Cheap residential builders!!! grrr.

[zzyzzx]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
I think that "engineered wood" that they use is far far worse. I will only accept real plywood.


I have used OSB and OSB T&G flooring for years, its more or less industry standard.


Just because something is standard, doesn't mean that it's any good.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
UGH...Gated Community = packed in houses, narrow streets, no parking. Do you all have the same thing? Builders can pack in more houses when they create a gated community because the streets can be narrower.

New community finally opened up so we took a look at it. GD Gates!!!


http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/16-Bluff-Pt-Westport-CT-06880/57414215_zpid/
IDK I think I could suffer, even work around the speed bumps most wealthy neighborhoods have installed. Its near the boat club as well.

BTW what your talking about is a PUD or PRD, very different than a normal neighborhood. Think of them like detached condo's. Also very rare in my area and very common in areas with endless supplies of land, ie FL. The Villages is probably the biggest one in the country.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
I think that "engineered wood" that they use is far far worse. I will only accept real plywood.


I have used OSB and OSB T&G flooring for years, its more or less industry standard.


Just because something is standard, doesn't mean that it's any good.


Doesn't mean its bad either.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
UGH...Gated Community = packed in houses, narrow streets, no parking. Do you all have the same thing? Builders can pack in more houses when they create a gated community because the streets can be narrower.

New community finally opened up so we took a look at it. GD Gates!!!


http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/16-Bluff-Pt-Westport-CT-06880/57414215_zpid/
IDK I think I could suffer, even work around the speed bumps most wealthy neighborhoods have installed. Its near the boat club as well.

BTW what your talking about is a PUD or PRD, very different than a normal neighborhood. Think of them like detached condo's. Also very rare in my area and very common in areas with endless supplies of land, ie FL. The Villages is probably the biggest one in the country.


PUD (Planned Unit Development). They can be either single family attached / detached or Town house. Typically they're in a gated (guard/ no guard) community and the homeowners pay a monthly fee to the HOA. I think up north I think the legal description will say PRD in some cases.

The Villages is huge. Been there.


As for OSB, yes it's accepted nationwide but in the S.E. US it really shouldn't be used because of our humidity levels, The humidity causes it to swell and it'll have more deflection than plywood. In the Southeast builders typically use it for sub flooring, roof decking, and exterior walls (with and without house wrap) . I typically see it on homes under $700k or maybe even $1M.

 

[hatt]

If you don't want OSB I'm sure your builder will use whatever you want to pay for. They'll also install a vented hood. People want premium features and materials but want to pay Chinese drywall prices for them. Not happening.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Actually, I would expect that many builders would happily take the extra money for real plywood...then install cheap OSB and pocket the difference!

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Actually, I would expect that many builders would happily take the extra money for real plywood...then install cheap OSB and pocket the difference!
Sure, if a blind man is having the house built.

Edit. Who unfortunately also can't touch and feel anything. Poor guy.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: hatt
If you don't want OSB I'm sure your builder will use whatever you want to pay for. They'll also install a vented hood. People want premium features and materials but want to pay Chinese drywall prices for them. Not happening.


Typical home buyers want everything for free.

Everyone wants a Mercedes on a Chevy budget.

Also to be honest the average home buyer doesn't know the difference, we are in the internet generation after all.

I build and sell 5-8 homes a year and I have never had anyone ask for and be willing to pay for plywood.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
One of the many reasons I'll never buy a brand new house. Ex gf of mine just had this multi hundred thousand dollar house built by one of those "custom home builders" and imo it's nothing more than a cheap apartment. Has no yard,is an inch away from the houses next to it,and looks like clones of all the other houses on the block. The entire neighborhood looks like a huge apartment complex,and as a matter of fact,the inside and outside looks identical to an apartment I lived in a few years back.

I prefer Art Deco style houses from the 1950s-1970s. These brand new houses have no "soul".



And they seem to fall apart in a few years. We had some developments pop up recently (not sure how, we have no economy). Nice looking homes. Of course, they are all cookie cutter homes. But 10 years later they are all falling apart.

I wouldn't want to spend $200K on a house - especially around here where $100 gets you a nice one - and have it fall apart in a few years.

 

[hatt]

Pretty much everyone wants something for nothing these days. We constantly complain about cheap Chinese [censored] but a high quality version is almost always available. We just don't want to spend the $$$ to buy the quality version.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: Miller88



And they seem to fall apart in a few years. We had some developments pop up recently (not sure how, we have no economy). Nice looking homes. Of course, they are all cookie cutter homes. But 10 years later they are all falling apart.

I wouldn't want to spend $200K on a house - especially around here where $100 gets you a nice one - and have it fall apart in a few years.
Any house will fall apart without proper maintenance.

 

[hattaresguy]

Houses don't last forever if you don't maintain them, shocking I know. A lot of my buyers expect them to be maintenance free and perfect forever.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Houses don't last forever if you don't maintain them, shocking I know. A lot of my buyers expect them to be maintenance free and perfect forever.




Agreed; my parents built the house I now live in back in 1974, using one of the most highly regarded builders in the region. I don't ever plan to sell the house and property(unless someone offers me an obscene amount of money), and as a result I have never cut corners on maintenance.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
One of the many reasons I'll never buy a brand new house. Ex gf of mine just had this multi hundred thousand dollar house built by one of those "custom home builders" and imo it's nothing more than a cheap apartment. Has no yard,is an inch away from the houses next to it,and looks like clones of all the other houses on the block. The entire neighborhood looks like a huge apartment complex,and as a matter of fact,the inside and outside looks identical to an apartment I lived in a few years back.

