Bye-Bye Windshield...
- Thread starter ekpolk
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Originally Posted By: ffracer
Sure:
PPG (anything)
Pilkington/Triplex (US/Europe/Japan/Korea cars) or NSG/Nippon-Libbey (Japanese cars) - really anything - may have different brands
Carlite/Ford (Ford/Mazda)
Chrysler Safeguard (Chrysler)
Saint-Gobain/Sekurit (usually Europe cars)
Asahi/AP (Japan and US cars)
Having gone though a lot of windshields, I'll second that list. The OEM brand generally gives the best fit, vision and accessory accommodation. But I've found that some European glass (Sekurit comes to mind) can be "softer", developing pits and surface scratches and chips faster than others. Degrades clarity and chews up wiper blades.
PPG usually fits well, has good clarity, and almost always wears like a sheet of armor. That is often my first choice unless the WS is unusual and/or has special options installed. That the WS is not OEM makes no difference at trade-in/resale time.
Just as important as the glass is the installer. Twenty-five years ago, all I worried about were leaks. But the windshield is now a structural member on some cars. Careless bonding/curing methods can cause air bag deployment issues (some dash mounted bags can blow the windshield out instead of forming an impact cushion against it). Mobile units that bang out 15 or 20 jobs a day now give me greater pause for concern.
Sure:
PPG (anything)
Pilkington/Triplex (US/Europe/Japan/Korea cars) or NSG/Nippon-Libbey (Japanese cars) - really anything - may have different brands
Carlite/Ford (Ford/Mazda)
Chrysler Safeguard (Chrysler)
Saint-Gobain/Sekurit (usually Europe cars)
Asahi/AP (Japan and US cars)
Having gone though a lot of windshields, I'll second that list. The OEM brand generally gives the best fit, vision and accessory accommodation. But I've found that some European glass (Sekurit comes to mind) can be "softer", developing pits and surface scratches and chips faster than others. Degrades clarity and chews up wiper blades.
PPG usually fits well, has good clarity, and almost always wears like a sheet of armor. That is often my first choice unless the WS is unusual and/or has special options installed. That the WS is not OEM makes no difference at trade-in/resale time.
Just as important as the glass is the installer. Twenty-five years ago, all I worried about were leaks. But the windshield is now a structural member on some cars. Careless bonding/curing methods can cause air bag deployment issues (some dash mounted bags can blow the windshield out instead of forming an impact cushion against it). Mobile units that bang out 15 or 20 jobs a day now give me greater pause for concern.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
There are dirty dumptrucks that drive on some of the roads (interstates) in DE.
Same here. I think the dumptruck drivers are the bottom of the CDL barrel.
There are dirty dumptrucks that drive on some of the roads (interstates) in DE.
Same here. I think the dumptruck drivers are the bottom of the CDL barrel.
UPDATE:
First off, thanks for all the good comments, these will be a great help as I sort this mess out.
The cracks have grown substantially in two days. If you look at the second photo I posted, the lower crack, right in the pic and tiny, now reaches all the way down to the lower edge of the WS, going under the wiper you can see. The upper crack, left in the pic, did an "S" turn, first heading upwards, and then back toward the center. It has grown at least eight inches since I took the above pics. I'd better do something about this soon...
On the insurance front, USAA has a separate glass replacement office. They want me to use a local "approved" shop that will do either an appointment "on site" (my home or office), or at their shop. They plan to use a Safelite WS that supposedly meets the special spec for the Hybrid Camry (which comes with a special noise insulating WS, which does not appear on any other Camrys. Apparently there are even two versions of the WS, one for cars with the electrochromic mirror (which I have), and another for TCHs with the manual mirror. Of course, they are assuring me that Safelite glass is perfectly OK to use, and every bit as good as the OEM. I have my doubts...
So, any information out there about the Safelite option?
Thanks again for the good comments.
First off, thanks for all the good comments, these will be a great help as I sort this mess out.
The cracks have grown substantially in two days. If you look at the second photo I posted, the lower crack, right in the pic and tiny, now reaches all the way down to the lower edge of the WS, going under the wiper you can see. The upper crack, left in the pic, did an "S" turn, first heading upwards, and then back toward the center. It has grown at least eight inches since I took the above pics. I'd better do something about this soon...
