Where was that graph pulled from? I'm going to go out on a limb and assume Amsoil due to it being indicated highest and in red. I'd also like to know if the tested filters are all for the same application. Is Purolator quoting any specific test method for their advertised claims?
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Originally Posted By: UnexplodedCow
Where was that graph pulled from? I'm going to go out on a limb and assume Amsoil due to it being indicated highest and in red. I'd also like to know if the tested filters are all for the same application. Is Purolator quoting any specific test method for their advertised claims?
Sad thing is the difference is performance, between the AMSOIL and FL820s, is very small but a much more expensive filter. the FL820 with tax can be had for $4 at Walmart.
Where was that graph pulled from? I'm going to go out on a limb and assume Amsoil due to it being indicated highest and in red. I'd also like to know if the tested filters are all for the same application. Is Purolator quoting any specific test method for their advertised claims?
Sad thing is the difference is performance, between the AMSOIL and FL820s, is very small but a much more expensive filter. the FL820 with tax can be had for $4 at Walmart.
$17ish from Amsoil, vs. ~$6 for a 15k oil filter setup (3 filters or 1 filter). I'm not going to say 25k, because the amount of dust kicked up from WV roads (dirt shoulders, and often on the road from farm tractors) will quickly put a car into a severe category. But, the quality of filtration is (somewhat) of an unknown until a test is performed. I still think it will perform just fine.
Originally Posted By: UnexplodedCow
Where was that graph pulled from? I'm going to go out on a limb and assume Amsoil due to it being indicated highest and in red. I'd also like to know if the tested filters are all for the same application. Is Purolator quoting any specific test method for their advertised claims?
Tested per ISO 4548-12 (it's listed on the graph header). Most filter makers are testing to that standard these days, including Purolator. Go to their website and you'll see it's quoted.
http://www.purolatorautofilters.net/products/oil_filters/Pages/pureoneoilfilters.aspx
At the bottom of the webpage is says:
"Based on ISO 4548-12 at 20 microns on PL30001"
Where was that graph pulled from? I'm going to go out on a limb and assume Amsoil due to it being indicated highest and in red. I'd also like to know if the tested filters are all for the same application. Is Purolator quoting any specific test method for their advertised claims?
Tested per ISO 4548-12 (it's listed on the graph header). Most filter makers are testing to that standard these days, including Purolator. Go to their website and you'll see it's quoted.
http://www.purolatorautofilters.net/products/oil_filters/Pages/pureoneoilfilters.aspx
At the bottom of the webpage is says:
"Based on ISO 4548-12 at 20 microns on PL30001"
Quote:
....for comparison of another model http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=426763
That shows the AE and the Wix with the separate thread end bypass and adbv. I'd have no problem, price being right, using the AE with this design. As for the one shown in the original post, no so much.
Obviously, I'm much more surprised to see that Wix/NG with a combo valve. Afaik, that is the first standard Wix/NG shown here with that design, and never seen one dissected by a member here. Made me check the two NG's I have here to look for the coil spring at the thread end, they both do. I do believe though that the combo valve in the NG1371/Wix51371 is the exception, not the rule, at least for now. good and unusual find though.
As for the AE media being identical to the Wix/NG, agree with ZO, I don't believe so. As AE posts no efficiency, it would be difficult to prove. But, like Purolator economy 'made fors' that look similar/same but have different (lower) efficiency, I think it would be the same for the AE, Wix/NG comparison.
....for comparison of another model http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=426763
That shows the AE and the Wix with the separate thread end bypass and adbv. I'd have no problem, price being right, using the AE with this design. As for the one shown in the original post, no so much.
Obviously, I'm much more surprised to see that Wix/NG with a combo valve. Afaik, that is the first standard Wix/NG shown here with that design, and never seen one dissected by a member here. Made me check the two NG's I have here to look for the coil spring at the thread end, they both do. I do believe though that the combo valve in the NG1371/Wix51371 is the exception, not the rule, at least for now. good and unusual find though.
