Did the shop perform the work I paid for? Brake Flush and Oil Change with photos.

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

I'm just asking for even one well documented real life example of this actually happening because I have never seen it. It might seem like common sense, but it's just a waste of time doing it if it doesn't happen routinely in real life situations.

What happens to most of us is that nothing breaks until out of warranty! ugh

 

[explorer2030]

Doesn't really seem like a waste of time to keep maintenance records. Not only for warranty reasons but also for helping a future sale.

I have traded in two vehicles both with meticulous complete maintenance logs, and the dealership didn't even want them and told me to keep them. It could help with a private sale, but I think the average car buyer doesn't care much about a maintenance log. Almost none of the used vehicles I have looked over the years had much of a maintenance log, maybe a few receipts at best but very incomplete.

 

[explorer2030]

The Moss-Magnuson Act allows dealers to deny such claims. We even had a case here where a warranty company denied an engine repair because the owner did not rotate their tires, insane, that is an extreme example though. Never buy a 3rd party warranty.

A 3rd party warranty company is a completely different case because they are well known to look for any way to deny coverage. I'd like to see documented examples of factory warranty coverage being denied by a dealership due to not producing maintenance records.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

I have traded in two vehicles both with meticulous complete maintenance logs, and the dealership didn't even want them and told me to keep them. It could help with a private sale, but I think the average car buyer doesn't care much about a maintenance log. Almost none of the used vehicles I have looked over the years had much of a maintenance log, maybe a few receipts at best but very incomplete.

Well on one hand you are asking for definitive proof on your question, but providing an anecdote for another situation.

Records will certainly matter depending on the buyer, and what kind of vehicle it is. As an extreme example, try to sell a Ferrari without documented maintenance and you won't have a good time. In any case it seems like good practice (and common sense) to keep good records.

 

[Owen Lucas]

Records will certainly matter depending on the buyer, and what kind of vehicle it is. As an extreme example, try to sell a Ferrari without documented maintenance and you won't have a good time. In any case it seems like good practice (and common sense) to keep good records.

Indeed, helpful if a vehicle is totaled as well. Proof of maintenance can increase the value slightly, but still better than nothing. A new alternator, rotors, engine work etc, will add value.

What happens to most of us is that nothing breaks until out of warranty! ugh

Makes me wonder if this is by design?

 

[explorer2030]

Hyundai dealer wouldn't replace engine without maintenance records.

https://nj.com/news/2022/09/do-you-save-your-oil-change-receipts-a-hyundai-owner-didnt-and-now-shes-fighting-over-a-warranty.html The picture of sludge she talks about makes me wonder. The car is in her driveway, why not take it to someone and have the valve cover removed and take a look?

bobistheoilguy.com

The guy in post #14 claims Hyundai did replace his engine without requiring receipts.

Warranty issues from lost oil receipts

Hey hey all! Grateful for all the wisdom here. Needing some right now. I have an extended warranty problem. I mix shop oil changes and do my own, usually all from a time capacity perspective. Two weeks ago my #4 cylinder blew and the warranty company is asking for receipts from when I purchased...

bobistheoilguy.com

This is for a 3rd party extended warranty and is expected. I am only concerned with factory warranty coverage being denied by a dealership.

Warranty claim with oil inspection performed

Has anyone on this website had this done to them personally or actually know someone that has filed a warranty claim and had an oil analysis done on their vehicle? I am not talking friend of a friend or I heard of this guy that had his warranty claim denied. But someone you actually know that...

bobistheoilguy.com

Post #7 and #8 appear to be the closest actual example, but in each case the wrong weight oil was verified. Not sure why someone would expect to collect warranty coverage for installing an out of spec oil. I am mostly concerned about cases where there was a material or functional defect in the vehicle that was not covered but also not caused by negligence or misuse.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

The guy in post #14 claims Hyundai did replace his engine without requiring receipts.

This is for a 3rd party extended warranty and is expected. I am only concerned with factory warranty coverage being denied by a dealership.

Post #7 and #8 appear to be the closest actual example, but in each case the wrong weight oil was verified. Not sure why someone would expect to collect warranty coverage for installing an out of spec oil. I am mostly concerned about cases where there was a material or functional defect in the vehicle that was not covered but also not caused by negligence or misuse.

Are you new here? lol

Additionally, How is the dealer/manufacturer going to know you used the right oil without records?

 

[explorer2030]

Are you new here? lol

Additionally, How is the dealer/manufacturer going to know you used the right oil without records?

They can take a sample and do an oil analysis if necessary.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

They can take a sample and do an oil analysis if necessary.

That could tell them what grade oil is in the car currently, but not what was used in the car previously.

 

[explorer2030]

That could tell them what grade oil is in the car currently, but not what was used in the car previously.

The record isn't necessarily going to prove that either since someone could have purchased a jug of the correct weight oil, put it on their shelf, and then accidentally grabbed a jug of different weight oil when they filled the sump. Receipt would show its correct, but what goes into the engine is not. I think the best they could do is to take a sample at the time the vehicle comes in for the repair.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

T

The record isn't necessarily going to prove that either since someone could have purchased a jug of the correct oil, put it on their shelf, and then accidentally grabbed a different jug when they filled the sump. Receipt would show its correct, but what goes into the engine is not. I think the best they could do is to take a sample at the time the vehicle comes in for the repair.

You could theoretically say that any receipt could be fake, fudged, or simply inadvertently incorrect, even receipts from professional establishments. Almost on a weekly basis we have someone posting here that the dealer messed up an invoice and potentially billed the wrong oil. That's a weak argument.

