Caliper slide pin issue, please advise

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Klutch9

Klutch9

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So yesterday I finished replacing all rotors and pads on the Fusion. During the process, I found it disturbing that more than half of the slide pins were nearly seized! Now, this car is less than 5 years old and has 51,000 miles on it. It had some of the weirdest pad and rotor wear I've ever seen... maybe this is why. As with many vehicles, this car has different slide pins in the back than in the front. The rear has one solid metal pin, and one pin with a rubber sleeve near the bottom. The fronts have rubber sleeves on both pins. What is strange is that on most of the pins that had rubber sleeves, the rubber sleeves were what was seizing the pin, not corrosion or lack of lube. Upon close inspection, the rubber was trying to work its way up or down the pin during movement, binding everything up. On a 5 year old car? Insane! The rubber sleeves have either stretched, or swelled, but the grease on the pins is rubber-safe, so I don't see that being the issue.

So what I did, after some research, is remove all the rubber sleeves, period. My research told me that these sleeves are for (probably) sound/vibration deadening and possibly to relieve some minor slop in the movement, if any. Others seem to have had success doing this as well. I noticed upon reinstallation that any slop in the pins was about the same with as without those rubber sleeves. Everything was relubed with brake grease safe for rubber/plastic parts, and the new brakes are working great without a peep. This is what the pins look like. The one on the left is all metal per OE, and the one on the right is the pin without the sleeve, as I have it installed. Picture the pin on the right with a rubber sleeve in the indent towards the bottom; that's how they were originally.



One side of me wants to replace all of the sleeves with new ones, but who's to say this won't happen again?
 
rubber sleeve on guide pin screw seizing up is normally due to wrong type of lube used: i.e. rubber sleeve becomes swollen inside the guide pin bore.

While I cannot tell you precisely what the rubber sleeve is for RE: in the guide pin itself, I think you are quite close to your guessing RE: to eliminate any slop or shifting of the caliper and pad under certain braking conditions.

I must tell you though: I have been servicing/rebuilding Aisin and Nissin calipers on Toy and Honda for over a decade now, and most of those single piston caliper configuration, their guide pins do come with rubber bushing on their end. Assuming that the piston dust seal(accordian boot) is not ripped nor swollen and no piston to bore seal leaks, etc. I'd typically refresh all the guide pin bushings and guide pin rubber sleeves once between 150k to 200k, and none of them have swollen on me when using Syl-glide exclusively as the sole form of guide pin lubricant.

(* I tend to use a lot of Carson caliper kits for doing these kinds of jobs*)

Syl-Glide has not failed me one single bit, but some brake pad lube that claimed rubber "friendly" has failed me twice already, causing rubber swelling and such (including that famous Permatex ceramic syn brake caliper lube that is purple in colour).

Q.
 
If the rubber boots have deteriorated, it's either due to an incompatible lube or poor quality of the boot. I'd ask the dealer if there are known problems with the boots. Then I would install new OEM boots and iistall the pins with a proper lubricant. Then hope or pray.
 
The boots themselves are in great shape. Very supple and no cracks. The lube on the pins is a combo of whatever was on there from the factory, along with some CRC moly/graphite/ptfe lube that states it is safe for rubber and plastic.
 
It's wierd that a 5 year old car is even getting brakes, to me. And if it did it got beyond a "pad slap" without attention to said pins.
 
51,000 on original brakes is not unreasonable. Really depends on driver habits and type of driving. I know people/cars that get 15k out of a set of brakes and I have gotten 140k mi. on my Rabbit diesel and the brakes were only replaced because the rotors were rusted. I would replace with oem type hardware, proper lubrication and good pads and rotors.
 
Originally Posted By: Klutch9
The boots themselves are in great shape. Very supple and no cracks. The lube on the pins is a combo of whatever was on there from the factory, along with some CRC moly/graphite/ptfe lube that states it is safe for rubber and plastic.


We are talking about tje slide pin rubber guide/bushing? Maybe the two lubes made for a rubber damaging combo. I would clean off any old lube from all parts before lubing and assembling, whether I use the same or a different lube, just to make sure I have removed any old lube comtaining abrasive grit and dirt.
 
I had the same exact problem on my old Caravan calipers. One pin with the rubber bushing would seem to seize. This happened after the first brake job and using one of the new "miracle" brake lubes. I now only use Silglyde or "real" silicone lube.

I think that some brands of brakes are sensitive to even the proclaimed rubber safe lubes. We had a discussion here about some people having trouble with Toyota (I think) brake rubber swelling with many of the over the counter brake lubes.

05.jpg


I also learned that some aftermarket pin replacements fit better (looser) than others. At the time, I compared NAPA vs. Car Quest and one definitely had a more relaxed fit.

Here's the Toyota swelling brake rubber thread: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1863200#Post1863200
 
Yep same issue on the front calipers on my 02 Silverado. Except the rubber bushing sits inside the bracket bore and the rubber swelled when I used CRC's Black brake grease when I replaced the caliper hardware. I was wondering why the rotor and caliper felt seized up and it was a PITA to remove the swelled up bushings in the bore. Left them off and just crank the radio up when the front end made a lot of noise.
 
Originally Posted By: wirelessF
Yep same issue on the front calipers on my 02 Silverado. Except the rubber bushing sits inside the bracket bore and the rubber swelled when I used CRC's Black brake grease when I replaced the caliper hardware. I was wondering why the rotor and caliper felt seized up and it was a PITA to remove the swelled up bushings in the bore. Left them off and just crank the radio up when the front end made a lot of noise.


That is the same grease I used. Dang! The problem is, it's going to be nearly impossible to completely remove all residue of the stuff, since the pin bore is so narrow and deep. I think I'm just going to leave it as is, since others have done so with success. I also have no noise issue (yet) so all seems to be well.
 
Originally Posted By: Klutch9
That is the same grease I used. Dang! The problem is, it's going to be nearly impossible to completely remove all residue of the stuff, since the pin bore is so narrow and deep. I think I'm just going to leave it as is, since others have done so with success. I also have no noise issue (yet) so all seems to be well.


Can't you clean out the bore with spray solvent and Q-tips?
 
Originally Posted By: edwardh1
what does toyota say to use?

Their own red rubber grease, it's actually reasonably priced. I've used Syl-Glyde with no problems as well.
 
on front toyota caliper slide pins
-does the slide pin with the rubber bushing go on the bottom slide pin or the top slide pin
- can they be put in "swapped"
and
-why do some forums say to leave the rubber bushing off (dont use them at all)
 
To me, 5yrs is a good solid run.

I've had odd pad/rotor wear and warped rotors in as little as 3yrs/36K miles on some vehicles I've owned. Domestic and import.

I've typically found what you describe. Swollen rubber parts, seized pins, slides, junked up contact points, etc..

The only way I could get anything close to 5yrs is by taking the brakes apart periodically for a clean and re-lube. Curse of the rust belt.
 
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I put the brake lube into my Maxima pins and the swelling did happen to me, I had to get the sleeves from stealership paying a premium


hope this product could be sold in 1-2oz tubes, no one really needs a 8oz tube, the pins take so little grease
 
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