On the insurance front, USAA has a separate glass replacement office. They want me to use a local "approved" shop that will do either an appointment "on site" (my home or office), or at their shop. They plan to use a Safelite WS that supposedly meets the special spec for the Hybrid Camry (which comes with a special noise insulating WS, which does not appear on any other Camrys. Apparently there are even two versions of the WS, one for cars with the electrochromic mirror (which I have), and another for TCHs with the manual mirror. Of course, they are assuring me that Safelite glass is perfectly OK to use, and every bit as good as the OEM. I have my doubts...
So, any information out there about the Safelite option?
Thanks again for the good comments.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
... and every bit as good as the OEM. I have my doubts...
So, any information out there about the Safelite option?
Modern automobile glass is an underappreciated lifesaver. It looks like the OEM WS in your Toyota did a great job of protecting the occupants of your car from that rock strike.
I would insist on an OEM replacement, even if I had to pay extra for it. I think the people that ride in my car are worth it.
... and every bit as good as the OEM. I have my doubts...
So, any information out there about the Safelite option?
Modern automobile glass is an underappreciated lifesaver. It looks like the OEM WS in your Toyota did a great job of protecting the occupants of your car from that rock strike.
I would insist on an OEM replacement, even if I had to pay extra for it. I think the people that ride in my car are worth it.
I had a car that someone had already dropped a Safelite WS into. I didn't like it. Nothing really wrong with it, but the clarity was not great IMO.
If your vehicle is under warranty, you can sometimes make the argument that installing aftermarket parts will void warranty coverage on related parts, systems and assemblies. It's easy to get OEM parts on most body, mechanical and electrical claims that way, and I've done that repeatedly over the years. Glass might be a harder pitch, though.
If your vehicle is under warranty, you can sometimes make the argument that installing aftermarket parts will void warranty coverage on related parts, systems and assemblies. It's easy to get OEM parts on most body, mechanical and electrical claims that way, and I've done that repeatedly over the years. Glass might be a harder pitch, though.
A lot of people make the mistake of having the mobil unit stop by. If i see only one person i say forget it...You need at least two people to install it right...and also the car should sit overnight so the polyurithane cures...
OK, let's talk cure time on the adhesive. I just had the dealership guy insist that the modern "glues" don't need any more than 30 min to get fully fixed and cured. So what is it -- overnight or 30 min (yes, even for an overworked guy like me, overnight is more than 30 min -- but sometimes not by much...)?
Interestingly (to me anyway) our Toyota store, which has a full body shop, does not do their own glass work. They sub out to a local guy they approve of (for what reasons, I don't know) who will do an install of the OEM glass. Is it normal that large body shops don't do glass work? Keep in mind that I've been very lucky -- I'm 47 and this is my first busted WS.
Interestingly (to me anyway) our Toyota store, which has a full body shop, does not do their own glass work. They sub out to a local guy they approve of (for what reasons, I don't know) who will do an install of the OEM glass. Is it normal that large body shops don't do glass work? Keep in mind that I've been very lucky -- I'm 47 and this is my first busted WS.
Seems like it takes a feel to install auto glass I have watched glass installed in cars and trucks,seems practice makes perfect. Untill the last few years I never had to replace a windshield. I replaced two since . The rocks are harder now days!!!
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
OK, let's talk cure time on the adhesive.
I have no clue how accurate this is, but it is consistent with my general understanding on windshield replacement issues since the 1990s:
http://www.acrglass.com/cure_time.htm
"Safe drive away time" is the big buzzword here.
OK, let's talk cure time on the adhesive.
I have no clue how accurate this is, but it is consistent with my general understanding on windshield replacement issues since the 1990s:
http://www.acrglass.com/cure_time.htm
"Safe drive away time" is the big buzzword here.
I forgot about Safelite/SGC. Garbage. Pure garbage. Fit, optical distortion. Run!
Mobile installation is OK these days. they use quick dry adhesive [Essex or Sika] (as long as it is not raining or extremely cold) in 1-2 hrs.
