that's been available for many years. I'm not sure what fuel "lubricity" really is to be honest. Why does it need to be lubricious?

Please don't take this as a rant against MMO. It's just that all the stuff you say in your post means nothing to me or anyone else here about the effectiveness of the product - which is typical, because determining real effectiveness would be a very difficult task.

 

[CourierDriver]

I forgot about my old 2002, Dodge e350 van, aka---lead sled.

I put MMO in it to keep the fuel pump quiet and it does stop that nosie , but then again I use 2cycle oil with tc3 in it some and that also works well. It takes me about 3 months to run through 16 gallons of gas now, the Dodge sits mostly, been 6 months since I changed the oil, but have not been 15oo miles yet. Its my work ride to the dump or the next time its my camper and so on..I think everyone needs a junky ride for stuff..lol

 

[edhackett]

Originally Posted By: JR
FAA approved.



No, it is not.

Ed

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: edhackett
Originally Posted By: JR
FAA approved.

No, it is not.

Ed


I know, that's an old one isn't it?

Even if it were "FAA Approved" that means nothing as to its efficacy.

 

[BTW]

Originally Posted By: Bror Jace
MMO is NOT silly snake oil only used by rubes that don't know any better.

I use MMO in my fuel as one of my UCLs (upper cylinder lubes). I use a lot of UCLs when engines are new, trying to make for a more gradual break-in process, hoping for a tighter engine with greater compression and lower oil consumption. I can't speak to the compression, but oil consumption in all my engines (automotive as well as OPE) is notoriously low ... even nonexistent.

Gasoline, especially blended with ethanol, has poor lubricity. Adding a UCL can reduce cylinder/piston ring wear, intake vale seat wear (on non-direct injected engines), lube the fuel pump and injectors. It reduces fuel consumption by a small percentage and reduces oil consumption by reducing/replacing the sump oil that gets drawn up out of the sump, past the rings, and burned in the combustion chambers.

I have also used it once in a while in the oil as a very mild cleaner ... adding it a few hundred miles before I drain the sump. However, due to careful maintenance with high quality lubricants, I can't say I have much need for sump cleaners. If I bought something used with a questionable maintenance history, I might reconsider.


So you "think" it works, it makes you feel good, but there is no evidence...

My '85 Corolla had 270k miles on it before I sold it (still running). Never had any problems, only clutch, suspension, and regular tune ups over the years. I never used MMO, Seafoam, etc...

Same with my father's 1984 Jetta, 185k when it was sold still running...

Or any car/motorcycle I've owned or my family has owned. No snake oil and never an oil/fuel related issues. Hmmm...

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Please don't take this as a rant against MMO. It's just that all the stuff you say in your post means nothing to me or anyone else here about the effectiveness of the product - which is typical, because determining real effectiveness would be a very difficult task.


Right, the main problem here is that in order to apply the scientific method, you need to have repeated, reproducible results. One off stories mean nothing. You need controlled studies where you have several engines and the exact same thing happens with one set with MMO and the other without and then you compare it. Those studies don't really seem to exist. Maybe they existed in the 30's or 40's, but maybe the whole thing doesn't apply with modern engines and modern lubricants/fuels. Why experiment on an expensive piece of machinery when the data isn't there?

It's like those charms that keep sharks away. Works great. However I don't have one and have never been attacked by a shark.

 

[ryanschillinger]

I get consistently better mpg with mmo than without. 3-4 oz per 10 gallons is good. I log mpg every fill up. It's cheap and it isn't going to hurt anything. Try it. If you don't see any improvement or think it was worth the $5 for the quart, then you're out $5. Don't buy it again. You can use it in gas and oil. I ran a quart in the oil of my old Nissan Frontier last 1000 miles before an oil change. It didn't cause any problems. Might have cleaned more than plain oil. Not sure how I would have measured that, but it ran fine before and after.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: ryanschillinger
I get consistently better mpg with mmo than without. 3-4 oz per 10 gallons is good. I log mpg every fill up. It's cheap and it isn't going to hurt anything. Try it. If you don't see any improvement or think it was worth the $5 for the quart, then you're out $5. Don't buy it again. You can use it in gas and oil. I ran a quart in the oil of my old Nissan Frontier last 1000 miles before an oil change. It didn't cause any problems. Might have cleaned more than plain oil. Not sure how I would have measured that, but it ran fine before and after.


I don't run experiments on expensive machinery without proof that it won't hurt anything.

You measure it by tearing down the engine/car parts and examining them. Probably makes more sense if you had several to do that with as one or two could just be a statistical anomaly. You need a large enough sample size in order for it to be a valid study.

