CAM 2 SUPER HD 15W40 SYN BLEND CK-4/SN?

[MSCH]

In fairness, there are guys* on this forum, with PhDs in chemistry, who formulate oil for a living. This is their area of expertise.

That’s not “baffling” with anything, except a deep understanding of the subject. If you’re not keeping up, if you’re feeling “beat down” - that doesn’t make them wrong. It just means you’re not keeping up. Relax. Read. Maybe learn a bit from them.


Agree to disagree?

On what?

If you told me something that was scientifically inaccurate, you don’t get to say, “agree to disagree”. There aren’t multiple “truths” on some topics.

So, no, I won’t “agree to disagree” on a basic understanding of how something works. And, neither should those experts in the field, many of whom have posted on the thread, who are explaining how things actually work.

“Agree to disagree” doesn’t apply here. That’s a settlement for an argument in which there are two equally valid points.

But in the area of technical understanding, of science, in this case, there aren’t multiple valid points. There’s only one right answer.

*I am not among them. I fly airplanes for a living. But I do have a bit of background in Astrophysics, so I speak just a bit of science…and I will argue when someone is wrong on a topic with which I am familiar.

Astro, thats where sometimes people with too much knowledge go astray..
it is their approach
start to sound like ministers in a church
instead of throwing the facts out there, those ministers give people the impression the other person is going to hell
When maybe just maybe throwing the facts out there is really enough
non believers won't change or maybe they will change slowly..

Like me, I know enough about the subject to know a difference makes very little difference.

except to the ministers.

 

[tchapps88]

Astro, thats where sometimes people with too much knowledge go astray..
it is their approach
start to sound like ministers in a church
instead of throwing the facts out there, those ministers give people the impression the other person is going to hell
When maybe just maybe throwing the facts out there is really enough
non believers won't change or maybe they will change slowly..

Like me, I know enough about the subject to know a difference makes very little difference.

except to the ministers.

Bingo. Lot of Sheldon Coopers here. Super smart but have no people skills. In the end the main buyers of diesel oils (the reason I need 4 drums a month) are headset, sweatpant and hey dude wearing asphalt cowboys.

 

[MSCH]

Bingo. Lot of Sheldon Coopers here. Super smart but have no people skills. In the end the main buyers of diesel oils (the reason I need 4 drums a month) are headset, sweatpant and hey dude wearing asphalt cowboys.

yep, and like I offered Delvac at bargain prices at Walliemart.
but you have your own stated reasons for something else
and that is good enough for me..

so did you get the Cam 2 or did you get the more expensive stuff.?

 

[tchapps88]

it got cleared up just yesterday, was about to order from that place but decided to call my local guy and give him the courtesy of telling him I was switching and thats when he looked into it and realized a mistake was made last invoice. Still a $120 more than that cam2 but also he buys parts and gets service work done here so as the saying goes "Feed those who feed you"

 

[Astro14]

Again, in fairness, those same guys* often recommend simple/easy solutions.

For example: follow the owners manual, or, use oil that meets specifications, or, my favorite, Mobil 1 0W40 is a really good oil for the price, better than it should be.

The conflicts arise when people overthink the problem, and then post things that are not true.

Really, that’s what happened in this thread. It started out as “is this oil any good”.

It went sideways when significance was ascribed to VOA numbers, and a statement was made about Delvac 1300 being “way down on anti-wears” compared with others.

The whole rest of the thread is a discussion on why that statement is simply untrue. The Delvac 1300 is not a bad oil. You cannot base your judgment of the oil on those numbers. We explained why that that methodology is flawed.

We never really answered the question of what oil the original poster should get. We instead focused on the limitations of spectrographic analysis. A focus that was brought on by that claim about being “way down“.

So, in typical social media fashion, or in the way that human conversations often progress, the original topic got completely lost.

If we were to circle back to the original question, the CAM2 is fine. But in his case, where availability is a real issue and he’s buying a 55 gallon drum, I think I would simply say, buy a certified oil that you can get easily at a decent price. That’s the KISS answer.

Now, that’s my recommendation, as a practical matter. Most of the oils out there are pretty good. The OP has an availability problem because of where he lives. We still don’t know what he needs the oil for, which might shape the answer further.

But if I were in his position, and I admit I’m willing to try something new, I would go with HPL, extend the drain, and, yes using analysis to see how the oil is holding up, and save money on oil across my fleet.

There are many large entities have done exactly that, been able to more than double the oil drain interval, backed up by analysis, and experience across thousands of vehicles, and they end up saving money because they have less downtime, and the cost per hour for an oil that lasts twice as long is lower than using the cheap stuff that has to be changed more frequently.

Something to consider.


*Again, Not me. I know a bit about oil, a bit about a lot of things, but this isn’t my area of genuine expertise. I’m talking about the real oil experts on here, especially the ones who work in the industry formulating oil.

 

[MSCH]

it got cleared up just yesterday, was about to order from that place but decided to call my local guy and give him the courtesy of telling him I was switching and thats when he looked into it and realized a mistake was made last invoice. Still a $120 more than that cam2 but also he buys parts and gets service work done here so as the saying goes "Feed those who feed you"

, the beauty of competition.

 

[bbhero]

Astro, thats where sometimes people with too much knowledge go astray..
it is their approach
start to sound like ministers in a church
instead of throwing the facts out there, those ministers give people the impression the other person is going to hell
When maybe just maybe throwing the facts out there is really enough
non believers won't change or maybe they will change slowly..

Like me, I know enough about the subject to know a difference makes very little difference.

except to the ministers.