As for the AE media being identical to the Wix/NG, agree with ZO, I don't believe so. As AE posts no efficiency, it would be difficult to prove. But, like Purolator economy 'made fors' that look similar/same but have different (lower) efficiency, I think it would be the same for the AE, Wix/NG comparison.
Originally Posted By: sayjac
Quote:
....for comparison of another model http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=426763
That shows the AE and the Wix with the separate thread end bypass and adbv. I'd have no problem, price being right, using the AE with this design. As for the one shown in the original post, no so much.
Obviously, I'm much more surprised to see that Wix/NG with a combo valve. Afaik, that is the first standard Wix/NG shown here with that design, and never seen one dissected by a member here. Made me check the two NG's I have here to look for the coil spring at the thread end, they both do. I do believe though that the combo valve in the NG1371/Wix51371 is the exception, not the rule, at least for now. good and unusual find though.
As for the AE media being identical to the Wix/NG, agree with ZO, I don't believe so. As AE posts no efficiency, it would be difficult to prove. But, like Purolator economy 'made fors' that look similar/same but have different (lower) efficiency, I think it would be the same for the AE, Wix/NG comparison.
If you view the filter elements from that other thread I posted you would not be able to tell a difference. Also if you look they are identical minus the color of the ADBV. Now the AX filter that I ordered for my wife's van I am guessing it is the cheaper pro select as it has the dome bypass and a different media.
Quote:
....for comparison of another model http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=426763
That shows the AE and the Wix with the separate thread end bypass and adbv. I'd have no problem, price being right, using the AE with this design. As for the one shown in the original post, no so much.
Obviously, I'm much more surprised to see that Wix/NG with a combo valve. Afaik, that is the first standard Wix/NG shown here with that design, and never seen one dissected by a member here. Made me check the two NG's I have here to look for the coil spring at the thread end, they both do. I do believe though that the combo valve in the NG1371/Wix51371 is the exception, not the rule, at least for now. good and unusual find though.
As for the AE media being identical to the Wix/NG, agree with ZO, I don't believe so. As AE posts no efficiency, it would be difficult to prove. But, like Purolator economy 'made fors' that look similar/same but have different (lower) efficiency, I think it would be the same for the AE, Wix/NG comparison.
If you view the filter elements from that other thread I posted you would not be able to tell a difference. Also if you look they are identical minus the color of the ADBV. Now the AX filter that I ordered for my wife's van I am guessing it is the cheaper pro select as it has the dome bypass and a different media.
^^^^^Again, naked eye cannot determine efficiency of a media/filter. AE, similar to the Napa Pro Select is the economy line of Wix made fors.
Show me the published efficiency rating of the AE being the same as Wix/NG, then perhaps they are the same, until then just speculation. My AAP Total Grip posted previously in this thread looks identical to the P1, yet the P1 is rated 99.9%, the AAP TG ~94%. Many other examples have been posted on this board, like QS looking the same as Puro Classic, but efficiency is different, and so on.
I don't believe, until proven otherwise, that the AE is the same media/efficiency as the Wix/NG.
fwiw, no need to quote my entire post each time you post.
Show me the published efficiency rating of the AE being the same as Wix/NG, then perhaps they are the same, until then just speculation. My AAP Total Grip posted previously in this thread looks identical to the P1, yet the P1 is rated 99.9%, the AAP TG ~94%. Many other examples have been posted on this board, like QS looking the same as Puro Classic, but efficiency is different, and so on.
I don't believe, until proven otherwise, that the AE is the same media/efficiency as the Wix/NG.
fwiw, no need to quote my entire post each time you post.
Originally Posted By: sayjac
^^^^^Again, naked eye can not determine efficiency of a media/filter. AE, similar to the Napa Pro Select is the economy line of Wix made fors.
Show me the published efficiency rating of the AE being the same as Wix/NG, then perhaps they are the same, until then just speculation. My AAP Total Grip posted previously in this thread looks identical to the P1, yet the P1 is rated 99.9%, the AAP TG ~94%. Many other examples have been posted on this board, like QS looking the same as Puro Classic, but efficiency is different, and so on.