As for improved mpg, many things can affect it, for efficiency, you normally correct to standard temperature and pressure. Things are better or worse outside that band. There's also summer/winter gas. Also for studies to be valid, they're usually blind studies. You know you're using MMO so maybe you're just not driving as fast or being more careful so you can prove to yourself that MMO is working. You need to factor in your own bias.

 

[jk_636]

I add MMO to my fuel and oil.

It quiets down ticking lifters and passively cleans my engine while the MMO in the fuel lubricates the fuel pump and keeps injectors clean. I have even added it to PS pumps that groaned excessively and it made them instantly more quiet. Always have used if, always will. I highly recommend it to everyone I know. A lot of old school mechanics swear by it and I have seen a lot of motor problems fixed or at least temporarily repaired by doing nothing then adding MMO to it.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: jk_636
I add MMO to my fuel and oil.

It quiets down ticking lifters and passively cleans my engine while the MMO in the fuel lubricates the fuel pump and keeps injectors clean. I have even added it to PS pumps that groaned excessively and it made them instantly more quiet. Always have used if, always will. I highly recommend it to everyone I know. A lot of old school mechanics swear by it and I have seen a lot of motor problems fixed or at least temporarily repaired by doing nothing then adding MMO to it.


You add MMO to your fuel and oil??? You, Mr. what is it - 5000 mile OCI on Royal Purple? Either you think that RP is a crummy oil that needs an additive, or you think that it is missing something from the formulation? Which is it? And please don't tell me that you have ticking lifters...

And where are people getting this bad fuel that clogs injectors? I had the injectors out of both my Sienna and the Honda for flow testing not too long ago. I thought that with the miles on those cars I should have them checked. They were fine, no issues with flow or pattern. What the heck kind of fuel are you buying that you need MMO to keep yours clean?

You have seen "a lot" of problems fixed with MMO. Sure you have.

 

[MinamiKotaro]

I like MMO in fuel for taking the edge off the fuel pump whine in the Bug. I typically run a pint through the gas tank of every vehicle when I change its oil to maybe give it a little cleaning.

 

[Bror Jace]

kschachn, this argument/debate is a lot like an argument between guys talking about oil change intervals (OCIs) ... one guy says 3,000, the other says 5,000. The guy with the longer OCI can swear about the quarter million mile cars he's retired with no problems. The shorter OCI guy knows his engines are getting better/fresher lubricants and are being protected better even though he can't quantify the results and any benefits.

I have seen reduced fuel (and oil) consumption with MMO in my engines over the decades and have read credible descriptions and testimonies about the other benefits. I'll continue to use MMO and other UCLs on an occasional basis.

Wolf359 is also correct ... scientific tests are very difficult and expensive because you need to run a population of motors to show significant differences between maintenance regimens.

In short, I can't prove that UCLs do all the things they describe ... and you can't prove they don't do any (or only some).

Likewise, you can't prove that UCLs are a silly waste of money, just that in your experience, you haven't found them necessary.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: Bror Jace
In short, I can't prove that UCLs do all the things they describe ... and you can't prove they don't do any (or only some).

Likewise, you can't prove that UCLs are a silly waste of money, just that in your experience, you haven't found them necessary.


I don't think you understand the meaning about burden of proof. You don't need to prove a negative, it's up to the person making the claim to provide the proof. So if you can't prove it, it's not real.

 

[Jetronic]

I've never ever seen a million dollars all together... therefor it doesn't exist...

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: Jetronic
I've never ever seen a million dollars all together... therefor it doesn't exist...


It's how the courts work, burden of proof is on the one making the claim. You may not believe that 1 million exists, but someone can show it to you and that will make the claim valid that it does exist. You can't say the same for people making other claims where there's no proof.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Jetronic
I've never ever seen a million dollars all together... therefor it doesn't exist...


I've never seen you either so maybe...

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Bror Jace
kschachn, this argument/debate is a lot like an argument between guys talking about oil change intervals (OCIs) ... one guy says 3,000, the other says 5,000. The guy with the longer OCI can swear about the quarter million mile cars he's retired with no problems. The shorter OCI guy knows his engines are getting better/fresher lubricants and are being protected better even though he can't quantify the results and any benefits.


Not really. Doug Hillary ran 90,000Km OCI's on Delvac 1 in a fleet environment with random tear downs to qualify how the lubricant held up. And this was over 1.2 million Kilometres.

He's posted pictures on here of one of those tear-downs. Saying that a shorter interval would have been "better" "just because" is personal hang-up, just like the attachment to MMO. There's no proof of benefit, but those who use it swear it does all these miraculous things that those who don't are supposedly succumbing to, yet actually aren't.

 

[HerrStig]

I wonder how the 99 Camry in my fleet went 335,000 miles without the stuff, and is still in use.