Base oil vs. Add-pack

[ProfPS]

I have come to the conclusion that some add-packs are used to makeup for base oil short comings, and that add-packs can improve product specs. Based on this I have three questions:

1- Is it better to have a good base oil with a weak add-pack, or a weak base oil with a good add-pack?

2- How can you tell the quality of each from the product specs?

3- And finally, if a heavily beefed up add-pack is used [with a weak base oil], are there any concerns that will show up in the long term or from long OCI’s such as sludge or other effects?

 

[Curious Kid]

Base oil will remain base oil over the OCI. The add pack gets used up. That said, I'd want the best of both worlds working synergistically.

Happy Holidays!

 

[buster]

Quote:
I'd want the best of both worlds working synergistically.

 

[ProfPS]

I too would want the best of both but it is available at a cost [I'll get it out of the way so it will not derail the intent of the post - Amsoil: mail order only, high cost but cheaper than OTC's when used for extremely long OCI's, no wear UOA's, some BITOG'ers are sales reps and will sell it at a discount for a membership fee that has to be renewed before the next purchase/OCI, improves gas mileage, and takes out the trash, does the laundry, and cooks too!

].

However, given the number of OTC oils and the range of base oil/add-pack variations (dinos, syns, and blends), which is better to have: a good base oil or a good add-pack?

 

[JAG]

This is a very broad question which would take volumes to cover adequately but here's a start on some info. to read.

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=533

http://www.chevron.com/products/sitelets/baseoils/gf4.aspx

The worst oil that meets API SM or whatever spec can only be as bad as the minimum requirements of the specifications.

A search engine with the right search terms will find many more info such as above.

 

[Mannix]

There are no inferior base oils used in a SM oil from any company. There are now only small differences that the consumer will never notice. The base oil is only a carrier for the additive mixture. The additives give a lubricant it's characteristics for lubrication. All that the base oil does it get the concoction to critical parts, and with today's base oil technology, they all flow very well. GIVE ME THE ADDITIVES. and have a very Merry Christmas!!!

 

[Triple_Se7en]

I would think your choice may come from your OCI length. Higher group oil number (like from Group III to Group IV) leans into longer OCIs in most cases.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: Mannix
There are no inferior base oils used in a SM oil from any company. There are now only small differences that the consumer will never notice. The base oil is only a carrier for the additive mixture. The additives give a lubricant it's characteristics for lubrication. All that the base oil does it get the concoction to critical parts, and with today's base oil technology, they all flow very well. GIVE ME THE ADDITIVES. and have a very Merry Christmas!!!


Good post. I think you are correct.

 

[ProfPS]

So what you're saying is that when we compare two oils of the same group category, we should really focus the discussion on the add-packs. Is that why Valv AC (Grp II) typically is not at the top of many recommendation lists due to the add-pack?

Also, to revive common topic leaders from a year or two ago, Havoline SM (Grp II+) and MC (Grp II/III): the base oils are only the carrier and here too we should have focused on comparing the add-packs?

PE (please explain)

 

[Mannix]

Valvoline has also recently improved it's formulation, to what I believe is a building block to future API revisions, that are relying on innovative approaches to lubrication technologies. From SuperTech to Pennzoil Platinum, they have superior protection that we have never seen before. The gap between performance of an aconomy oil to a premium synthetic has closed significantly, to the point that unless you are interested in racing or extraordinarily long oil change intervals, say greater than 7500 miles, you will never notice the difference. And 7500 miles is only a subjective number. In most cases it's probably closer to 10000 miles.

Now the question on Hav vs. MC. You say that havoline is a grpII, but in reality, it is a mixture of what their base oil supllier has sent them. They state in their contract that they want a base oil with certain properties. The base oil company blends a grpII, II+, and III together to meet this spec. I all depends on what they have on hand. And no, Havol doesn't necessarily use Chevron Base oils, they buy on the open market like everyone else. The only base oil I know for sure is used in blend most of the time is the Grp III stuff that CP gets cheap from their Korean subsidiary. But I'm sure that if they need some at a blending plant, they will buy on the open market like they do for their grpII, and like every other company does.

I think that it can be best explained by the signature on ProfPS's post: "motor oil is motor oil"....., nothing less, nothing more

 

[levi]

+1 ^

 

[Loobed]

My understanding is the base oil does the protecting of the (metal) components.

The add pack keeps the oil from breaking down and wearing out, it also gives boundry layer protection when the thin layer of oil failes for a millisecond

or something like that

 

[GrampsintheSand]

I look at the base oil as the saline solution and the add packs as the drugs. Give me the drugs!

 

[salesrep]

I agree that base oils are getting more even. That said the adds are the first to go. The harsher the environment the better I want my base stock. The longer the drain....base stock. rpms,metal to metal protection, long term deposits... add pack may need to be looked at closer.

As always oil=base+adds+blending.

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: Loobed

My understanding is the base oil does the protecting of the (metal) components.

The add pack keeps the oil from breaking down and wearing out, it also gives boundry layer protection when the thin layer of oil failes for a millisecond

or something like that

Kinda'. Look up elastohydrodynamic (EHD) films which are formed by moving (mostly circular) parts like bearings. The effect keeps parts from contacting each other.

The AW films are also very important for the entire start up cycle IMHO.