I don't believe, until proven otherwise, that the AE is the same media/efficiency as the Wix/NG.
In that thread you had used oil filters, A little hard to tell when they are oil soaked.
^^^^^Again, naked eye can not determine efficiency of a media/filter. AE, similar to the Napa Pro Select is the economy line of Wix made fors.
Show me the published efficiency rating of the AE being the same as Wix/NG, then perhaps they are the same, until then just speculation. My AAP Total Grip posted previously in this thread looks identical to the P1, yet the P1 is rated 99.9%, the AAP TG ~94%. Many other examples have been posted on this board, like QS looking the same as Puro Classic, but efficiency is different, and so on.
I don't believe, until proven otherwise, that the AE is the same media/efficiency as the Wix/NG.
In that thread you had used oil filters, A little hard to tell when they are oil soaked.
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In that thread you had used oil filters, A little hard to tell when they are oil soaked.
For you, not me, I dissected them. There have been many other similar examples posted here by other posters over a long period of time.
Prove the AE has the same efficiency as the Wix/NG then could be the same, until then only speculation.
But, believe what you want.
In that thread you had used oil filters, A little hard to tell when they are oil soaked.
For you, not me, I dissected them. There have been many other similar examples posted here by other posters over a long period of time.
Prove the AE has the same efficiency as the Wix/NG then could be the same, until then only speculation.
But, believe what you want.
Originally Posted By: sayjac
For you, not me, I dissected them. There have been many other similar examples posted here by other posters over a long period of time.
Prove the AE has the same efficiency as the Wix/NG then could be the same, until then only speculation.
But, believe what you want.
As the one challenging me I have sited numerous examples and all you can show me are used oil filters? I am the one that proved that Wix and Napa Gold did use the combo valve and yet you didn't believe me. How about you prove they are not identical, you might not find the numbers as Dana would not want word getting out that they have rebranded the filters which would cut into their "premium" product.
For you, not me, I dissected them. There have been many other similar examples posted here by other posters over a long period of time.
Prove the AE has the same efficiency as the Wix/NG then could be the same, until then only speculation.
But, believe what you want.
As the one challenging me I have sited numerous examples and all you can show me are used oil filters? I am the one that proved that Wix and Napa Gold did use the combo valve and yet you didn't believe me. How about you prove they are not identical, you might not find the numbers as Dana would not want word getting out that they have rebranded the filters which would cut into their "premium" product.
I agree, some graphs could exist on how well these filters work, but many store brand filters don't come with that. Does that mean they're inefficient? I don't know.
Quoting Purolator-based filters (made-for types) vs the name-branded item is pointless. Purolator is an entirely different entity, and their practices may not be shared by other makers, so noting how company X does something is just going to stoke the fires for another online fisticuff session.
As for Wix using the combo valve: we've established they do. I'd also love to see some proof (based on actual tests) that a combo valve is inferior to other designs, and in what way. One example from someone is not qualifying.
As for one person dissecting filters; that is one person. List the number of filters, what exactly is done when dissecting, and what the control group is, so we can understand more of what you mean.
Until all that is said, it is just as logical to say the filter is a Napa Gold clone or isn't, as hard numbers are absent, and all we have are visuals and inference.
Quoting Purolator-based filters (made-for types) vs the name-branded item is pointless. Purolator is an entirely different entity, and their practices may not be shared by other makers, so noting how company X does something is just going to stoke the fires for another online fisticuff session.
As for Wix using the combo valve: we've established they do. I'd also love to see some proof (based on actual tests) that a combo valve is inferior to other designs, and in what way. One example from someone is not qualifying.
As for one person dissecting filters; that is one person. List the number of filters, what exactly is done when dissecting, and what the control group is, so we can understand more of what you mean.
Until all that is said, it is just as logical to say the filter is a Napa Gold clone or isn't, as hard numbers are absent, and all we have are visuals and inference.
Not logical to me that Wix would allow a made for to sell the same filter with a generic name like AE with the same efficiency and media as it's premium filter in this case Wix and Napa Gold for an econo price under another name.
