Current Briggs & Stratton small engines any good?

[Zedhed]

Originally Posted By: boraticus
Despite the archaic technology of the side valve engine it's been a proven workhorse over the years and the B&S/Tecumseh side valve engines are virtually indestructible if reasonable amounts of oil are kept in them.


I've had plenty of B&S side-valve engines and the ones with the aluminum bores are certainly NOT indestructable. Those aluminum bores wear out in a couple of years and are not worth rebuilding. Now the B&S engines with the cast-iron bores are pretty decent engines, even though the valve seats can have problems.

 

[boraticus]

I'm certain that there will be a failure rate on all engines. I bet if you did a poll to see how many of us are running ancient (25 year old plus) B&S or Tecumseh engines, you'd be surprised to see how many there are still running strong. I've got a 30 year old Tecumseh 3.5 h.p. that's been to [censored] and back and is still cutting grass.

Can't speak for the aluminum bore side valve engines. I do have a three year old 305cc aluminum bore B&S overhead valve engine on my snow thrower that seems like a very good motor.

 

[kbowley]

In my opinion, the side valve Briggs is amoung the best small engine ever made. I have been collecting, working on, selling, and using garden tractors for 30 years. I have a stable of 30 or so tractors so I am not speaking out my [censored]. Examples; I have a 1992 WheelHorse 212-h with 1800 hrs. on the 12 hp I/C and it runs perfectly and uses no oil between changes, I have a early 90's Bolens ST with a 10 HP PowerBuilt (aluminum bore) with 2200 hrs, a 72 Toro 8-26 snowblower that still runs perfectly...i would bet a months pay that it would start on the second pull after setting all summer. I could go on with several more examples, In my book, it ranks right there with a K Series Kohler if not better. They are about the most indestructible engines ever...heck, you can run them on used oil, vegetable oil...just keep running...I have an old Grants 3.5 HP push mower that I use as a brush hog to do the sides of my driveway, it is missing one front wheel and hasnt had an air filter on it in 15 years yet I mow along the side of my gravel drive in the middle of a dust storm thats so bad you cant see me...still going. The newer OHV engines pale in comparison, I only regard the Vanguard as somewhat decent,as is the Kohler Command, but the manufacturers have gone to the Intecs and courage engines as the former are expensive. The Courage engines are throwing rods faster than they can fix them and are very lucky to see 500 hrs. Same with the Intec but a little better, they bend push rods. One of the problems I see as a cause for these failures, pushing more horsepower than the block can handle. For instance, a 17 hp Briggs or Kohler single has far fewer problems than he 21 hp engines. The crank cases are flexing under high pto load and they flex as much as .010...there goes the crank bearing. Lets not even touch Onans, still pushrods, still 3k hrs with ease. Only used in skidsteers now a days. The companies didnt switch to the ohv design for durability, they did it for emissions to get better placement of the valves for more complete combustion. They do not produce more torque in the real world...you can search for dyno tests of side valves and see an old 12 hp Briggs pushing 25 lb. ft. of torque, thats more than a 17 hp ohv at about 22.

 

[Zedhed]

Originally Posted By: kbowley
In my opinion, the side valve Briggs is amoung the best small engine ever made. I have been collecting, working on, selling, and using garden tractors for 30 years. I have a stable of 30 or so tractors so I am not speaking out my [censored]. The companies didnt switch to the ohv design for durability, they did it for emissions to get better placement of the valves for more complete combustion. They do not produce more torque in the real world...you can search for dyno tests of side valves and see an old 12 hp Briggs pushing 25 lb. ft. of torque, thats more than a 17 hp ohv at about 22.


Then why did automotive companies switch to OHV engines in the 50's? Certainly wasn't for emissions reasons... I don't think that is the entire reason for using side-valve engines.... B&S can just manufacture side-valves cheaper that OHV engines and so it is an economic decision.

 

[Virtuoso]

Hmm..

The 675 series engine on our '08 Craftsman walk-behind apparantly has an Aluminum-alloy bore. I guess we'll see how long it lasts!

