I run FAME method sample identification and quantification of essence oil samples from time to time at work. The next time I run some samples, I was thinking about running some auto-RX to see what fatty acids a=show up on mt analysis. Anyone tried this yet?
Components of A-Rx?
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Nothing is going to show up ask Dyson Oil Analysis, when your done cleaning and rinse all you have is your oil chemistry. Since Auto-Rx is not solvent or petroluem based and oil is just a carrier all you have contaminants.
No, I was thinking about doing a fatty acid analysis on pure, out of the bottle Auto-Rx. The method includes a hydrolysis step of all esters, followed by a methyl esterification of all fatty acids and a GC/MS identification of the methyl esters. It may give an idea of the fatty acid portions of the esters in autoRx, although would give no info as to the alcohol-portion of the ester.
ls1 - don't get banned homie.... any in depth analysis of auto-rx is highly discouraged, though i would personally implore you to go ahead, and post the results for all to see.... lots of paranoia of formula copying out there
MolaKule
Staff member
Why go to all the trouble? Just read the patent disclosure. It's just various esters with the processing and proportions that are trade secret. A normal oil analysis will show nothing but viscosity, TAN, and maybe tbn.
You're not really doing an out-of-the-bottle analysis by breaking down the fatty acid and then esterifying it.
BTW, how are you going to filter out the methylation spikes?
You're not really doing an out-of-the-bottle analysis by breaking down the fatty acid and then esterifying it.
BTW, how are you going to filter out the methylation spikes?
vairox, you are the cock of the walk here as far as attacking sponsors of BITOG, you have a problem with the products please get it out in the open.
I find that getting our frustrations out amongst family is good without the sniping.
No one is hiding anything. I help found this site with Bob Winters just so we could get things out in the open and ELIMINATE marketing baloney.
Now if you want to disclose so to harm then thats an issue especially when the product has allowed itself to be examined, used, and cross checked here for 4 or 5 years.
Fraternally, Terry
I find that getting our frustrations out amongst family is good without the sniping.
No one is hiding anything. I help found this site with Bob Winters just so we could get things out in the open and ELIMINATE marketing baloney.
Now if you want to disclose so to harm then thats an issue especially when the product has allowed itself to be examined, used, and cross checked here for 4 or 5 years.
Fraternally, Terry
don't get all defensive, no one is attacking the sponsor or the product, i'm questioning it's components and whats in it...and the fact that no one seems willing to say exacly what IS in it as if it's some bigtime secret....if wanting to know what is in a product prior to putting it into your engine is attacking a sponsor then i'm the super mega ninja special ops sponsor assassin in the shadows on this website...
perhaps aligning yourself so closely to the discussed products has allowed you to take what i said personally, i'm an equal opportunity product questioner, i prefer no additive over the other, though vsot seems pretty good...i just want to know what is in an additive and how it works to do what it claims it does, every additive regardless of whether or not they are a sponsor
perhaps aligning yourself so closely to the discussed products has allowed you to take what i said personally, i'm an equal opportunity product questioner, i prefer no additive over the other, though vsot seems pretty good...i just want to know what is in an additive and how it works to do what it claims it does, every additive regardless of whether or not they are a sponsor
I "aligned" myself with the Auto-RX and Lubecontrol products because they are so unique and capable after being hired to test them. Almost exclusively here at BITOG.
As I have stated ,ad nauseum here, I test many products and you never hear or see me publicly mention them.. because they are the same old chems.
IMO,Both products disclose as much as they can and after years ( 60 in LC's case) of successful use by the public I doubt you'll get more until they are large enough to protect those formulas properly.
"vsot seems pretty good" Amazing that you would make that statement when you don't know what it is either. ???? unbiased view...
Terry
As I have stated ,ad nauseum here, I test many products and you never hear or see me publicly mention them.. because they are the same old chems.
IMO,Both products disclose as much as they can and after years ( 60 in LC's case) of successful use by the public I doubt you'll get more until they are large enough to protect those formulas properly.
"vsot seems pretty good" Amazing that you would make that statement when you don't know what it is either. ???? unbiased view...
Terry
Sometimes, knowing what's in the public domain may help formulate your questions. I have no idea wether the current AutoRx is exactly the preferred embodiment of the patent, but surely it is close. Have a read. U.S. patent number 6,544,349:
Auto-Rx Patent
[ February 19, 2006, 07:54 PM: Message edited by: 59 Vetteman ]
Auto-Rx Patent
[ February 19, 2006, 07:54 PM: Message edited by: 59 Vetteman ]
looking at the patent, ity looks as this would be an easy formula to analyze. The alcohol half of the esters are given ( 2-ethylhexanol) and the fatty acid analysis should be routine. Has anyone tried this? Can I get in trouble if I actually do this and post my results?
i bet this one gets the girl everytime....
so-- let me get this straight...
LS1... wants to tear apart a formula, that is naturally occuring, who's patent is an application patent, (not a product patent), for the purpose of understanding what it is more so than available by reading the information already available... And by doing so, he will know whether or not it is a good idea to put it in his engine (rather than just reada few thousand posts about people using it here).. ok, i can understand, sortof... he's curious, I like to take things apart too...
Then there's the other half of the problem... Many of us here(including myself), are very apreciative of Frank and his "invention", his cause, his beliefs, and the reasons for implementing it. Frank deserves this, deserves the profits from ARX.. We don't want to see someone "steel" it and make a fortune on someone elses idea... How bout this...
