Cummins vs Powerstroke vs Duramax
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Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
I would not have guessed ram_man would say the Cummins is best.
Originally Posted By: ram_man
I work on a lot of Ford power strokes and yes avoid the 6.0 like the plague. I see more of them come in on roll backs than any other vehicle.
The duramax is decent but kind of complicated and expensive. All diesels are kind of that way though. I say a 7.3 power stroke or a Cummins. Cummins is the best engine but the 7.3 is darn good as well. Cummins is easier to work on to.
I'm not biased I don't think. but can you disagree that the Cummins isn't the best? They have a track record that proves it imo. But the 7.3 is very good I see some come in that absolutely get the living [censored] beat out of them and they are tough and still going. The 6.0 well you couldn't pay me enough to own one. Anything can be reliable but a truck as expensive as the super dutys should be reliable out of the box not "fix all this stuff and then it'll be a good truck" Ford agreed hence why they aren't with international anymore.
I would not have guessed ram_man would say the Cummins is best.
Originally Posted By: ram_man
I work on a lot of Ford power strokes and yes avoid the 6.0 like the plague. I see more of them come in on roll backs than any other vehicle.
The duramax is decent but kind of complicated and expensive. All diesels are kind of that way though. I say a 7.3 power stroke or a Cummins. Cummins is the best engine but the 7.3 is darn good as well. Cummins is easier to work on to.
I'm not biased I don't think. but can you disagree that the Cummins isn't the best? They have a track record that proves it imo. But the 7.3 is very good I see some come in that absolutely get the living [censored] beat out of them and they are tough and still going. The 6.0 well you couldn't pay me enough to own one. Anything can be reliable but a truck as expensive as the super dutys should be reliable out of the box not "fix all this stuff and then it'll be a good truck" Ford agreed hence why they aren't with international anymore.
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Newer trucks with the diesel exhaust fluid and DPFs get about 8-10 mpg.
Being that you're so wrong with this first statement,there is no need to even quote the rest of your reply.
Newer trucks with the diesel exhaust fluid and DPFs get about 8-10 mpg.
Being that you're so wrong with this first statement,there is no need to even quote the rest of your reply.
Originally Posted By: Stewart Fan
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Newer trucks with the diesel exhaust fluid and DPFs get about 8-10 mpg.
Being that you're so wrong with this first statement,there is no need to even quote the rest of your reply.
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Newer trucks with the diesel exhaust fluid and DPFs get about 8-10 mpg.
Being that you're so wrong with this first statement,there is no need to even quote the rest of your reply.
1st-you do not need a diesel unless you are towing over 8000lbs over a long distance and or hauling HEAVY like 3000lbs+. The added expense of the engine and maintenance is not justifiable other wise. I still have the truck in my sig and when purchased it was needed for pulling 24' car hauler. Now that the hauler has been sold I still need the HD just w/o the durmax. Since it's payed for why get rid of it. When used for what they're built for they'rrr great!
If you still desire one then consider the following information.
Durmax and PowerStroke are more like a gas engine. You have to get them revved up around 1800-2000k rpms and they really take off and pull very hard to red line.
As far as towing the edge goes to the Durmax, PowerStroke and Cummins. (Proven in test's head to head two different times by Diesel World).
Cummins has the huge advantage off the line, anywhere where low rpm torque is the king. Thank class 8 truck, same engine scaled down.
Fuel economy goes to the Durmax,then PowerStroke and Finally Cummins.
Durability goes to the Cummins. Durmax and Powerstroke have had some issues with the cp4 falling and sending metal through the entire fuel system in the 2011+ models.
If you still desire one then consider the following information.
Durmax and PowerStroke are more like a gas engine. You have to get them revved up around 1800-2000k rpms and they really take off and pull very hard to red line.
As far as towing the edge goes to the Durmax, PowerStroke and Cummins. (Proven in test's head to head two different times by Diesel World).
Cummins has the huge advantage off the line, anywhere where low rpm torque is the king. Thank class 8 truck, same engine scaled down.
Fuel economy goes to the Durmax,then PowerStroke and Finally Cummins.
Durability goes to the Cummins. Durmax and Powerstroke have had some issues with the cp4 falling and sending metal through the entire fuel system in the 2011+ models.
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We run a couple of 1-ton flatbed trucks to deliver oil out of on lighter days (Peterbilt 330's with the Cummins ISC 8.3 normally). One is a 2012 Ford F-350 with the 6.7 and the other is a 2014 Chevrolet 3500 with the 6.6 Duramax. From personal experience using both of these trucks extensively, the Ford will work circles around the Chevy.
I've had the Ford severely overloaded with 18 drums of oil and a mobile oil pump (7500 or so pounds) and it still did great. It does have some turbo lag, but then a huge surge of power.
I've had the Ford severely overloaded with 18 drums of oil and a mobile oil pump (7500 or so pounds) and it still did great. It does have some turbo lag, but then a huge surge of power.
