Patman
Staff member
I've always thought that if you overuse them you could possibly damage the injectors and cause them
to leak after shutdown.
to leak after shutdown.
Best injector cleaner and best fuel system cleaner
- Thread starter Dom
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That is correct Patman. Way too many of them are just cleaners and do exactly that and fail to maintain conditioning and lubrication of the injector seals and valves.
I have one company that has the ford powerstrokes and was using injector cleaners(not schaeffers). They said the cost of those injectors were extremely expensive and now will not use any. They also stated that ford will not warr those injectors because of the cleaner they were using.
So, in a nut shell, becarefull about what you use as you need to have one that helps condition injector seals as well as clean and neutralize acids and provides upper cyl lubrication.
BTW, this was not the only company I have talked with that has experienced this.
So far, The only 2 I know of and tested myself that provides ucl as well as neutralizing and cleaning is lucas and Schaeffers.
I have one company that has the ford powerstrokes and was using injector cleaners(not schaeffers). They said the cost of those injectors were extremely expensive and now will not use any. They also stated that ford will not warr those injectors because of the cleaner they were using.
So, in a nut shell, becarefull about what you use as you need to have one that helps condition injector seals as well as clean and neutralize acids and provides upper cyl lubrication.
BTW, this was not the only company I have talked with that has experienced this.
So far, The only 2 I know of and tested myself that provides ucl as well as neutralizing and cleaning is lucas and Schaeffers.
In three cars I keep a bottle of Amsoil PI in the trunk and add one squirt (concentrate) at every tankful. Longest engine on this regemin has 146,000 miles and used since 1000 miles. Never replaced an injector or had a fuel system issue, never had a injector flush etc. All original equip. On a few other cars I use the Techron every once in a while and again, never had a fuel system problem. Do they work, I don't know since all were running well to begin with so not a true test. Would cars have continued problem free without them, who knows.
[ July 08, 2002, 08:04 AM: Message edited by: Spector ]
[ July 08, 2002, 08:04 AM: Message edited by: Spector ]
Bob, your comments about fuel injector cleaner's have me wondering if I have damaged mine. At 28K on my 2001 Burb, I added the Chevron Techron cleaner into a tank of Chevron gas. Generally, I use Exxon because it is cheaper.
Every since I used the cleaner, my car surges at idle, right after start-up. It will surge between 2-500 rpms. Once I give it some gas, then it settles down.
Anybody have any ideas? I have brought it in to the dealer and they can't find anything wrong. Just a coincedence that it started right after I used the fuel injector cleaner.
Every since I used the cleaner, my car surges at idle, right after start-up. It will surge between 2-500 rpms. Once I give it some gas, then it settles down.
Anybody have any ideas? I have brought it in to the dealer and they can't find anything wrong. Just a coincedence that it started right after I used the fuel injector cleaner.
In a "very" controlled test the Lucas fuel treatment gave a .8 mile per gallon increase while using it
I have used it in a new car as a upper cylinder lube during break in and now run it for 3 tanks,then 1 tank with out to keep it from becoming accumalative. I guess I will stick with it for one,Bobs test showed it to be a pretty good product and two,I buy it for 6.00 per quart when I buy a case. That is ten applications per quart.
You guys have any thoughts on if I am overusing it? Maybe every other tank or something? Your thoughts,critisism are welcome guys
I have used it in a new car as a upper cylinder lube during break in and now run it for 3 tanks,then 1 tank with out to keep it from becoming accumalative. I guess I will stick with it for one,Bobs test showed it to be a pretty good product and two,I buy it for 6.00 per quart when I buy a case. That is ten applications per quart.
You guys have any thoughts on if I am overusing it? Maybe every other tank or something? Your thoughts,critisism are welcome guys
dragboat
Lucas said 5.07 ounces UCL for 13.2 gallons gasoline is the ideal ratio (150ml to 50 litres).
Very cost effective even at Aussie price.
Lucas said 5.07 ounces UCL for 13.2 gallons gasoline is the ideal ratio (150ml to 50 litres).
Very cost effective even at Aussie price.
Kevin,
I would change the fuel filter and disconnect the battery and turn the headlights on to reset the computer. With the humidity ect. you may have had moisture, and resetting the computer as it may be compensating for the plugged filter. Thoughts only.
Bob,
On a Ford PSD a set of 8 REBUILT injectors are $1600 from DIS in Amarillo, TX. New ones are about double from Ford.