The local glass shops are often better than the chains, especially Safelite or Diamond/Triumph.
your insurance cannot make you use a particular company. Generally the PPG affliated "shops" are pretty good.
Good luck ek - go with OEM windshield & Essex or Sika adhesive and will be like the factory.
Mobile installation is OK these days. they use quick dry adhesive [Essex or Sika] (as long as it is not raining or extremely cold) in 1-2 hrs.
The local glass shops are often better than the chains, especially Safelite or Diamond/Triumph.
your insurance cannot make you use a particular company. Generally the PPG affliated "shops" are pretty good.
Good luck ek - go with OEM windshield & Essex or Sika adhesive and will be like the factory.
Originally Posted By: rszappa1
A lot of people make the mistake of having the mobil unit stop by. If i see only one person i say forget it...You need at least two people to install it right...and also the car should sit overnight so the polyurithane cures...
The same gent from Safelite has done both of our cars' windshields right in our driveway. He has done this work for 20 years and each car was complete in less than an hour with absolutely perfect results done with quality glass. This obviously proves your statement dead wrong. He also said to let it sit for one hour and the glue would be cured. Pardon me but after witnessing this man do his job I'll take his word over yours where glass is concerned.
A lot of people make the mistake of having the mobil unit stop by. If i see only one person i say forget it...You need at least two people to install it right...and also the car should sit overnight so the polyurithane cures...
The same gent from Safelite has done both of our cars' windshields right in our driveway. He has done this work for 20 years and each car was complete in less than an hour with absolutely perfect results done with quality glass. This obviously proves your statement dead wrong. He also said to let it sit for one hour and the glue would be cured. Pardon me but after witnessing this man do his job I'll take his word over yours where glass is concerned.
Originally Posted By: RTexasF
Originally Posted By: rszappa1
A lot of people make the mistake of having the mobil unit stop by. If i see only one person i say forget it...You need at least two people to install it right...and also the car should sit overnight so the polyurithane cures...
The same gent from Safelite has done both of our cars' windshields right in our driveway. He has done this work for 20 years and each car was complete in less than an hour with absolutely perfect results done with quality glass. This obviously proves your statement dead wrong. He also said to let it sit for one hour and the glue would be cured. Pardon me but after witnessing this man do his job I'll take his word over yours where glass is concerned.
Alignment is tough with a one man job. It is hard enough to carry the glass up to the frame from one side, let alone aligning it. I will say it is possible to do a one man job but a lot easier to jack it up too...
Originally Posted By: rszappa1
A lot of people make the mistake of having the mobil unit stop by. If i see only one person i say forget it...You need at least two people to install it right...and also the car should sit overnight so the polyurithane cures...
The same gent from Safelite has done both of our cars' windshields right in our driveway. He has done this work for 20 years and each car was complete in less than an hour with absolutely perfect results done with quality glass. This obviously proves your statement dead wrong. He also said to let it sit for one hour and the glue would be cured. Pardon me but after witnessing this man do his job I'll take his word over yours where glass is concerned.
Alignment is tough with a one man job. It is hard enough to carry the glass up to the frame from one side, let alone aligning it. I will say it is possible to do a one man job but a lot easier to jack it up too...
Originally Posted By: RTexasF
Originally Posted By: rszappa1
A lot of people make the mistake of having the mobil unit stop by. If i see only one person i say forget it...You need at least two people to install it right...and also the car should sit overnight so the polyurithane cures...
The same gent from Safelite has done both of our cars' windshields right in our driveway. He has done this work for 20 years and each car was complete in less than an hour with absolutely perfect results done with quality glass. This obviously proves your statement dead wrong. He also said to let it sit for one hour and the glue would be cured. Pardon me but after witnessing this man do his job I'll take his word over yours where glass is concerned.
A good installer can do most (not all) windshields by themselves. There are also two types of urethanes - regular and quick cure. Quick cure can cure in 1-2 hours enough to pass a crash test. There is no downside to it either vs. regular. It just costs more.
Not all Safelite installs are poor.A good installer is what counts with the right adhesive. Safelite glass is .... pretty bad. There's much better for the same price. Safelite does install OEM glass if requested.
