Cold temperature engine warmup question

[kaminski54]

I live in TN in an area with a pretty moderate temperature. I drive a 2010 Nissan Maxima with a 3.5L VQ35DE and use PU 5w-30. From my house, the first few miles are slow going allowing ample warmup for both the engine oil and transmission fluid. The car is also garaged... so no worries there.

From work, it is a whole different story. I work at a hospital with crazy hours. The location is in the mountains and the temperature gets to about 10-20F on some winter mornings. The concern I have is when I get off at say 2 AM... 10F... engine cold and been sitting for a 36 shift. When I leave work, I am literally on an on-ramp accelerating within a quarter mile. There is little to no drive time to warm up the engine or transmission. I find myself babying the car because I feel it is not properly warmed up. Is driving the car at highway speeds (2.25k RPMs) with little to no warm-up in these temperatures detrimental to the engine or transmission? Am I being overly paranoid?

I know WOT with a cold engine is terrible and would never do it... but what about 2,3, or 4k RPM acceleration when cold?

I would appreciate anyone who can provide specific scientific comments such as if the oil filter is in bypass or the flow of oil is dangerously low in my situation described above regarding immediate highway use.

 

[Maximus1966]

Doubt you will find any verifiable "scientific" comments on this site. You already know that you need to give the cold engine and transmission in your car a little warm-up time before you take off for home. There will be some guys here shortly to tell you "they are designed for that" and "all you are doing is wasting precious fuel" and all the other incredible advice we usually hear. Ignore them....they are wrong.

 

[aquariuscsm]

I`d wait till your temp needle begins to move before you drive off.

 

[Zaedock]

You're fine.

Drive away, like millions of Americans do every day in winter (as long as you can see - defrost!).

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Maximus1966
There will be some guys here shortly to tell you "they are designed for that" and "all you are doing is wasting precious fuel" and all the other incredible advice we usually hear. Ignore them....they are wrong.

So, are you suggesting that he sits in the parking lot and idles the car until it comes up to operating temp?

While we don't have proof that just taking off and driving gently when it's 10F outside is going to significantly shorten the car's life, I don't think we have proof to the contrary either. So at this point it's basically "he said, she said." Who are you to say "they are wrong?"

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: kaminski54
Is driving the car at highway speeds (2.25k RPMs) with little to no warm-up in these temperatures detrimental to the engine or transmission?

While it's true that most wear occurs at cold startup, so technically every single startup is a tiny bit detrimental to the life of the car, I wouldn't lose sleep over it. It's a car and it's meant to be driven. Just take it easy on it.

Quote:

Am I being overly paranoid?

Yes.

 

[bullwinkle]

At least you have a good syn in there that should flow well cold, if you could let it run for a couple minutes on the cold nights it would help. I'm not a fan of standing on a cold engine either, I usually drive an extra mile parallel with the interstate before I attempt a cold high speed merge (from home).

 

[morepwr]

If it was me, I would probably let it run for a couple minutes before I started driving. I would not wait for it totally warm up but rather let it start to build a little heat and the fluids to circulate some before driving off.

 

[y_p_w]

I don't believe that lubrication is really the issue with a cold engine. The oil is everywhere it needs to be within seconds, even on a cold day. The whole issue of warming up the engine is that the parts haven't reached their equilibrium where they've expanded to their normal operating range. If you push it when it's cold, any accelerated wear isn't because of inadequate lubrication.

I personally will drive at least once around the parking lot most days. The issue I have is my location where there are cars that will tailgate if I don't accelerate like a rocket. I personally don't like to go faster than about 40 MPH - maybe in 4th gear - until the coolant temp gauge is up to the first line. It's a little bit over that when it's reached the thermostat temp.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Sitting there at idle will help the engine oil temp. Most ATF's are fairly light and flow well at low temps.

Try warming the car for a minute or so and just try to be as gentle as you can while being as safe as you can.

You have a good synthetic in your motor and should be adequate for the temps you mmentioned.

Some auto transmissions have their oil circulate through the bottom portion of the radiator. Some think this is to cool the fluid but it also acts as a warmer too. The warm radiator fluid helps warm the tranny fluid. So warming the car up at idle for a few moments should help warm that fluid. That is why some say wait till the coolant Guage moves. coolant then is getting warm enough to warm the transmission oil. There is a check valve for the atf to flow through the radiator though. If this opens at start up to warm the fluid though I'm not sure. You would think it would??


