Corvette UA0 with Redline 5w30: High Lead

Originally Posted By: Dirty_Howie
So are you opposed to trying the Mobil1 0w40 and see what the results are ?

No, I wouldn't be opposed to that in the least. I'd just point out that it's not going to actually be thicker, with respect to operating viscosity. In any event, I would consider it a completely acceptable choice for your engine. Also, when switching up, it'll take at least an OCI or two to get UOA matters straightened out once again.

Originally Posted By: Dirty_Howie
I would like to proceed in a fashion that you and Gokhan would agree upon ................ if thats possible.

See, it's possible.
wink.gif
Now, if you want to try a bit thicker, try my Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, which will have a slightly higher HTHS. Let's see if he agrees with that.
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If he wants to go with Delvac, it's OK. I ran the conventional Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 for many years. My engine is still in great condition. But since the synthetic Delvac is hard-to-find and/or expensive, I think the Mobil 1 0W-40 SN, which sells for $26.44 per five quarts at Walmart, is a simpler first-order attempt. Walmart also carries Rotella 5W-40 for only $19.57 a gallon and Mobil 1 5W-40 TDT for $26.83 a gallon if he wants to go with diesel oil. However, I don't see the advantage when there is the gasoline-engine-tuned Mobil 1 0W-40. It's arguable what all the soot dispersants in the diesel-engine oil do in gasoline engines.
 
Red Line 5W-30 is claimed to be an ester oil on their Web site. I've seen some dismal UOAs with the Nissan 5W-30 ester oil.

So, is the ester oil that is causing the high lead due to weak oil-film strength (small PVC) of ester base stock? You can't be sure unless you try a different oil, such as Mobil 1 0W-40.

Sure, there are a lot of good UOAs with Red Line 5W-30. But that could simply be because those engines are not demanding on oil and/or they are in excellent mechanical condition. If your engine is demanding on oil or it already has some mechanical problem, your experience will differ, and that's exactly why you should start experiencing with different oils.
 
Just to be clear. I am not concerned about the added cost of a premium oil. This is a $17K motor to replace if it blows up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks guys for coming to a concensus. I will do the Mobil1 0w40 and then we can compare UAO.

DH
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Walmart also carries Rotella 5W-40 for only $19.57 a gallon and Mobil 1 5W-40 TDT for $26.83 a gallon if he wants to go with diesel oil.

Well, you know how wacky our pricing is up here. Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40 is the cheapest of all those up here by a significant margin. M1 0w-40 only recently became available in jugs up here, so was always an expensive option.

As for the Nissan ester oil, do recall that it's got almost no ester in it whatsoever. That was as much of a marketing gimmick as anything else. XOM suggested it was basically a Group III, if that, according to their testing.

Dirty_Howie: That sounds like a plan. Just don't get caught up in the trap of using UOAs to try to compare which is a better lubricant. That is a bit of a minefield, to say the least.
 
I am troubled by this new (to me) pressure viscosity coefficient metric. If indeed it shows a weakness in ester based oils it does not square with over 20 years of continuous hard use of Redline oils in the SE-R in the signature below. As some of you know I have described its use in various competitions and hard use up to this day. 225K of 242K miles has been "ester based oil" without so much as a spun bearing or any other need to have it apart. Hard use is putting it mildly with innumerable long stints into and out of the 6-8000rpm range and it is still repeatedly redlined in the local mountains at least once per week. I would find it unlikely anybody would say it's not seen extremely hard use.

Until I see some real world example that PVC has something other than theoretical merit with esters I will remain unconvinced. It may be that PVC is a distinction without a difference. I just don't know but if it's held everything together for a couple of hundred thousand miles then something about the PVC metric regarding esters is in doubt. I do wish the OP well with this change to a known exceptional oil. I expect good results although I too worry it may be a bit thin.
 
This very interesting Chevron patent claims that GTL base stocks have a higher pressure - viscosity coefficient (PVC), which means a lot thicker oil film under pressure (a lot higher oil-film strength, which results in an a lot higher EHL [elastohydrodynamic lubrication] film), which in turn means a lot less wear. Patent also emphasizes that the effect has nothing to do with the base stock's viscosity index (VI). Note that PVC is the exponential coefficient that relates a base stock's viscosity under pressure (such as thousands of atmospheric pressure produced when squeezed between moving parts) to its atmospheric-pressure viscosity reported in the specification sheets (KV40 and KV100).

I am now considering the switch to the new generation of oil technology using GTL base stocks, currently available in Pennzoil Platinum PurePlus products.

Chevron patent: Lubricating oil with improved wear properties

Link to the thread under PCMO: Click here
 
After reading the Chevron patent more, I saw that they compared GTL only with Group II. Group III, IV, and V were not included.

Since Group II is supposed to have the highest 100 C PVC, the patent's argument is that GTL's PVC falls slower with temperature than Group II's PVC and at higher temperatures, GTL actually has a higher PVC.