Originally Posted By: rszappa1
A lot of people make the mistake of having the mobil unit stop by. If i see only one person i say forget it...You need at least two people to install it right...and also the car should sit overnight so the polyurithane cures...
The same gent from Safelite has done both of our cars' windshields right in our driveway. He has done this work for 20 years and each car was complete in less than an hour with absolutely perfect results done with quality glass. This obviously proves your statement dead wrong. He also said to let it sit for one hour and the glue would be cured. Pardon me but after witnessing this man do his job I'll take his word over yours where glass is concerned.
A good installer can do most (not all) windshields by themselves. There are also two types of urethanes - regular and quick cure. Quick cure can cure in 1-2 hours enough to pass a crash test. There is no downside to it either vs. regular. It just costs more.
Not all Safelite installs are poor.A good installer is what counts with the right adhesive. Safelite glass is .... pretty bad. There's much better for the same price. Safelite does install OEM glass if requested.
I just had the glass in my TL replaced twice. The first time I noticed a flaw right away, before I took it home. I pointed it out and they told me it would be a week until they could get the OEM glass I requested. During that week I noticed what seemed like more wind noise and definately more road noise (to my surprise). They had gone with a cheap non sound deadened glass instead of the $900 OEM glass. Once the OEM glass was back in, the noise was gone.
Originally Posted By: Jonny Z
Originally Posted By: ffracer
Avoid anything made in China. Anything. FYG is a big brand. Mediocre and unsafe sometimes.
I needed a new windshield a couple of years ago for my 02 Camry. I called my local PPG installer (found them via PPG's website). To my dismay they showed up at my door with a piece of FYG. It was going to take another week to order a PPG, and I would not have a second vehicle for the following week (I intended to park it for 2 days to let the glue cure), so I accepted the FYG. Optically it was as good as OEM (I think it was an AP Tech), the tint is a little darker. It took a few rocks and got chipped at a few places since, but no crack. Over all I am quite happy with it.
FYG seems to be the OEM for GM/Toyota/Honda in China. According to this article I found, it seems to hold up well against rocks (at least for the one application they tested).
http://www.windshieldrepairjournal.com/windshield_repair_5_02.pdf
I studied FYG and other Chinese companies' glass. True, they are OEM for China market cars, but the glass is not even close to what is sold in NA, Europe, or Japan. It is thinner - less chassis rigidity and less airbag holding capability (airbag blows off of the flex of a broken windshield).
This article is interesting, but does not prove much. i.e. any film added to a windshield will improve its crack resistance, since crack tend to orginiate from the edges more than from the center. The results without the film added will be different by brand, not the same brand will score best. these films are not used for a variety of reasons: less breakage = less business for installers, they can delaminate and create optical issues, and are hard to apply.
The fit is a whole other topic. Some cars they get right, others no even close.
Most anyone in the world can make a good US GM A-body (Ciera/Century/Celebrity/6000) windshield or a 1st gen S-10/Sonoma/Blazer/Jimmy, because they are easy to shape and bend.
Most cars today are much larger and curvier - which requires proper forming to make sure they fit and not have optical distortion.
Using the right materials with a qualified installer matters most. Where it is done (shop or mobile) is irrelevant, if they know what they are doing and using the proper techniques and materials. the car shouldn't be driven anyway for at least 2 hours.
Rust on the frame is simply a function of putting frame primer on a cleaned surface before the adhesive and the problem is gone. Not doing this creates a rust problem when there may have not been one.
Still odd that the Mazda3 has Sekurit/Saint Gobain windshield, since they used to use Central Glass of Japan windows in a lot of their Japan made cars. Sekurit has to be imported.
Originally Posted By: ffracer
Avoid anything made in China. Anything. FYG is a big brand. Mediocre and unsafe sometimes.
I needed a new windshield a couple of years ago for my 02 Camry. I called my local PPG installer (found them via PPG's website). To my dismay they showed up at my door with a piece of FYG. It was going to take another week to order a PPG, and I would not have a second vehicle for the following week (I intended to park it for 2 days to let the glue cure), so I accepted the FYG. Optically it was as good as OEM (I think it was an AP Tech), the tint is a little darker. It took a few rocks and got chipped at a few places since, but no crack. Over all I am quite happy with it.