Has anyone done a spreadsheet comparison of expenses for a diesel vs gasoline purchase and ownership over a specified time period?
If you go to buy a medium duty truck (650/6500+), the only engine out of the three you are going to find is the Cummins engine.....in the Ford F650 at that. The fact that Ford wouldn't use its own baby for the F650 should tell you enough about that.
Wonder what it must be like for a Ford commercial salesman to selling people away from the ISB 6.7, and toward it all in the same day.
If you want a diesel that drives like a gas engine, get the Duramax or Powerstroke. If you want a real commercial grade engine that will go the long haul, get a Cummins or a Powerstroke 7.3.
One of the guys who delivers cars to us runs a 5-car fifth wheel carrier with his new Ram 3500 4x4. He's DOT certified to 44,990 GWR and routinely does carry 5 cars/SUVs at the same time, and loves his truck to death. He's running a business, so he can't afford to [censored] himself. If you do get a Ram diesel, you're not going to have a problem towing anything, except maybe a neighborhood.
Wonder what it must be like for a Ford commercial salesman to selling people away from the ISB 6.7, and toward it all in the same day.
If you want a diesel that drives like a gas engine, get the Duramax or Powerstroke. If you want a real commercial grade engine that will go the long haul, get a Cummins or a Powerstroke 7.3.
One of the guys who delivers cars to us runs a 5-car fifth wheel carrier with his new Ram 3500 4x4. He's DOT certified to 44,990 GWR and routinely does carry 5 cars/SUVs at the same time, and loves his truck to death. He's running a business, so he can't afford to [censored] himself. If you do get a Ram diesel, you're not going to have a problem towing anything, except maybe a neighborhood.
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
If you go to buy a medium duty truck (650/6500+), the only engine out of the three you are going to find is the Cummins engine.....in the Ford F650 at that. The fact that Ford wouldn't use its own baby for the F650 should tell you enough about that.
Wonder what it must be like for a Ford commercial salesman to selling people away from the ISB 6.7, and toward it all in the same day.
If you want a diesel that drives like a gas engine, get the Duramax or Powerstroke. If you want a real commercial grade engine that will go the long haul, get a Cummins or a Powerstroke 7.3.
One of the guys who delivers cars to us runs a 5-car fifth wheel carrier with his new Ram 3500 4x4. He's DOT certified to 44,990 GWR and routinely does carry 5 cars/SUVs at the same time, and loves his truck to death. He's running a business, so he can't afford to [censored] himself. If you do get a Ram diesel, you're not going to have a problem towing anything, except maybe a neighborhood.
I think Ford dropped the Cummins for their upcoming medium duty trucks in favor of the Powerstroke.
If you go to buy a medium duty truck (650/6500+), the only engine out of the three you are going to find is the Cummins engine.....in the Ford F650 at that. The fact that Ford wouldn't use its own baby for the F650 should tell you enough about that.
Wonder what it must be like for a Ford commercial salesman to selling people away from the ISB 6.7, and toward it all in the same day.
If you want a diesel that drives like a gas engine, get the Duramax or Powerstroke. If you want a real commercial grade engine that will go the long haul, get a Cummins or a Powerstroke 7.3.
One of the guys who delivers cars to us runs a 5-car fifth wheel carrier with his new Ram 3500 4x4. He's DOT certified to 44,990 GWR and routinely does carry 5 cars/SUVs at the same time, and loves his truck to death. He's running a business, so he can't afford to [censored] himself. If you do get a Ram diesel, you're not going to have a problem towing anything, except maybe a neighborhood.
I think Ford dropped the Cummins for their upcoming medium duty trucks in favor of the Powerstroke.
Their current website for the F650/750 has all ISB, all the time on it.
But yes, it does seem they are planning to dip the Powerstroke into the medium duty market. We'll see how that works out.
But yes, it does seem they are planning to dip the Powerstroke into the medium duty market. We'll see how that works out.
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Has anyone done a spreadsheet comparison of expenses for a diesel vs gasoline purchase and ownership over a specified time period?
I did some calculations awhile back. Friend had a new Chevy w/ Duramax that he needed for towing. Got 18 highway. Before that he had the Chevy with the 5.3 and got 15 if lucky.
Between the 2, the Diesel was around 10k more expensive. With a 3mpg difference it would take quite awhile to make the diesel pay off, especially with diesel fuel being more expensive.
BUT...towing the mobile home was a different story. The diesel would hover around 10-11 and having an easy time on the highway, and the gasser would be down at 5 or 6 and working very hard the entire time.
Has anyone done a spreadsheet comparison of expenses for a diesel vs gasoline purchase and ownership over a specified time period?
I did some calculations awhile back. Friend had a new Chevy w/ Duramax that he needed for towing. Got 18 highway. Before that he had the Chevy with the 5.3 and got 15 if lucky.
Between the 2, the Diesel was around 10k more expensive. With a 3mpg difference it would take quite awhile to make the diesel pay off, especially with diesel fuel being more expensive.
