DI Turbo oil priority? NOACK Volatility or TBN

[RichardSenn]

Originally Posted By: Phishin
Originally Posted By: wemay
This is my first DI turbo and I know the absolute cleanest oils right now are SOPUS.


Only Ultra has low Noack. Not only is low volatility important, but so is low ash. Thats why I'd go with M1 ESP.....It's got low, low Noack and ash.


Stupid question, in the PQIA link what designates Ash content, I don't see it listed? Also, does anyone know what the Noack is of Mobil 1 ESP, the PQIA link just has Mobil 1.

I've been reading entirely to much on oils for my 2.0T and probably way over thinking everything. I decided to go low Noack as well and have decided not to go the Rotella T6 route in 5w40 to combat fuel dilution but rather stick to 3K OCI's and use PU or Mobil 1 ESP in 5w30 with the OEM Hyundai oil filter.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX

It has been proven though that Oil Catch cans do nothing to help in reducing intake valve deposits.

LOW SAPS, LOW NOACK is your best bet. Just need to do a UOA at 3k miles to see how the engine likes it.
Jeff


Where did you get that source of "proven" info from?

I posit that if you want to minimize the role motor oil plays in intake tract deposits, it's not Noack you should be looking at but rather choose an oil with the lowest possible TEOST deposit level. An example of this would be Castrol Edge 5W-30 with a deposit of only 3 mg's. The limit for a GF-5 oil is 30 mg's.

I further posit that one main possible contributor to intake tract deposits in DI applications is the fuel itself. More gas does get by the rings vs port injection with many engine designs, carrying with it other by-products of combustion into the crankcase which in turn get drawn into the intake tract. In this hot but not hot enough to burn off environment, carbon will accumulate.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Proven info is found on the Web do a search especially in the VW GTI world. Catch cans have been proven ineffective. The NOACK of M1 ESP 5w30 is 5.6%.

Jeff

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Caterham may be correct in the fuel blow by with the high psi of the fuel delivery of DI motors.

Lubrizol report reflected specifically low saps reduced deposits over 40% on intake valves and over 150% on exhaust valves. That's worth trying low saps just for that.

ESP 5w30 looks good on VOA's and should be good for 3-5k miles. Definitely not an EDI oil in America. That wouldn't be why I'd buy it anyway.

Jeff

 

[RichardSenn]

In the Amsoil test link Mobil 1ESP didn't fair so well on the wear test and in a couple of other wear test I've seen online Mobil 1 doesn't fair so well. Does this seem to be of no concern to most? It was more than 3 times higher than PU.

Also, according to the Amsoil test if everyone is regarding it as accurate PU still had a lower NOACK than Mobil 1 ESP.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Honestly the Amsoil tests mean nothing to me. Most if not All of Amsoils tests are biased one way or another.

Personally I do not know what PU your talking about that has a lower NOACK of M1 ESP 5w30 5.6% not their Euro oil. That Im aware of.

Most wear "tests" are a joke and more of a marketing ploy IMO.

Jeff

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Proven info is found on the Web do a search especially in the VW GTI world. Catch cans have been proven ineffective. The NOACK of M1 ESP 5w30 is 5.6%.Jeff

Dismissing catch cans ineffective is very much missing the point as is harping on the significance of Noack.
Catch cans collect atomized oil that would other wise be drawn into the into tract.
At the track I've seen almost a litre of oil drained from a catch after a days session in some cars.
Vehicles driven conservatively on the street may not accumulate much oil at all in a catch can.

The other point to remember is that is an engine is doesn't consume much if any oil then oil is simply not not playing a significant role in intake tract deposits.

 

[RichardSenn]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Honestly the Amsoil tests mean nothing to me. Most if not All of Amsoils tests are biased one way or another.

Personally I do not know what PU your talking about that has a lower NOACK of M1 ESP 5w30 5.6% not their Euro oil. That Im aware of.