FYG seems to be the OEM for GM/Toyota/Honda in China. According to this article I found, it seems to hold up well against rocks (at least for the one application they tested).
http://www.windshieldrepairjournal.com/windshield_repair_5_02.pdf
I studied FYG and other Chinese companies' glass. True, they are OEM for China market cars, but the glass is not even close to what is sold in NA, Europe, or Japan. It is thinner - less chassis rigidity and less airbag holding capability (airbag blows off of the flex of a broken windshield).
This article is interesting, but does not prove much. i.e. any film added to a windshield will improve its crack resistance, since crack tend to orginiate from the edges more than from the center. The results without the film added will be different by brand, not the same brand will score best. these films are not used for a variety of reasons: less breakage = less business for installers, they can delaminate and create optical issues, and are hard to apply.
The fit is a whole other topic. Some cars they get right, others no even close.
Most anyone in the world can make a good US GM A-body (Ciera/Century/Celebrity/6000) windshield or a 1st gen S-10/Sonoma/Blazer/Jimmy, because they are easy to shape and bend.
Most cars today are much larger and curvier - which requires proper forming to make sure they fit and not have optical distortion.
Using the right materials with a qualified installer matters most. Where it is done (shop or mobile) is irrelevant, if they know what they are doing and using the proper techniques and materials. the car shouldn't be driven anyway for at least 2 hours.
Rust on the frame is simply a function of putting frame primer on a cleaned surface before the adhesive and the problem is gone. Not doing this creates a rust problem when there may have not been one.
Still odd that the Mazda3 has Sekurit/Saint Gobain windshield, since they used to use Central Glass of Japan windows in a lot of their Japan made cars. Sekurit has to be imported.
Quote:
Still odd that the Mazda3 has Sekurit/Saint Gobain windshield, since they used to use Central Glass of Japan windows in a lot of their Japan made cars. Sekurit has to be imported.
My 2002 protege5 also has sekurit/saint gobain all the way around.
Still odd that the Mazda3 has Sekurit/Saint Gobain windshield, since they used to use Central Glass of Japan windows in a lot of their Japan made cars. Sekurit has to be imported.
My 2002 protege5 also has sekurit/saint gobain all the way around.
Originally Posted By: tom slick
Quote:
Still odd that the Mazda3 has Sekurit/Saint Gobain windshield, since they used to use Central Glass of Japan windows in a lot of their Japan made cars. Sekurit has to be imported.
My 2002 protege5 also has sekurit/saint gobain all the way around.
Here's the answer!! It is Central Glass just with Sekurit branding from a joint venture.
http://www.glassonweb.com/news/index/1162/
Quote:
Still odd that the Mazda3 has Sekurit/Saint Gobain windshield, since they used to use Central Glass of Japan windows in a lot of their Japan made cars. Sekurit has to be imported.
My 2002 protege5 also has sekurit/saint gobain all the way around.
Here's the answer!! It is Central Glass just with Sekurit branding from a joint venture.
http://www.glassonweb.com/news/index/1162/
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
UPDATE:
On the insurance front, USAA has a separate glass replacement office. They want me to use a local "approved" shop that will do either an appointment "on site" (my home or office), or at their shop. They plan to use a Safelite WS that supposedly meets the special spec for the Hybrid Camry (I have my doubts...
So, any information out there about the Safelite option?
Thanks again for the good comments.
Simply call USAA and insist that the shop use the TOYOTA OEM glass. BY law you have a right to receive OEM parts when damage is repaired. But many times you have to INSIST on this. !!!!
UPDATE:
On the insurance front, USAA has a separate glass replacement office. They want me to use a local "approved" shop that will do either an appointment "on site" (my home or office), or at their shop. They plan to use a Safelite WS that supposedly meets the special spec for the Hybrid Camry (I have my doubts...
So, any information out there about the Safelite option?
Thanks again for the good comments.
Simply call USAA and insist that the shop use the TOYOTA OEM glass. BY law you have a right to receive OEM parts when damage is repaired. But many times you have to INSIST on this. !!!!
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