What a lot of folks aren't recognizing is that the era of the high-MPG family car has arrived. The "compacts" of today have just as much room as the "midsize" cars of 4-5 years ago. Families piled into those without many complaints, just like they're doing today with the Cruze and its competitors. Larger cars like the Fusion or Accord are easily topping $30k for the upper level trims. A $25k Cruze that has most of the features found on an $30k Accord EX-L with navigation and gets 42 mpg highway makes a compelling argument for a commuter that can haul the kids to school or get groceries.
Chevy Cruze (Diesel)
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Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Yeah you have a point about the Cruze being almost a midsize of a few years ago. The Chevy Spark and Sonic are closer to compacts or econoboxes of the recent past.
A Cruze gives up 7 cubic feet of passenger space to a 2007 Accord while most dimensions, including weight, are almost identical. Likely those 7 cubes could be recovered by thinner front seats, as the Cruze's front seats are massive beasts.
Yeah you have a point about the Cruze being almost a midsize of a few years ago. The Chevy Spark and Sonic are closer to compacts or econoboxes of the recent past.
A Cruze gives up 7 cubic feet of passenger space to a 2007 Accord while most dimensions, including weight, are almost identical. Likely those 7 cubes could be recovered by thinner front seats, as the Cruze's front seats are massive beasts.
JHZR2
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Originally Posted By: supton
Someday we should split into two sites: bobistheoilguy and bobisthefinancialadviceguy. Threads can exist in two paralleluniverses forums, one where people talk about finance charges and the other where they talk about cars instead.
Right, because a $25k depreciating item in a country with a household income average of $48k or so is in no way a financial decision... Especially given the cost of housing, food, fuel, etc.
Yep, totally unrelated.
A car is only the second biggest (and for many, the biggest) financial decision made in a lifetime.
But let's just ignore that.
And BTW, lifecycle cost, which absolutely has to do with the complexity and content of a vehicle is a direct cross where discussing cars is essential.
Which gets back to my original premise that I don't want a lot of stuff that is going to break just so I can feel fancy.
Someday we should split into two sites: bobistheoilguy and bobisthefinancialadviceguy. Threads can exist in two parallel
Right, because a $25k depreciating item in a country with a household income average of $48k or so is in no way a financial decision... Especially given the cost of housing, food, fuel, etc.
Yep, totally unrelated.
A car is only the second biggest (and for many, the biggest) financial decision made in a lifetime.
But let's just ignore that.
And BTW, lifecycle cost, which absolutely has to do with the complexity and content of a vehicle is a direct cross where discussing cars is essential.
Which gets back to my original premise that I don't want a lot of stuff that is going to break just so I can feel fancy.
I think the Cruze is a great car (rented the LTZ for a week / 700 miles) and its waaaaaay better than I thought it would be. The Diesel Cruze will be a failure.
Not too many Americans want a diesel car.
Not too many Americans want a diesel car.
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
I think the Cruze is a great car (rented the LTZ for a week / 700 miles) and its waaaaaay better than I thought it would be. The Diesel Cruze will be a failure.
Not too many Americans want a diesel car.
The few folks who do want diesel cars are almost rabidly fanatic about diesel. I believe GM's going after those enthusiasts, just like they pretty successfully went after folks looking for a high-MPG fun to drive car with the Eco manual transmission.
If enough folks buy it and clamor for more, they'll put diesel into more Cruzes. It happened once already with manual transmissions spreading from the base LS and fuel-sipper Eco to the 1LT and 2LT trims since there was a demand for manuals that the suits didn't think was there. Now there are a fair number of 1/2LT manual transmission cars running around. A family I know just purchased a 1LT manual transmission Cruze as a commuter/family car. We'll see if lightning strikes twice.
I think the Cruze is a great car (rented the LTZ for a week / 700 miles) and its waaaaaay better than I thought it would be. The Diesel Cruze will be a failure.
Not too many Americans want a diesel car.
The few folks who do want diesel cars are almost rabidly fanatic about diesel. I believe GM's going after those enthusiasts, just like they pretty successfully went after folks looking for a high-MPG fun to drive car with the Eco manual transmission.
If enough folks buy it and clamor for more, they'll put diesel into more Cruzes. It happened once already with manual transmissions spreading from the base LS and fuel-sipper Eco to the 1LT and 2LT trims since there was a demand for manuals that the suits didn't think was there. Now there are a fair number of 1/2LT manual transmission cars running around. A family I know just purchased a 1LT manual transmission Cruze as a commuter/family car. We'll see if lightning strikes twice.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: supton
I lost 25% of my house's value. Maybe we should tell people to not buy property too now. It's the biggest debt one (typically) undertakes.
If you don't understand the difference between real property and depreciating assets, I feel sorry for you.
Im guessing that it is sarcasm, but is such a silly attempt that it's just sad.
There is no comparison here.
I lost 25% of my house's value. Maybe we should tell people to not buy property too now. It's the biggest debt one (typically) undertakes.
If you don't understand the difference between real property and depreciating assets, I feel sorry for you.
Im guessing that it is sarcasm, but is such a silly attempt that it's just sad.
There is no comparison here.
JHZR2,
Are you sure the average household income is $48,000 ?
That seems kind of low for 2013.
Are you sure the average household income is $48,000 ?
That seems kind of low for 2013.
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
JHZR2,
Are you sure the average household income is $48,000 ?
That seems kind of low for 2013.
Certainly NOT in NJ, that is for sure! There is a topic discussing the median household income per state in the General Topics.
JHZR2,
Are you sure the average household income is $48,000 ?