Whether it's Purolator or Wix, neither is going to make that standard parctice as that would put their name branded filters in jeopardy. That would be illogical to me.
So, in the abscence of proof to show that the media and eficiency are as efficient it's only common sense says that are lower than the branded filters. Simple though, if it's the same, post up a published AE efficiency like Wix/NG does to prove it's as good.
As for combo valve, the OP's referenced Motorcraft post says a nitrile is not as reliable as silicone, subject to hardening. A nitrile combo valve, made of the same material then would be less reliable than silcone and/or a separate metal bypass. Only now besides preventing drainback, bypass psi could be compromised. As long as separate bypass is made, and is used in all the high line filters, pass on the cheaper combo valve design.
Whether it's Purolator or Wix, neither is going to make that standard parctice as that would put their name branded filters in jeopardy. That would be illogical to me.
So, in the abscence of proof to show that the media and eficiency are as efficient it's only common sense says that are lower than the branded filters. Simple though, if it's the same, post up a published AE efficiency like Wix/NG does to prove it's as good.
As for combo valve, the OP's referenced Motorcraft post says a nitrile is not as reliable as silicone, subject to hardening. A nitrile combo valve, made of the same material then would be less reliable than silcone and/or a separate metal bypass. Only now besides preventing drainback, bypass psi could be compromised. As long as separate bypass is made, and is used in all the high line filters, pass on the cheaper combo valve design.
Originally Posted By: sayjac
Not logical to me that Wix would allow a made for to sell the same filter with a generic name like AE with the same efficiency and media as it's premium filter in this case Wix and Napa Gold for an econo price under another name.
Whether it's Purolator or Wix neither is going to make that standard parctice as that would put their name branded filters in jeopordy. That would bwe illogical to me.
So, in the abscence of proof to show that the media and eficiency are as efficient it's only common sense says that are lower than the branded filters.
As for combo valve, the OP's referenced Motorcraft post says a nitrile is not as reliable as silicone, subject to hardening. A nitrile combo valve, made of the same material then would be less reliable than silcone and/or a separate metal bypass. As long as separate bypass is made, and is used in all the high line filters, pass on the cheaper combo valve design.
Many companies use this practice, an example would be alkaline batteries, a lot of store brands are re labeled. [censored] I recall back in the CPU cartridge days they were known for putting faster CPUs in them but set them at lower speeds, an example when I bought a 750Mhz and opened it to find it really had a 850Mhz CPU on the PCB. It's is all about filling the market. These companies don't make the majority of their money on the flagship product, it's the mass production items sold in bulk is where they make their money aka all the off brand Wix filters being sold.
Not logical to me that Wix would allow a made for to sell the same filter with a generic name like AE with the same efficiency and media as it's premium filter in this case Wix and Napa Gold for an econo price under another name.
Whether it's Purolator or Wix neither is going to make that standard parctice as that would put their name branded filters in jeopordy. That would bwe illogical to me.
So, in the abscence of proof to show that the media and eficiency are as efficient it's only common sense says that are lower than the branded filters.
As for combo valve, the OP's referenced Motorcraft post says a nitrile is not as reliable as silicone, subject to hardening. A nitrile combo valve, made of the same material then would be less reliable than silcone and/or a separate metal bypass. As long as separate bypass is made, and is used in all the high line filters, pass on the cheaper combo valve design.
Many companies use this practice, an example would be alkaline batteries, a lot of store brands are re labeled. [censored] I recall back in the CPU cartridge days they were known for putting faster CPUs in them but set them at lower speeds, an example when I bought a 750Mhz and opened it to find it really had a 850Mhz CPU on the PCB. It's is all about filling the market. These companies don't make the majority of their money on the flagship product, it's the mass production items sold in bulk is where they make their money aka all the off brand Wix filters being sold.
Filters aren't CPU's. And afaik, speeds there too are measured on bench tests to prove them.
Quote:
Simple though, if it's the same, post up a published AE efficiency like Wix/NG does to prove it's as good.