The PSD injectors can tolerate any Additive/Cleaner as long as it does NOT contain alcohol. Lucas does not and I don't know on the Schaeffer's 131. Can you check that please.
I would change the fuel filter and disconnect the battery and turn the headlights on to reset the computer. With the humidity ect. you may have had moisture, and resetting the computer as it may be compensating for the plugged filter. Thoughts only.
Bob,
On a Ford PSD a set of 8 REBUILT injectors are $1600 from DIS in Amarillo, TX. New ones are about double from Ford.
The PSD injectors can tolerate any Additive/Cleaner as long as it does NOT contain alcohol. Lucas does not and I don't know on the Schaeffer's 131. Can you check that please.
I've seen excellent results with "STP Fuel System Complete" via a before and after view with a bore scope. It was on a hot LT1 chevy motor that was fuel injected and had been running too rich for awhile. One bottle removed carbon on the back of the intake valve and intake port by 80%. The top of the piston was cleaned about 30%. a second bottle after a tank full of gas in between treatments, removed all but a few specs on the intake ports and maybe 10% left on the valves. Pistons seemed to be a little cleaner. Injector spray pattern seemed to widen a bit based on what the intake runner looked like in front of the intake ports. car felt much better after the treatment and returned to normal performances. fyi....the , tank full of gas, between treatments, did not accumulate additional deposits.IME..
At 100k on my 96 f-150 302 v8 I dumped 4 bottles of Techron into one of the almost empty tanks and filled with only 5 gallons of gas. Really helped out the drivability of the truck. I do this every 50k and truck now has 214k on it. I think the Chrevon Techron is excellent stuff.
I second the Amsoil PI, Several accounts that use the stuff religously. El Paso Does emissions testing, so the results don't lie.
6 oz per 10 gallon cleanup dose, then only 1 oz per 10 gal. after that. It really works.
I use it in the F150, and my BMW Scoot.
I was going to start a post today about my oil consumption and how to "clean" it up, but figgured I'd piggyback on this post.
I know I'm getting oil in the intake of my carb'ed SBC and it is really crudding up the backs of the intake valves (saw this when the intake was pulled). After much trial and error, It is still burning about 1 qt per 700 - 800 miles and I don't have the time to tear the engine apart, so I decided to live with the problem at least until winter.
I was thinking that I need to regularly use some cleaner to keep the valves/pistons clean. I see this "RXP" product at all of the auto parts stores and was thinking of using it initially to clean up and then going with the Redline cleaner on a regular basis.
I really don't have any basis for my plan and was hoping that I could get some guidance here.
one more thing, the 131 is a whole lot less expensive than the techron and it a lot more versitile too.
[ July 29, 2002, 06:04 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]
I know I'm getting oil in the intake of my carb'ed SBC and it is really crudding up the backs of the intake valves (saw this when the intake was pulled). After much trial and error, It is still burning about 1 qt per 700 - 800 miles and I don't have the time to tear the engine apart, so I decided to live with the problem at least until winter.
I was thinking that I need to regularly use some cleaner to keep the valves/pistons clean. I see this "RXP" product at all of the auto parts stores and was thinking of using it initially to clean up and then going with the Redline cleaner on a regular basis.
I really don't have any basis for my plan and was hoping that I could get some guidance here.
one more thing, the 131 is a whole lot less expensive than the techron and it a lot more versitile too.
[ July 29, 2002, 06:04 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]
I'd argue that MM can increase mileage. It is nothing more than a top end lubricant. That being said, it does nothing for cleaning carbon/soot, it would fail as an octane boost. Can you help explain how MM would increase mileage being that its a lubricant and not a cleaner/ MTBE/ethonal oxygenant?
I have seen many people use a lot of different "cleaners" but problem is cleaners can damage seals(injector seals). Others are octane boosters and not cleaners. Others are just lubricants.
After others have been used I have put in schaeffers 131 neutra and has made considerable difference in performance depending on how bad the motor is to start with. Of course the 131 is a seal conditioner,acid neutralizers, cleaners/ detergents and top end lubricant all in one. Toyota has adopted using it in serviceing problem child cars with great success, eliminating having to pull injects and such.
As for techron, I have not done anything with that but from what I'm hearing, so far it sounds like it might be better than most but comming from me, that is hearsay so don't hold me to it.
bob
I have seen many people use a lot of different "cleaners" but problem is cleaners can damage seals(injector seals). Others are octane boosters and not cleaners. Others are just lubricants.