 

[Cmarti]

Seriously guys, We fret and worry and debate. I have never had a small 4 cycle engine of any brand not last double digit years. Honda, Briggs, Tecumseh, even Chonda (Jiang Dong 5 years). Change the oil, air filter and spark plug. It is simple enough to take these carbs off and clean them if needed. (It is usually on somebody elses equipment that does not maintain them). The nonadjustable carbs Tecumseh used could be a pain if fuel in system and in storage. I have had to adjust valves and replace govenors. But other than that, no engine failure other than a 15 year old job site generator.

I just bought a new lawnboy to add to my stable of LBs and I use it for trim work on my property. It cost $270 and has a 3 year warranty. At the end of the day if the aluminum bore B & S lasts 5 years what am I out?

Now the more important question is what oil should I run in this new cool bore?

 

[boraticus]

"Now the more important question is what oil should I run in this new cool bore?"

What does your manual recommend? I run 5W30 M1 synthetic in the Kool Bore on my snow thrower but that's winter use. I'd probably run.....wait for it..... the usual in a lawnmower any HDEO 15W40ish.

 

[Zedhed]

Originally Posted By: Cmarti


It cost $270 and has a 3 year warranty. At the end of the day if the aluminum bore B & S lasts 5 years what am I out?



I feel the same way, lawnmowers are a disposable appliance. When they are used up, get a new one. I just wanted to present the other "side-of-the-coin" Some people have this notion that they can make internal combustion engines last "forever"

Some engines do last longer, with less problems than others, but none last forever. They are all subject to wear and will, with enough use, wear out.

B&S side-valve engines are the lowest common denominator, but they are fairly functional and reliable units. The side-valve engine will soon be a relic because of future EPA regs, so don't get too attached to them.

 

[boraticus]

I agree with your prediction about the side valve small engine.

However, every time I go to start up my 30 year old Craftsman, the first thing that goes through my mind is "When is this thing ever going to quit?" It always starts, always runs well, doesn't use much oil or fuel. It is an amazing little engine considering it's simplicity.

 

[kbowley]

You should run what the engineers that have been designing them 50 years recommends. Straight HD30w

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: motorcity
It seems like they have alot of carb problems. I don't know if its the ethanol, or what. What also bothers me is the camsfat lobes on some models are nylon, and nylon becomes brittle over time. So how long will a motor last would be my concern.


I've heard stories about the carbs over the past few years, too.

Here's a story about a B&S that no one will ever believe. It does show how good the old ones were, though. About twenty years ago, my dad and I were puttering around the farm and were bored; harvest was done. We had an old auger with a B&S that had been sitting outside in the scrap heap for twenty years, never having been run since it was put there.

We decided to see if we could make it run. So, after a rinse of the gas tank, a bit of solvent and elbow grease to the carb, a wire brush to the spark plug, and fresh oil, along with a bit of gas dumped into the carb, it started in under five pulls! I just about fell over. I have more trouble with carbs on newer snowblowers and lawnmowers that sit for a few months after the season than we did with this thing sitting for twenty years outside!

As for the oil, because someone's sure to be interested, it was an old can of SE rated Rotella 30.

 

[Cmarti]

I was kind of joking about arguing oil....I think you can use anything from driveway sealer to WD 40 in a Briggs.

I am a Rotella 5-40 syn guy for aircooled, but am not sure it matters all that much.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: Zedhed

Then why did automotive companies switch to OHV engines in the 50's? Certainly wasn't for emissions reasons... I don't think that is the entire reason for using side-valve engines.... B&S can just manufacture side-valves cheaper that OHV engines and so it is an economic decision.


Flat heads, especially in automotive engines were prone to hot spots and valve issues. Not only that, an OHV engine breathes more efficiently giving you more power with less fuel being burnt. That's why flat heads were scrapped in the automotive realm.

In regards to mowers, a cheapy Briggs side valve has got to be the least expensive engine to produce. That's what you get on a
The SAE30 oil thing? Yes this is what has been spec'd for ~50yrs, but only because it covers most owners operating conditions with one spec.