If you want to run your tests, feel free... find out what it is in your own way... but just keep it to yourself and don't post it online. And definetally don't rip it off and start your own "Auto-fix-X" or something. Just be fair about your actions.
LS1... wants to tear apart a formula, that is naturally occuring, who's patent is an application patent, (not a product patent), for the purpose of understanding what it is more so than available by reading the information already available... And by doing so, he will know whether or not it is a good idea to put it in his engine (rather than just reada few thousand posts about people using it here).. ok, i can understand, sortof... he's curious, I like to take things apart too...
Then there's the other half of the problem... Many of us here(including myself), are very apreciative of Frank and his "invention", his cause, his beliefs, and the reasons for implementing it. Frank deserves this, deserves the profits from ARX.. We don't want to see someone "steel" it and make a fortune on someone elses idea... How bout this...
If you want to run your tests, feel free... find out what it is in your own way... but just keep it to yourself and don't post it online. And definetally don't rip it off and start your own "Auto-fix-X" or something. Just be fair about your actions.
Sill question to Framk and the chemists.
At Pep Boys you can purchase a large bottle of Ester Lubricant for vehicle AC systems.
Now I know Ester is nothing more than a term describing a hydrocarbon functional group (-R) meaning the classification has many compounds.
I have now intention of experimenting on this. Would running the A/C Ester lube in the crankase produce an similar effect to ARX ester components?
I have used AutoRX and I am preparing to order another 2 bottles for a new transmission and engine treat cycle.
At Pep Boys you can purchase a large bottle of Ester Lubricant for vehicle AC systems.
Now I know Ester is nothing more than a term describing a hydrocarbon functional group (-R) meaning the classification has many compounds.
I have now intention of experimenting on this. Would running the A/C Ester lube in the crankase produce an similar effect to ARX ester components?
I have used AutoRX and I am preparing to order another 2 bottles for a new transmission and engine treat cycle.
I kind of think it is silly to make a big thing of this! The people truly wanting to try to make a copy of AUto-Rx would not post anything about it on this site! These same people have all the resources to do it given enough time.China and Mexico have a huge problem that Auto-RX could easily solve. Niether China or Mexico are known for honor trade agreements or Patents!
In addition to the patent their is also an article discussing how Auto-Rx was developed based on foundational chemistry of a Nutra Lube product.
I also find it funy that the same people that have no problem tearing German Castrol apart get so protectionistic(sp)of anyone doing the same of AUto-RX. No one is talking about reverse engineering Auto-Rx.
In addition to the patent their is also an article discussing how Auto-Rx was developed based on foundational chemistry of a Nutra Lube product.
I also find it funy that the same people that have no problem tearing German Castrol apart get so protectionistic(sp)of anyone doing the same of AUto-RX. No one is talking about reverse engineering Auto-Rx.
Auto RX worked pretty well on two cars I have used it on. I could care less what's in it as long as it's a product that truly does what it says it does.
Obviously this isn't true of everyone. I have better things to do than backward engineer a patented formulation.
Obviously this isn't true of everyone. I have better things to do than backward engineer a patented formulation.
MolaKule
Staff member
Most of the A/C esters are one of two types, polyglycol ester or polyol ester. The polyglycol ester does not play well with mineral oil or other synthetic soluble additives or bases.
Neither of these esters are additized enough to prevent wear in an engine, so I would NOT use them except to pour in a bottle and tell the kids, "Look, new Space-Age Lubricant!"
[ February 20, 2006, 05:22 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
MolaKule
Staff member
And you wouldn't be the first internet assassin to come onto BITOG.
The bottom line is, the exact components and ratios of compounds of LC, FP, and ARX are Trade Secrets and you are NOT going to be told exactly what is in it, so get over it.
And no one is going to disclose ALL the chemical compounds in VSOT, MMO, SX-UP, Mobil 1, Techron, Amsoil, etc, etc, etc.
What fuel do you use? Let's say it's Shell. Call up Shell and ask them for each component in the gas you use becase you want to know before you add it to your tank.
You bet there is. Put at least $100,000 of your hard earned cash into a chemical or lubrication business and you will learn to be thrifty and careful about giving out data not in the public domain.
Why should should I give away a even a tiny morsel of info to you when it was me (not you) that did the investment, the research, testing, and development of the product.
If you send me $25000/product I will send you a formula for that product. And that's cheap.
[ February 20, 2006, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
If you are that interested in the components of ARX, just take a look at the patent... it's a public document.
FWIW, I've used ARX on a number of vehicles, and all I can tell you is that it works great, and that's good enough for me. With my wife's Explorer, we were getting 12 mpg (all in-town driving), and then after two applications of ARX, we're now routinely getting mid-14's in the same driving. This Explorer now has 116,000 miles on it, and we began the ARX treatment at 110,000 miles.
Sometimes all you need to know is that something works, and just go with that. We're not all on the take, you know!
FWIW, I've used ARX on a number of vehicles, and all I can tell you is that it works great, and that's good enough for me. With my wife's Explorer, we were getting 12 mpg (all in-town driving), and then after two applications of ARX, we're now routinely getting mid-14's in the same driving. This Explorer now has 116,000 miles on it, and we began the ARX treatment at 110,000 miles.
Sometimes all you need to know is that something works, and just go with that. We're not all on the take, you know!
Come on man...its really Jergins lotion isnt it?
You're kidding right?
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