After others have been used I have put in schaeffers 131 neutra and has made considerable difference in performance depending on how bad the motor is to start with. Of course the 131 is a seal conditioner,acid neutralizers, cleaners/ detergents and top end lubricant all in one. Toyota has adopted using it in serviceing problem child cars with great success, eliminating having to pull injects and such.
As for techron, I have not done anything with that but from what I'm hearing, so far it sounds like it might be better than most but comming from me, that is hearsay so don't hold me to it.
bob
I've used Techron every 6000 miles for quite a while. It always provides a nice MPG boost for that tank, but then it goes back down after subsequent tanks.
Lately, I've been putting good old Marvel Mystery Oil in the gas tank -- about 3 ounces per 10 gallons of gasoline. I've noticed more power and consistently better MPG.
Lately, I've been putting good old Marvel Mystery Oil in the gas tank -- about 3 ounces per 10 gallons of gasoline. I've noticed more power and consistently better MPG.
MMO is used by a lot of Saturn owners to free stuck rings. In some cases, it's poured right into the cylinders and allowed to soak overnight. I haven't done that yet, but from what I've heard, it does work in some cases. I can only assume that MMO has some cleaning properties, albeit as a solvent and not a cleaner. As for the mileage increase, I don't know how it works, but it does. It has also cut my once-constant pinging down to almost nothing. This is what I started using before I tried Auto-RX. It didn't reduce my oil usage at all, but the mileage increase and the elimination of pinging have been appealing to me.
I'd be more than happy to try the Neutra 131, but I don't have $250 to spend on a minimum order.
I received my case of Neutra and have now placed it in four differently vehicles. I did not expect any results as I have been running the Amosil PI in almost every tankful of these cars for years and they are running fine to begin with. It was intended more of a substitute rather then to improve performance. As expected, I did not see any change. However, my lawnmower has been acting up, especially when first started and running rough. I tried the #131 (Amsoil PI did nothing for the mower) and it purrs from the first pull. Major improvement. I also placed some in the crankcase of the mower to clean it up prior to a oil change. Based upon the lawnmower test (where the engine was not running fine) this product does appear to work. I will be placing it in the crankcase of one vehicle soon to determine how it it can clean in that scenario.
I expressed an interest in using Nuetra 131 in some applications around here. I'll probably get some ... but what form does it come in, gallon jugs? Quarts? My car seems to run pretty well ... excellent for a car with 120,000 miles on it but some of the lawn mowers around here could use a little help.
I have used MMO in some vehicles and I've seen it make engines run smoother/quieter and it also reduces oil consumption for as long as it is in the fuel. If removed, oil consumption resumes its previous level.
BUT, I'm reluctant to use this stuff in fuel injected engines. Maybe I'm just a little paranoid about clogging them up.
--- Bror Jace
I have used MMO in some vehicles and I've seen it make engines run smoother/quieter and it also reduces oil consumption for as long as it is in the fuel. If removed, oil consumption resumes its previous level.
BUT, I'm reluctant to use this stuff in fuel injected engines. Maybe I'm just a little paranoid about clogging them up.
--- Bror Jace
Sorry I haven't got back to you with a response on your email. promise, I'll get on it, just been real busy ever since chevron reformulated their delo 400 40wt to not work with 2stroke diesesl i've been getting a lot of calls.
As for the 131, comes in pints 24 in a case, gals, 4gals in a case. recommend the pints, but if you are going to go through tim, you can get what ever amount you want, 2 pints 5 what ever so not to overload yourself if you don't think it is needed.
Another point, I just thought about, reason for MMO reducing oil consumption and going back up after non continued use is it is creating a seal effect around the rings with the thickness of the oil, kinda like increaseing compression around the rings, this would account for better performance, increased mileage and less oil consumption. I guess I can't argue with the mileage issue after all since this seems to be what is happening.
Neutra doesn't work like this, as it isn't a heavy based oil product like MMO. It will provide a lot of the same benifets but it derives it by different means.
[ July 30, 2002, 07:52 PM: Message edited by: David ]
As for the 131, comes in pints 24 in a case, gals, 4gals in a case. recommend the pints, but if you are going to go through tim, you can get what ever amount you want, 2 pints 5 what ever so not to overload yourself if you don't think it is needed.
Another point, I just thought about, reason for MMO reducing oil consumption and going back up after non continued use is it is creating a seal effect around the rings with the thickness of the oil, kinda like increaseing compression around the rings, this would account for better performance, increased mileage and less oil consumption. I guess I can't argue with the mileage issue after all since this seems to be what is happening.