BUT...towing the mobile home was a different story. The diesel would hover around 10-11 and having an easy time on the highway, and the gasser would be down at 5 or 6 and working very hard the entire time.
On rare occasions (when my van was down) I've pulled our 8 foot tall 7X14 foot tandem enclosed equipment trailer with the Ram in my sig, gotten 15 MPG & been able to stay in O/D on all but the steepest hills. The '12 van in my sig is lucky to get 8 MPG pulling it & is killing the transmission with hard up & downshifts & high RPMs. If you tow/haul anything there's no comparison. DPFs can be made to disappear.
Yes they can. DPF and the rest of the turbo-back exhaust was the first thing to go.
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Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
If you go to buy a medium duty truck (650/6500+), the only engine out of the three you are going to find is the Cummins engine.....in the Ford F650 at that. The fact that Ford wouldn't use its own baby for the F650 should tell you enough about that.
Not really. If we are cruising that anecdote the 6.0L and 6.4L were also both medium duty engines (VT365 and Maxxforce 7), used extensively in school buses and the like. Obviously they were the pinnacle of dependability because they saw that service, right?
And the upcoming F-650/750 will be sporting either the 6.8L V10 or the 6.7L PSD.
http://www.ford.com/commercial-trucks/f650-f750/2016/
Ford has plenty of faith in their new diesel engine. I think they needed some time to set it up for commercial service.
If you go to buy a medium duty truck (650/6500+), the only engine out of the three you are going to find is the Cummins engine.....in the Ford F650 at that. The fact that Ford wouldn't use its own baby for the F650 should tell you enough about that.
Not really. If we are cruising that anecdote the 6.0L and 6.4L were also both medium duty engines (VT365 and Maxxforce 7), used extensively in school buses and the like. Obviously they were the pinnacle of dependability because they saw that service, right?
And the upcoming F-650/750 will be sporting either the 6.8L V10 or the 6.7L PSD.
http://www.ford.com/commercial-trucks/f650-f750/2016/
Ford has plenty of faith in their new diesel engine. I think they needed some time to set it up for commercial service.
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Yes they can. DPF and the rest of the turbo-back exhaust was the first thing to go.
Stupidity at it's finest...
(not you the concept of removing them)
Yes they can. DPF and the rest of the turbo-back exhaust was the first thing to go.
Stupidity at it's finest...
(not you the concept of removing them)
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gassers
I routinely pull 7500 lbs with a 6.0 gasser and 4 speed. Get about 8 MPG. They are reliable and I would venture to say are easier to maintain. What will you be doing with the truck?
gassers
I routinely pull 7500 lbs with a 6.0 gasser and 4 speed. Get about 8 MPG. They are reliable and I would venture to say are easier to maintain. What will you be doing with the truck?
Yep a 6.0 will get the job done, it'll just be a bit thirsty.
My 09 Dmax only tows, that's what we bought it for. About 13k pounds loaded up with our 5th wheel rig. On a 3300 mile trip through the mountains and all the midwest I averaged almost 13 mpg.
I thought that was great. It's never missed a beat, and runs smoothly and quietly.
Did all my research on the RV boards, Dmax was the king.
My 09 Dmax only tows, that's what we bought it for. About 13k pounds loaded up with our 5th wheel rig. On a 3300 mile trip through the mountains and all the midwest I averaged almost 13 mpg.
I thought that was great. It's never missed a beat, and runs smoothly and quietly.
Did all my research on the RV boards, Dmax was the king.
Originally Posted By: Stewart Fan
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Newer trucks with the diesel exhaust fluid and DPFs get about 8-10 mpg.
Being that you're so wrong with this first statement,there is no need to even quote the rest of your reply.
Okay, then what magical fuel mileage do YOU get with these trucks?
The 2011 Ford F350 with the 6.7L we use at work gets 8-9 mpg consistently. Maybe you should actually drive a vehicle before calling other people SO WRONG.
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Newer trucks with the diesel exhaust fluid and DPFs get about 8-10 mpg.
Being that you're so wrong with this first statement,there is no need to even quote the rest of your reply.
Okay, then what magical fuel mileage do YOU get with these trucks?
The 2011 Ford F350 with the 6.7L we use at work gets 8-9 mpg consistently. Maybe you should actually drive a vehicle before calling other people SO WRONG.
You cant go wrong with a Cummins or Dmax. I love my '06 with the 5.9 Cummins, it only has 78k pampered miles, but when i need to work it, the power is there. Never had any trouble in 8 years. Any LBZ, LMM, or LML Duramax is the way to go, try to stay away from the earlier LLY and LB7 engines. If you buy one with a DPF, whether it be a Cummins or Dmax, DELETE THE DPF. its the best thing you can do for the life of the engine and dont pay attention to the ones who worry about the warranty. Most people who have problems after they delete are the ones who dont tune it right and go out and run it like a scalded dog 24/7. If I go out and pay $50,000 plus for a truck im sure as [censored] not going to let someone tell me i cant delete it.
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