There are times where there is only ONE right or correct answer.

Just like giving someone with a very complicated blood circumstance where that individual needed a very, very specific type of blood to be given or that individual would have had a bad adverse reaction to it being given to that person. I had a circumstance just like that were not just the blood type but a high number of other factors like 8 or 9 of them had to be perfectly in line for that person to be safely transfused blood.

There was only 1 right answer on that circumstance. We had to specify and special order that typed and crossed blood with those additional 8 or 9 factors from a very large blood bank 30 miles away.

Which means it was a very, very, very rare occurrence and only had one right answer to it.

When it come to chemistry… The same occurrence can happen too.

You can have a compound with the same exact number of basic elements like say O, C, H and N etc etc … But how those elements are bonded together can make a HUGE difference to how a person reacts to that compound. It has to be the right formulation and how those elements are bonded together in the exact right places and patterns or…. It can just as easily really hurt or kill someone.

Added together results from a very cheap $30 voa analysis is not the way to go about getting a right answer.

I will say that the Cam2 HD oil would definitely be a very good oil to run. I have used a lot of Cam2 in the last 5 years in my Nissan Altima VQ and the Honda I have now.

 

[MSCH]

There are times where there is only ONE right or correct answer.

but this isn't one of them.

 

[bbhero]

but this isn't one of them.

You are certainly right that once an oil formulation meets certain standards and has certain approvals and specificationss then it doesn’t really matter a whole, whole lot.

I agree with you about that aspect.

However what the other guys were stating earlier in this thread was actually the only right answer in regards to the subject matter at that point in this thread.

Those guys were all exactly right about that and there was only ONE CORRECT answer in that part of the discussion.

I would not want anyone like you administering blood that is extremely specific or formulating pharmaceuticals….

Someone with your way of thinking about those aspects would get people killed… Because there area number of instances in REAL science applications where there is only ONE right answer.

Not based on “ feelings” or error riddled computer model based “answers “.

 

[tchapps88]

Idk if you can even trust the people at hospitals any more though lol, seems like the big health care networks around me spend more on the landscaping out front to put on calendars and facebook than the people and equipment inside.

 

[bbhero]

Idk if you can even trust the people at hospitals any more though lol, seems like the big health care networks around me spend more on the landscaping out front to put on calendars and facebook than the people and equipment inside.

And I don’t disagree with you here….

I have seen a number of bad things happen at times.

When I was a student we had to watch a 40 minute video where a hospital was giving a child a blood thinner. Well they were off by 1 decimal point and the drug was 10 times stronger than it should have been. The very young toddler died because of that over dosage of that medication.

Instead of the family seeking massive money from the hospital they made them make that very well done in depth video about that circumstance

It was genuinely very, very, very rough to watch that

 

[bbhero]

Huh?

API and vendor certs verify quality. Case in point, look up the Shell ads from a few years back claiming that Delvac 1300 didn’t meet API CK-4. It even included data IIRC related to oxidation and viscosity control. They were essentially saying that the product didn’t meet the spec API licenses. While the claim was likely false, it’s an interesting case in how API testing validates quality by performance test metrics.

Shell vs Delvac

Hi everyone, Just saw this on Rotella's website. Shell is showing testing that Mobil Delvac 1300 doesn't pass the Volvo T-13 testing. I am a little surprised that the Delvac doesn't pass. I use the ESP Delvac 1 5W-40 and the Mobil 1 TDT, am have been happy with their performance. Thoughts...

bobistheoilguy.com

Quality can mean a few things though. The common “knob” to turn is basestock. Often the specs require some level of performance and don’t differentiate if something outperforms. So one oil with some basestock that is say more oxidation resistant, won’t meet a different or “better” spec. That said, it may not deliver more longevity or wear control either!

So there can be differences in performance, there can be differentiators even with consistent specs met. Price deltas aren’t just advertising or jobber profit. But quantifying them statistically is next to impossible outside of large fleets.

But adding additive ppm is not valid.

And discussing the merits and attempting to find what is “best” based upon objective metrics is not BS. If you think it is, I’m not sure why you’re here?

And before this part and including this section of which I’m writing about…

Those guys were right in what they kept stating.

 

[JHZR2]

And before this part and including this section of which I’m writing about…

Those guys were right in what they kept stating.

I’m not clear on the point you’re trying to make here.

 

[MSCH]

I would not want anyone like you administering blood that is extremely specific or formulating pharmaceuticals….

that is why I don't administer blood.. or work in an office environment..
but it is why I repaired/rebuilt/tested diesel engines and related equipment for 42 years.
Diesel engine's dont have feelings, they dont care if you tell them they are a POS and they always talked to me.
I knew what they were saying...
most diesel engine's would tell you they dont care what is in them as long as they have something slippery in the crankcase.

 

[4WD]

that is why I don't administer blood.. or work in an office environment..
but it is why I repaired/rebuilt/tested diesel engines and related equipment for 42 years.
Diesel engine's dont have feelings, they dont care if you tell them they are a POS and they always talked to me.
I knew what they were saying...
most diesel engine's would tell you they dont care what is in them as long as they have something slippery in the crankcase.

Well, than you might have used CAT oil … that’s Mobil … or owned a DMax pickup … that’s FF with Mobil Delvac …
Will soon see a big 100 (years) on the label …

 

[addyguy]

I’m glad you have a supplier that is willing to listen to you and work with you, rare in today’s business world!
If operating costs get bad, and price become the only consideration, then the Sinopec 15w-40 will probably be your best choice.
I bet there are a lot of rigs/equipment running on that in todays runaway cost environment.