Since GTL is similar to Group III and IV in structure, I expect similar results for them. In short, it looks like synthetic base stocks actually have a higher high-temperature (130+ C) PVC, despite having a lower 100 C PVC, and they show higher oil-film strength and less wear than conventional at normal and severe operating conditions.

Therefore, I am not worried about the PVC of synthetic oil (including Group V esters) anymore.

I still recommend Mobil 1 0W-40 SN in your case as a first-order attempt to decrease wear. You can use thicker oil if that doesn't work.
 
Thanks for all the research efforts.

I currently have 3K since my last oil change.

I will be trying the Mobil1 0w40

I will do Blackstone again on this current fill of Redline and update this thread with those results.

DH
 
Changing oil this weekend with Mobil1 0w40.

Will see if you guys know what the [censored] you are talking about soon enough .........

DH
 
Originally Posted By: Dirty_Howie
Changing oil this weekend with Mobil1 0w40.

Will see if you guys know what the [censored] you are talking about soon enough .........

DH


Hi DH,
Do not omit to send a sample for analysis...
 
Originally Posted By: miami993
Originally Posted By: Dirty_Howie
Changing oil this weekend with Mobil1 0w40.

Will see if you guys know what the [censored] you are talking about soon enough .........

DH


Hi DH,
Do not omit to send a sample for analysis...


Of course not. Will get Blackstone for current Redline fill and then the Mobil1 in 3-4K miles.

And will report back here.

DH
 
Got the Mobil1 0w40 in today. Oil pressure seemed to be the same as the Redline 5w30 hot. Will need to see pressure and how it sounds when cold tomorrow morning.

Blackstone will be mailed monday.

DH
 
Here is my recent UOA. It is still with the Redline 5w30. Car runs great and sounds very quiet. And Oil pressure continues to be very good....better than my previous 2 LS7 motors.

Will get the Mobil 0w40 UAO soon as I get at least 3K miles on it.

 
Originally Posted By: Dirty_Howie
Just to be clear. I am not concerned about the added cost of a premium oil. This is a $17K motor to replace if it blows up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks guys for coming to a concensus. I will do the Mobil1 0w40 and then we can compare UAO.

DH
Oil is the cheapest diagnostic thing you can do. It seems Redline oil works great or it doesn't . I thought Redline was the end all to be all oil but over the years it seems not to be.I only use the MTL and D4 with good results.This is really a stupid statement but years ago when I would go to the boat drags, the top fuel engines running Redline didn't look any better on the rebuild between matches that the engines using other oils. But then The life of the engine is maybe a minute or two.
 
I think you may have to go at least a couple of OCI's to be certain that you're seeing only results of the M1. You have been very consistent with your short mileage changes. I do wonder if there will still be a variable with the "too frequent" change issue where some feel there is a washing-off and replacement issue with regard to the AW components. It jives with some old Ford test data if I recall but that's fuzzy memory on my part. I have no worry whatsoever that the M1 0-40 will do anything but fine in your use. But I'm just old school enough to have wanted you to go heavier (~4.5+ HTHSv - I obviously don't fear "high" oil pressure) in this case but we'll see. Good luck, I wish it was my problem (having your Corvette I mean...).
 
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: Dirty_Howie
Just to be clear. I am not concerned about the added cost of a premium oil. This is a $17K motor to replace if it blows up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks guys for coming to a concensus. I will do the Mobil1 0w40 and then we can compare UAO.

DH
Oil is the cheapest diagnostic thing you can do. It seems Redline oil works great or it doesn't . I thought Redline was the end all to be all oil but over the years it seems not to be.I only use the MTL and D4 with good results.This is really a stupid statement but years ago when I would go to the boat drags, the top fuel engines running Redline didn't look any better on the rebuild between matches that the engines using other oils. But then The life of the engine is maybe a minute or two.


I was only going by online enthusiasm for RL. I am not married to it and will be very happy if Mobil 0w40 works as good or better.

DH
 
Originally Posted By: DeepFriar
I think you may have to go at least a couple of OCI's to be certain that you're seeing only results of the M1. You have been very consistent with your short mileage changes. I do wonder if there will still be a variable with the "too frequent" change issue where some feel there is a washing-off and replacement issue with regard to the AW components. It jives with some old Ford test data if I recall but that's fuzzy memory on my part. I have no worry whatsoever that the M1 0-40 will do anything but fine in your use. But I'm just old school enough to have wanted you to go heavier (~4.5+ HTHSv - I obviously don't fear "high" oil pressure) in this case but we'll see. Good luck, I wish it was my problem (having your Corvette I mean...).


Well I am likely to keep the OCI the same, especially for comparative purposes. I am sure there will be some discussion of running the Mobil for more than one OCI based on what ever the results are.

Have about 500 on the Mobil and motor seems a little quiter .....

DH
 
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