Jeff

 

[Brent_G]

No need to let it warm up. Start it and clear your windshield if needed, then drive like a sane person and all is well. Unless it is well into the negatives here my cars never idle for longer than 30 seconds or so and I have yet to scrap a car due to engine failure. Trans/rust/car will be long gone before the engine even with this "horrible" cold start.

Within a second oil is flowing to everything and your bearings are floating on a nice oil film. Driving warms everything up much faster and the ECU out of open loop sooner. The issue with hammering on a cold engine is more due to parts have not expanded to correct clearances than lubrication. Driving will safely warm everything up faster, and oil temps as well.

 

[kaminski54]

Yeah... I'm not concerned too much about idling to warm up... I wait about 30 seconds idling in this situation. I believe driving gently warms he engine and transmission much faster than idling. My concern was with the immediate entry to the freeway... no real warmup even through the parking lot. The posts about engine component expansion are what concern me. I feel even if I'm being gentle I am throwing the car right on the highway and heating things too quickly... ie. cast iron crank vs. lead bearings vs. aluminum rods and pistons. It just worries me.

For a quick background on my paranoia. The short block was replaced due to main bearing damage. A warm engine knock developed and the #1 and #4 bearings had damage with some crank scoring. I had about 8000 miles of trouble free engine operation after replacement... now the knock is back. The dealer now says the engine knock is normal even though they replaced the short block for the exact same knock 8 months ago. This is the reason I am trying to gather info on my driving situation and if it could play any role in this.

So you guys wouldn't have a problem accelerating at 3-4k RPMs in these conditions? Redline for this engine is ~6500 RPMs. The engine does have a coolant based oil cooler too, so the oil is heated at about the same rate as the coolant unlike most cars that require a little longer for the oil to match coolant temperature.

 

[901Memphis]

Feel the car out, if it acts poorly give it more idle time. It truly is personal preference but I have a very hard time driving off until my temp needle moves off the stop peg when it's below freezing temperature.

Also very good point about not driving unless you have visibility. My Buick warms up insanely fast luckily I don't have to worry about it. My Taurus on the other hand has a plugged heater core, so it's almost un driveable in the winter.

 

[Brent_G]

Not at all but if you can keep them a bit down it wouldn't hurt. Leaving my gf's I turn straight onto a 75mph highway, which is about 4k rpms in my probe. I do that at least 5 times a week and my car sits for 3-5 hours prior.

The knock is not due to your driving situation, and I cant imagine it being normal. On a cold engine with your driving style the bottom end bearings are the least effected. They ride on a film of oil and the thicker oil only increases that. Most of your wear will be piston/cylinder related.

 

[donnyj08]

i too am very particular about driving on a cold engine. If it is 10 degrees i would likely park close to the doors you exit so you can run out and start the car a couple mins before you leave. I like my cars to idle a few mins in those temps.

Like someone else said feel the car out. Some cars don't really mind the cold as much where others may be more hesitant. I once had a 97 F150 4.6l that just didnt like to respond even to easy throttle in cold winter temps unless it received some idle time. I always felt "held back" until it had some heat in it.

I would start your car and let it run a couple mins and then just keep it under 2500 rpm's for a few miles. that's my recommendation.

 

[rslifkin]

My general rule of thumb is no more than 1/2 throttle or 1/2 way to redline (gentler when possible) until it's good and warm. If it's under 20* or so, I'll let it idle for 30 - 60 seconds before driving just to make sure the fluids good and circulated and the pistons start to take a little heat.

 

[Rick in PA]

I wouldn't sweat it. Just think what cars go through in the northern mid-west states, like Minnesota. Now there's some cold weather. The cars survive. Just don't go screaming off (and it sounds like you don't), you'll be fine.

 

[Cujet]

In the aviation world, it's never permitted to takeoff until the oil temperature is "in the green". That means, a temperature of about 130-140 degrees F.

While modern car engines use thinner oil than aviation engines, the results of high power operation when cold are the same.

In your case, with the nearby on ramp, I'd let the car warm up for enough time to allow the oil to warm some. Clearly, it will perform better.

 

[Smoky14]

Kam: sounds like you have a good feel for your car, so even if you drove off after about a minute you are being sensitive to your cars needs and treating it very well.

Good job
Smoky

 

[gofast182]

I can't imagine there's so much traffic at 2AM you're having to blast down the ramp at WOT? Anyway in my cars they'll start at 1,600RPM and drop down in increments, the next being 1,100. I just wait for that first RPM drop so I know the oil is circulating properly. On most mornings it only takes about 30 seconds (a little more on really cold mornings) so there's not much fuel wasted.