 

[explorer2030]

You could theoretically say that any receipt could be fake, fudged, or simply inadvertently incorrect, even receipts from professional establishments. That's a weak argument.

That is actually true though...someone could easily fake the receipts. It would be as easy as scanning in one receipt, using an editing software to change the dates, and then reprinting a whole set of sequentially dated receipts.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

That is actually true though...someone could easily fake the receipts. It would be as easy as scanning in the receipt, using an editing software to change the dates, and then reprinting the receipts.

So that's the argument now?

- Engine suffers oil related failure
- You provide all necessary documentation that service was performed on time, and with correct fluids
- Dealer says nope sorry warranty denied because these receipts could be fake

lmao

 

[John105]

Am I misreading the invoice, it looked like the brake fluid was qty 1 and $47? From doing my BMW the way the OP expects, it uses qty 3 but very little of the third. And even BMW DOT 4 is probably $6.50 now (used to be under $5–and that’s their OE branded). I just don’t want think a Honda dealer even tells its techs to do all 4 at the bleeders. Best thing to do is to ask. At least of the SA lied, if they’re human, they know they were busted.

 

[explorer2030]

So that's the argument now?

- Engine suffers oil related failure
- You provide all necessary documentation that service was performed on time, and with correct fluids
- Dealer says nope sorry warranty denied because these receipts could be fake

lmao

It's the reason why most dealers aren't going to bother wasting time asking for a complete log of receipts, and will just do the warranty repairs. They know that the receipts are not proof that the correct oil actually made it into the vehicle, nor are they even necessarily valid because anyone with a quality printer and editing software can easily forge them.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

It's the reason why most dealers aren't going to bother wasting time asking for a complete log of receipts, and will just do the warranty repairs. They know that the receipts are not proof that the correct oil actually made it into the vehicle, nor are they even necessarily valid because anyone with a quality printer and editing software can easily forge them.

Oh I see. Well forgive me for not believing a manufacturer is going to approve a 10-25k repair without any maintenance receipts because there is potential for someone to fake them. Even if that was a legitimate concern, the manufacturer they could easily contact the auto shop/Jiffy Lube/auto parts store etc to verify the receipts are legit.

 

[explorer2030]

Oh I see. Well forgive me for not believing a manufacturer is going to approve a 10-25k repair without any maintenance receipts because there is potential for someone to fake them. Even if that was a legitimate concern, the manufacturer they could easily contact the auto shop/Jiffy Lube/Auto parts store etc to verify the receipt is legit.

Most businesses are only keeping copies of receipts for up to 18 months, and any transaction records for 3 years to comply to a potential IRS audit. A short enough time that it wouldn't prevent many people from getting away with faking the receipts. Further it would likely not be deemed worthwhile to pursue it this far because it will require a research fee and significant time for each business to produce this information.

My point is that dealers/manufacturers ARE approving expensive warranty repairs without receipts, and your own example showed that. You can speculate on why that is, but the reality is that the log of receipts is pointless and most dealers/manufactures know this. They simply inspect the condition of the vehicle and the oil at the time of the repair, and will proceed unless that leads to finding a root cause of egrigious negligence or misuse.

How Long Should a Business Keep Credit Card Receipts?

Customers have as long as 18 months to dispute charges on their credit card bill. If you do not keep the credit card receipts from sales transactions, your business could be forced to return the money for the purchase to the customer's credit card company. If the credit card company sides with...

smallbusiness.chron.com

 

[nthach]

Based on the word Honda, there's a very good chance work not performed. My buddy got into such an argument with the dealer, but rather than worry about it, he bought a new Odyssey. People cope with feeling ripped off in different ways

Well, Honda salesmen roam the service drive like vultures.

 

[Owen Lucas]

It's the reason why most dealers aren't going to bother wasting time asking for a complete log of receipts, and will just do the warranty repairs. They know that the receipts are not proof that the correct oil actually made it into the vehicle, nor are they even necessarily valid because anyone with a quality printer and editing software can easily forge them.

Being in the industry, having written thousands of claims, it happens. You don’t have to take my word for it. Just ask your service writer next time you go in.

If you are going through the hassle of maintaining your car, keep the receipts. It’s good practice and cheap insurance.

 

[John105]

Most businesses are only keeping copies of receipts for up to 18 months, and any transaction records for 3 years to comply to a potential IRS audit. A short enough time that it wouldn't prevent many people from getting away with faking the receipts. Further it would likely not be deemed worthwhile to pursue it this far because it will require a research fee and significant time for each business to produce this information.

My point is that dealers/manufacturers ARE approving expensive warranty repairs without receipts, and your own example showed that. You can speculate on why that is, but the reality is that the log of receipts is pointless and most dealers/manufactures know this. They simply inspect the condition of the vehicle and the oil at the time of the repair, and will proceed unless that leads to finding a root cause of egrigious negligence or misuse.

How Long Should a Business Keep Credit Card Receipts?

Customers have as long as 18 months to dispute charges on their credit card bill. If you do not keep the credit card receipts from sales transactions, your business could be forced to return the money for the purchase to the customer's credit card company. If the credit card company sides with...

smallbusiness.chron.com

To your point FSA has always puzzled me. It’s like nobody knows about it. A mysterious $3050. I know several people who tell me they make up their own receipts and never had a problem. To me, it’s not sensible to commit fraud over $976. But to those folks it’s shooting fish in a barrel. Don’t get me wrong $976 is a lot to me, just I wouldn’t do that. I’m the moron buying $950 prescription sunglasses first week of Dec and telling my wife to do the same