Most wear "tests" are a joke and more of a marketing ploy IMO.

Jeff


I figured the Amsoil test are biased for sure but figured they held some validity.

As far as PU NOACK I was just referring to the two links in this thread. The PQIA has PU NOACK at 6.6% and doesn't list Mobil 1 ESP. The Amsoil link tested PU NOACK at 7% and Mobil 1 ESP at 8.5%.

Where did you find the NOACK of Mobil 1 ESP at 5.6%, I don't see it on there product data sheet? I did find the Ash content on there so that helped me out. PU doesn't list Ash content on there product data sheet though for comparison.

 

[CATERHAM]

The only thing that's biased in the Amsoil 5W-30 comparison is the limited choice of synthetic oils they chose to compare themselves to. The results of the tests appear to be honest.

Of the oils tested the conclusion as to the best 5W-30 oil to use in a DI engine would not be Amsoil but rather Castrol Edge for is very low TEOST deposit score.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: RichardSenn
Where did you find the NOACK of Mobil 1 ESP at 5.6%,

It came from a Russian oil website where they perform VOAs of various oils. Not sure what lab they use and don't know how credible it is. Just another data point, I guess.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
The only thing that's biased in the Amsoil 5W-30 comparison is the limited choice of synthetic oils they chose to compare themselves to. The results of the tests appear to be honest.

Of the oils tested the conclusion as to the best 5W-30 oil to use in a DI engine would not be Amsoil but rather Castrol Edge for is very low TEOST deposit score.



CATERHAM what Castrol Edge are we talking about? The 504/507 the dealers use?

There have been many guys who have tracked their VW's with catch cans and the intake and exhaust valves still were gunked up. So not sure what to day on that one. Logic would tell you they would work but don't. Not in the case of VW's TSI 2.0T.

Jeff

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: RichardSenn
Where did you find the NOACK of Mobil 1 ESP at 5.6%,

It came from a Russian oil website where they perform VOAs of various oils. Not sure what lab they use and don't know how credible it is. Just another data point, I guess.


^^^^^^^^^ This and QP is right who knows how accurate it is.

Jeff

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
The only thing that's biased in the Amsoil 5W-30 comparison is the limited choice of synthetic oils they chose to compare themselves to. The results of the tests appear to be honest.

Of the oils tested the conclusion as to the best 5W-30 oil to use in a DI engine would not be Amsoil but rather Castrol Edge for is very low TEOST deposit score.



CATERHAM what Castrol Edge are we talking about? The 504/507 the dealers use?

There have been many guys who have tracked their VW's with catch cans and the intake and exhaust valves still were gunked up. So not sure what to day on that one. Logic would tell you they would work but don't. Not in the case of VW's TSI 2.0T.
Jeff

First, I never heard of exhaust valves getting gunked up since they usually run hot enough to burn off any deposits.
Secondly,if the intake valves are getting gunked up and no other parts of the intake tract, then it's worn valve seals that are usually the cause.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
The only thing that's biased in the Amsoil 5W-30 comparison is the limited choice of synthetic oils they chose to compare themselves to. The results of the tests appear to be honest.

Of the oils tested the conclusion as to the best 5W-30 oil to use in a DI engine would not be Amsoil but rather Castrol Edge for is very low TEOST deposit score.



CATERHAM what Castrol Edge are we talking about? The 504/507 the dealers use?

There have been many guys who have tracked their VW's with catch cans and the intake and exhaust valves still were gunked up. So not sure what to day on that one. Logic would tell you they would work but don't. Not in the case of VW's TSI 2.0T.
Jeff

First, I never heard of exhaust valves getting gunked up since they usually run hot enough to burn off any deposits.
Secondly,if the intake valves are getting gunked up and no other parts of the intake tract, then it's worn valve seals that are usually the cause.


The Exhuast valve part came from the Lubrizol report. I was paraphrasing what they posted.

Jeff