That seems kind of low for 2013.
Certainly NOT in NJ, that is for sure! There is a topic discussing the median household income per state in the General Topics.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: supton
I lost 25% of my house's value. Maybe we should tell people to not buy property too now. It's the biggest debt one (typically) undertakes.
If you don't understand the difference between real property and depreciating assets, I feel sorry for you.
Im guessing that it is sarcasm, but is such a silly attempt that it's just sad.
There is no comparison here.
I don't understand. Everyone used to say, buy property, it doesn't depreciate. But it clearly has for the last few years. Not only that, but I'm still paying interest on the bank note. I take it that I'm a fool for having a mortgage on something I clearly couldn't afford, since I didn't pay cash, right?
Cars and houses depreciate over time. Land might rise in value, since it's not being made anymore; but houses depreciate. [Roofs wear out, furnaces wear out, flooring wears out, carpet wears out, etc.] Houses cost more than cars. So I was wrong to say "property" when I should have said "houses". But I'm not that bright to understand the difference between property and assets and depreciating assets and appreciating assets, so now I'll have to go look it up I guess.
Originally Posted By: supton
I lost 25% of my house's value. Maybe we should tell people to not buy property too now. It's the biggest debt one (typically) undertakes.
If you don't understand the difference between real property and depreciating assets, I feel sorry for you.
Im guessing that it is sarcasm, but is such a silly attempt that it's just sad.
There is no comparison here.
I don't understand. Everyone used to say, buy property, it doesn't depreciate. But it clearly has for the last few years. Not only that, but I'm still paying interest on the bank note. I take it that I'm a fool for having a mortgage on something I clearly couldn't afford, since I didn't pay cash, right?
Cars and houses depreciate over time. Land might rise in value, since it's not being made anymore; but houses depreciate. [Roofs wear out, furnaces wear out, flooring wears out, carpet wears out, etc.] Houses cost more than cars. So I was wrong to say "property" when I should have said "houses". But I'm not that bright to understand the difference between property and assets and depreciating assets and appreciating assets, so now I'll have to go look it up I guess.
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Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: supton
I lost 25% of my house's value. Maybe we should tell people to not buy property too now. It's the biggest debt one (typically) undertakes.
If you don't understand the difference between real property and depreciating assets, I feel sorry for you.
Im guessing that it is sarcasm, but is such a silly attempt that it's just sad.
There is no comparison here.
I don't understand. Everyone used to say, buy property, it doesn't depreciate. But it clearly has for the last few years. Not only that, but I'm still paying interest on the bank note. I take it that I'm a fool for having a mortgage on something I clearly couldn't afford, since I didn't pay cash, right?
Cars and houses depreciate over time. Land might rise in value, since it's not being made anymore; but houses depreciate. [Roofs wear out, furnaces wear out, flooring wears out, carpet wears out, etc.] Houses cost more than cars. So I was wrong to say "property" when I should have said "houses". But I'm not that bright to understand the difference between property and assets and depreciating assets and appreciating assets, so now I'll have to go look it up I guess.
Houses certainly appreciate in value. Maybe in a depressed housing market that is not the case, but my house has gone up $50,000 in value in the last 6 years. As a general rule of thumb, real estate is something that you'll make money on.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: supton
I lost 25% of my house's value. Maybe we should tell people to not buy property too now. It's the biggest debt one (typically) undertakes.
If you don't understand the difference between real property and depreciating assets, I feel sorry for you.
Im guessing that it is sarcasm, but is such a silly attempt that it's just sad.
There is no comparison here.
I don't understand. Everyone used to say, buy property, it doesn't depreciate. But it clearly has for the last few years. Not only that, but I'm still paying interest on the bank note. I take it that I'm a fool for having a mortgage on something I clearly couldn't afford, since I didn't pay cash, right?
Cars and houses depreciate over time. Land might rise in value, since it's not being made anymore; but houses depreciate. [Roofs wear out, furnaces wear out, flooring wears out, carpet wears out, etc.] Houses cost more than cars. So I was wrong to say "property" when I should have said "houses". But I'm not that bright to understand the difference between property and assets and depreciating assets and appreciating assets, so now I'll have to go look it up I guess.
Houses certainly appreciate in value. Maybe in a depressed housing market that is not the case, but my house has gone up $50,000 in value in the last 6 years. As a general rule of thumb, real estate is something that you'll make money on.
Someday, mine might. Right now I'm hard pressed to spend money on improvements, above and beyond what is necessary. But it fits in with a trend in my life where everything I've owned depreciates in value. However, I've been content with that, as not everything can be measured in dollars: I could live in a van down by the river, or in a tent in the woods, but renting is far nicer. Toting a bank loan on a house is better still. Even if I go back to renting it'll have been nice "owning" a house.
Same with cars. All cars drop in value, unless if you pick some exotic. The benefits usually outweigh the monetary value. But those benefits which can't be measured in dollars are hard to argue about, since they become so individual-specific.
Same with cars. All cars drop in value, unless if you pick some exotic. The benefits usually outweigh the monetary value. But those benefits which can't be measured in dollars are hard to argue about, since they become so individual-specific.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
JHZR2,
Are you sure the average household income is $48,000 ?
That seems kind of low for 2013.
Sorry, maybe a bit north of $50k.
http://money.cnn.com/2012/09/12/news/economy/median-income-poverty/index.html
JHZR2,
Are you sure the average household income is $48,000 ?
That seems kind of low for 2013.
Sorry, maybe a bit north of $50k.
http://money.cnn.com/2012/09/12/news/economy/median-income-poverty/index.html
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