Quote:
Simple though, if it's the same, post up a published AE efficiency like Wix/NG does to prove it's as good.
Originally Posted By: UnexplodedCow
As for Wix using the combo valve: we've established they do. I'd also love to see some proof (based on actual tests) that a combo valve is inferior to other designs, and in what way. One example from someone is not qualifying.
I'd bet a nitrite combo valve at -25 deg F isn't going to work very well ... it would basically be rock hard and not flex if required. It has to flex to allow oil to bypass the filter.
At least a silicone combo valve would have a chance. But I still don't like the design.
As for Wix using the combo valve: we've established they do. I'd also love to see some proof (based on actual tests) that a combo valve is inferior to other designs, and in what way. One example from someone is not qualifying.
I'd bet a nitrite combo valve at -25 deg F isn't going to work very well ... it would basically be rock hard and not flex if required. It has to flex to allow oil to bypass the filter.
At least a silicone combo valve would have a chance. But I still don't like the design.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
At least a silicone combo valve would have a chance. But I still don't like the design.
+1
At least a silicone combo valve would have a chance. But I still don't like the design.
+1
Originally Posted By: sayjac
Quote:
Simple though, if it's the same, post up a published AE efficiency like Wix/NG does to prove it's as good.
It's a little hard if there are not any numbers published. I am not going to pay for testing to satisfy you when I am perfectly fine with what I have seen on the net and in person. I am still waiting for you to prove me wrong with more than some dirty filters from another manufacture.
Quote:
Simple though, if it's the same, post up a published AE efficiency like Wix/NG does to prove it's as good.
It's a little hard if there are not any numbers published. I am not going to pay for testing to satisfy you when I am perfectly fine with what I have seen on the net and in person. I am still waiting for you to prove me wrong with more than some dirty filters from another manufacture.
Quote:
It's a little hard if there are not any numbers published. I am not going to pay for testing to satisfy you when I am perfectly fine with what I have seen on the net and in person. I am still waiting for you to prove me wrong with more than some dirty filters from another manufacture.
LOL.
You're the one claiming they are same, prove it. Nice try.
If you're fine using them, great, doesn't make them identical to a Wix/NG though. That's what I said.
It's a little hard if there are not any numbers published. I am not going to pay for testing to satisfy you when I am perfectly fine with what I have seen on the net and in person. I am still waiting for you to prove me wrong with more than some dirty filters from another manufacture.
LOL.
Originally Posted By: sayjac
Quote:
It's a little hard if there are not any numbers published. I am not going to pay for testing to satisfy you when I am perfectly fine with what I have seen on the net and in person. I am still waiting for you to prove me wrong with more than some dirty filters from another manufacture.
LOL.
You're the one claiming they are same, prove it. Nice try.
Again I have shown photographic proof and you say that it is not so prove why it is not, this is not a one sided argument.
Quote:
It's a little hard if there are not any numbers published. I am not going to pay for testing to satisfy you when I am perfectly fine with what I have seen on the net and in person. I am still waiting for you to prove me wrong with more than some dirty filters from another manufacture.
LOL.
Again I have shown photographic proof and you say that it is not so prove why it is not, this is not a one sided argument.
The youtube video you made shows right now, what looks to be as Wix made filter, it doesn't prove it's the same efficiency as the Wix 51372. Or, in other words the same filter.
Post a published efficiency showing the AE has the same 'beta' as the Wix, then you will have gone a long way to proving with the exception of a less durable nitrile combo valve it's the the same/identical as the Wix.
Without the published efficiency, all your video shows is a filter made by Wix (likely), with the Auto Extra name written on it that looks like a Wix. That's it. Can't make it clearer.
Post a published efficiency showing the AE has the same 'beta' as the Wix, then you will have gone a long way to proving with the exception of a less durable nitrile combo valve it's the the same/identical as the Wix.
Without the published efficiency, all your video shows is a filter made by Wix (likely), with the Auto Extra name written on it that looks like a Wix. That's it. Can't make it clearer.
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