Neutra doesn't work like this, as it isn't a heavy based oil product like MMO. It will provide a lot of the same benifets but it derives it by different means.
[ July 30, 2002, 07:52 PM: Message edited by: David ]
It comes 12 oz bottles (24 case) 4 -1 gallon jugs case and up. Works great in injected engines! Cleans injectors. Clogged injectors can rob you of as much as 25% of your power and performance. Neutra cleans injectors and restores lost power and fuel economy.quote:
Originally posted by Bror Jace:
I expressed an interest in using Nuetra 131 in some applications around here. I'll probably get some ... but what form does it come in, gallon jugs? Quarts? My car seems to run pretty well ... excellent for a car with 120,000 miles on it but some of the lawn mowers around here could use a little help.
I have used MMO in some vehicles and I've seen it make engines run smoother/quieter and it also reduces oil consumption for as long as it is in the fuel. If removed, oil consumption resumes its previous level.
BUT, I'm reluctant to use this stuff in fuel injected engines. Maybe I'm just a little paranoid about clogging them up.
--- Bror Jace
Protects Against Corrosion
Rust, caused by moisture in your engine's fuel system is stopped by an anti-rust additive.
[ July 30, 2002, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]
I've used MMO for years in both carb and F/I engines, so far I'm happy with the results. From your earlier post, you indicated MMO was really a lubricant for the top end of the motor. What about combining MMO and Techron for the best of both worlds? Thanks.
Got to reading the thread and thought I would throw in my .02.
Go to this website:
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/cars/msg0410201522356.html
I did some research when reading about fuel injector cleaning. My basis was for improved fuel injector cleanings. I am one of the unlucky Toyota owners who bought a used van and found out it was sludged. I believe I was Frank Miller's first Toyota owner to use Auto-Rx (wrong topic area, Bob, sorry
). I was getting good results because the oil filters were full of sludge. Long story short: Toyota got me a whole new engine! I still use a 2oz. dosage in teh van to prevent any sludge that may buidup in the future (no, I am not doing any 10,000 mile oil change intervals. Sticking to probably 4,000 miles).
My new problem is the gas mileage is not where I expect it to be. Research says it should get 18/24 but I usually get 15/19-20.
I would think that a new block would get better mileage than that (its about the same as it was prior to a new engine put in). I figured that maybe the injectors could go for a cleaning.
I used Lucas twice in the past week (went to the beach for a total of about 400 miles). First tank fot me about 330 miles on 17.8 gallons which averaged about 18.5 miles per gallon. Granted, I had the A/C blaring and the van has a bigger frontal area than say, a camry (same engine), but I would think that I could get better MPG than 18.5. BTW, did not go higher than 75 MPH. Just before leaving on the trip, I pulled the old plugs out ( a combo. of Autolites and Champions) and put some Bosch Platinum twin tip plugs in. The owners manual specifically calls for the twin tip and about all I could find at the last minute were the Boschs.
Anyway, just thought I would throw the link above in there for what it was worth...
Just can't find the Toluene anywhere around here that easy. I need to go to a paint store perhaps...
Go to this website:
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/cars/msg0410201522356.html
I did some research when reading about fuel injector cleaning. My basis was for improved fuel injector cleanings. I am one of the unlucky Toyota owners who bought a used van and found out it was sludged. I believe I was Frank Miller's first Toyota owner to use Auto-Rx (wrong topic area, Bob, sorry
My new problem is the gas mileage is not where I expect it to be. Research says it should get 18/24 but I usually get 15/19-20.
I would think that a new block would get better mileage than that (its about the same as it was prior to a new engine put in). I figured that maybe the injectors could go for a cleaning.
I used Lucas twice in the past week (went to the beach for a total of about 400 miles). First tank fot me about 330 miles on 17.8 gallons which averaged about 18.5 miles per gallon. Granted, I had the A/C blaring and the van has a bigger frontal area than say, a camry (same engine), but I would think that I could get better MPG than 18.5. BTW, did not go higher than 75 MPH. Just before leaving on the trip, I pulled the old plugs out ( a combo. of Autolites and Champions) and put some Bosch Platinum twin tip plugs in. The owners manual specifically calls for the twin tip and about all I could find at the last minute were the Boschs.
Anyway, just thought I would throw the link above in there for what it was worth...
Just can't find the Toluene anywhere around here that easy. I need to go to a paint store perhaps...
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