Joel

 

[Samilcar]

Originally Posted By: kbowley
You should run what the engineers that have been designing them 50 years recommends. Straight HD30w


B&S engineers recommend 5W-30 synthetic oil as the preferred choice now.

http://www.briggsandstratton.com/maint_repair/routine_maintenance/changing_oil/

 

[Beachboy]

My only experience with Briggs engines on lawnmowers was in 1964 and that 3 HP engine was a piece of junk. I never bought 4 stroke again and bought exclusively 2 stroke Lawnboy from 1966 to 1990. Due to the EPA's outlawing 2 stroke engines, the last Lawnboy I have has the 160 Honda engine. My other engine choices were Tecumseh or the evil Briggs. I love this Honda 160, it starts on the first pull, even after sitting in the garage over the winter, it uses half the fuel of the OMC 2 stroke, and it doesn't touch a drop of oil....I've never added oil in the three years I've used it. I'm sold as Honda being the only company that knows how to build engines....lawnmower OR car engines!

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: Beachboy
My only experience with Briggs engines on lawnmowers was in 1964 and that 3 HP engine was a piece of junk. I never bought 4 stroke again and bought exclusively 2 stroke Lawnboy from 1966 to 1990. Due to the EPA's outlawing 2 stroke engines, the last Lawnboy I have has the 160 Honda engine. My other engine choices were Tecumseh or the evil Briggs. I love this Honda 160, it starts on the first pull, even after sitting in the garage over the winter, it uses half the fuel of the OMC 2 stroke, and it doesn't touch a drop of oil....I've never added oil in the three years I've used it. I'm sold as Honda being the only company that knows how to build engines....lawnmower OR car engines!



So... You have completely written off Briggs & Stratton because of a single bad experience over 40 years ago....

 

[Hitzy]

I had one Briggs [censored] out in the family, it was my moms, I didn't even know she had it, and it was never winterized. The rings gave out after only a few years, gave it to someone that said they could fix it and told them to keep it.
I had the diaphram go on one of mine, but it was an easy fix. As mentioned, change the oil, plug, clean the air filter from time to time and it will last 10 years.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Beachboy
My only experience with Briggs engines on lawnmowers was in 1964 and that 3 HP engine was a piece of junk. I never bought 4 stroke again and bought exclusively 2 stroke Lawnboy from 1966 to 1990. Due to the EPA's outlawing 2 stroke engines, the last Lawnboy I have has the 160 Honda engine. My other engine choices were Tecumseh or the evil Briggs. I love this Honda 160, it starts on the first pull, even after sitting in the garage over the winter, it uses half the fuel of the OMC 2 stroke, and it doesn't touch a drop of oil....I've never added oil in the three years I've used it. I'm sold as Honda being the only company that knows how to build engines....lawnmower OR car engines!


I hear ya on the Hondas (and the Lawn-Boys). I have a Lawn-Boy 10330 that came with a 4-cycle Tecumseh and I converted it to a Honda GCV160. It's my favorite mower.

 

[jdh]

all the ope we have are kohler,kawasaki,honda and techumseh. all have been stone reliable other than normal wear items and oil changes. i think a motor is only as good as the maintenance done to them, nothing against briggs we just dont own any. we spend a couple days each year sharpening blades, cleaning air filters, and changing oil and filters. i think this goes along way to how long a motor or piece of equiptment last.

as far as the honda gc160s go ours has been a dream, its quiet and it starts everytime on the first pull. unless it has been stored for a couple months then it takes two!! no oil usage or smoke at startup, we use sae 30 valvoline in it and have no problems what so ever. its a horizontal shaft on a pressure washer that is about 7 years old with around 20hrs use each year.

 

[Schmoe]

Sooooooooooooooo, which is BEST????? OHV or Side? Al or Fe bore? I don't know exactly what kind of guts my [censored] Quantum has in it, but for well over ten years, thing runs great.