I prefer Art Deco style houses from the 1950s-1970s. These brand new houses have no "soul".



And they seem to fall apart in a few years. We had some developments pop up recently (not sure how, we have no economy). Nice looking homes. Of course, they are all cookie cutter homes. But 10 years later they are all falling apart.

I wouldn't want to spend $200K on a house - especially around here where $100 gets you a nice one - and have it fall apart in a few years.


I totally agree with you Miller. Her house for instance,yeah it looks really flashy and fancy,but it's made of out the cheapest flimsiest apartment grade sheetrock you've ever seen and cheap wanna be fake wood veneer everywhere. It's like when you open and close the door you want to be careful that you don't rip it off its hinges,or lean against a wall because you might fall through it. And they tried to make it look like a mini castle for some reason (I just don't understand that kindve architecture). Then there's my dads house which was built in the 1950s,solid stock wood everywhere,real brick instead of that faux brick on top of sheetrock junk,and a HUGE yard instead of the next door neighbor's house being a millimeter away from it.

Old houses will outlive anything made presently. That's why they continue to go up in value and are so desirable.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Houses don't last forever if you don't maintain them, shocking I know. A lot of my buyers expect them to be maintenance free and perfect forever.



I think its more stuff like using the cheapest windows/ vinyl siding/shingles/flooring/trim available. You can't "maintain" your saggy faded siding back to something looking half decent.
Now buyers should know better of course and demand quality building materials, but probably many of them were sold on a new place so they don't have to worry about fixing up an older place.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: hatt
If you don't want OSB I'm sure your builder will use whatever you want to pay for. They'll also install a vented hood. People want premium features and materials but want to pay Chinese drywall prices for them. Not happening.


Typical home buyers want everything for free.

Everyone wants a Mercedes on a Chevy budget.

Also to be honest the average home buyer doesn't know the difference, we are in the internet generation after all.

I build and sell 5-8 homes a year and I have never had anyone ask for and be willing to pay for plywood.

Perhaps but when I know a builder is making about 30 percent and then has the audacity to think I'll pay an extra 20 percent for plywood that tells me he's being lazy.

A question. Have you seen 2x4's that were comprised of ~2 foot sections glued end to end to form whatever length you needed for framing? The ends have a jagged saw tooth appearance and they mesh together. About 2 yrs ago a builder was using this product to frame his "luxury homes".

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Houses don't last forever if you don't maintain them, shocking I know. A lot of my buyers expect them to be maintenance free and perfect forever.



I think its more stuff like using the cheapest windows/ vinyl siding/shingles/flooring/trim available. You can't "maintain" your saggy faded siding back to something looking half decent.
Now buyers should know better of course and demand quality building materials, but probably many of them were sold on a new place so they don't have to worry about fixing up an older place.


Thankfully cement board siding and decent windows are the norm in my area. Vinyl is rarely used anymore if only on the least expensive starter homes.

 

[Lapham3]

I built my last home in 1989 myself as it was a 'normal' sized home of the 'old days'=1800 sq/ft + same basement. No builders were interested in something so small-even then=not enough profit. Today,in my area,the only new homes are $750k and up. They are huge homes, but not built as well as mine. I upgraded my poured basement walls, truss spacing, plywood siding underlayment, roof deck thickness, ect. The new homes still have 1/2" roof deck and builtrite/buffaloboard under the siding, ect. My recent peeve are the stick built 5 story apartment/condos going up=firetraps and cheaply built=not to last. Some goof with a barby on the wood deck mangages to burn the roof off one these regularly.

 

[rjundi]

I have found the parts of my home built originally in 1910 are significantly much higher quality then the addition placed on in 1965. Interestingly the "insulation" is better in the 1910 portion (balloon construction) of home vs the batt used in newer construction with 2x4.

Each solid door in my 1910 home which is fir and has elaborate trim that cost nearly $350 to reproduce in materials in a tiny pantry door where we found empty space in wall during a kitchen reno.

Modern homes still look cheap unless fine craftsmen do the work and they are enamoured by what was done in my home. Sadly the outside was vinyl covered so no idea what it looked like in its "glory" here.

Btw I also had a cheap microwave before kitchen reno that vented back into home and made the old cabinets so greasy and gross and not cleanable. If you cook having an outside vent (microwave or vent) is critical which we gained in a kitchen reno.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: hatt
If you don't want OSB I'm sure your builder will use whatever you want to pay for. They'll also install a vented hood. People want premium features and materials but want to pay Chinese drywall prices for them. Not happening.


Typical home buyers want everything for free.

Everyone wants a Mercedes on a Chevy budget.

Also to be honest the average home buyer doesn't know the difference, we are in the internet generation after all.

I build and sell 5-8 homes a year and I have never had anyone ask for and be willing to pay for plywood.

Perhaps but when I know a builder is making about 30 percent and then has the audacity to think I'll pay an extra 20 percent for plywood that tells me he's being lazy.

A question. Have you seen 2x4's that were comprised of ~2 foot sections glued end to end to form whatever length you needed for framing? The ends have a jagged saw tooth appearance and they mesh together. About 2 yrs ago a builder was using this product to frame his "luxury homes".


No, we have not used 2x4 framing in houses in about 7 years now. Can't easily meet the new insulation codes with 2x4's, need the extra space 2x6 provides.


Having looked at a number of sub divisions down south I'm less than impressed. But than again when you buy a new house for $149k or in some cases $99k that's what you get. They have to meet the same codes I do, so their margins get squeezed and they build poorly as a result. The equivalent of a $99k house in my area is $325k.