For me, it is all about the type of driving I do with the vehicle; severe or not severe service. If over 80% of what my vehicle did was highway driving 30 minutes or more continuous (without stop and go traffic), I would consider 10k oil changes. But I never do that. I drive short hops, I drive on dirt roads, I idle a good bit, some light towing and about 40-50% of the time it is highway driving over 30 minutes. So for me, it is always 5k changes. That is just my reasoning for me; I don't try to convince others one way or the other.
Are the days of the 10k OCI over with?
- Thread starter zerosoma
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The ZZ engines had flaws that led to stuck rings - the cause was clogged oil return holes in the pistons. The holes had too small diameter, there were too few holes and the use of average HC based oil with little cleaning abilities for 15 000 km caused clogging, piston overheating and stuck rings. Castrol with 100% HC base oil was used for most of the oil changes, Esso Ultron with some esters was unfortunately used only once. Toping the oil with 1 liter of Mobil1 ESP did not save the engine either - no surprise there as the holes were already clogged. Short block replacement was the only choice.
Celica owners were able to fail the engine in less than 30 000 km. My father's engine lasted 120 000+ km before the oil consumption was high enough to require servicing. I really believe had the service used oil with a reasonable amount of group V base oil and had the OCIs been shorter, the holes would be reasonably clean. For some strange reason, Toyota needed several updates to the rings/pistons on the 1zz-fe engines to finally fix the issue.
As with my cars, I usually have no idea if there is a hidden issue in the engine I strongly prefer shorter OCIs and oils that meet more demanding approvals. This way the oil is ready to face some unexpected challenges like missed OCI, high engine loads for extended time in hot climate, etc.
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They sure aren't "over with."
The Taurus is on ~12.5k mile OCI And climbing.. Please let me know if anyone thinks I should get a UOA, and from where. Will be closer to 15k soon...
The Taurus is on ~12.5k mile OCI And climbing.. Please let me know if anyone thinks I should get a UOA, and from where. Will be closer to 15k soon...
I don't know. Oil was changed at 269.890 and currently over 273,800 and STILL at 80%. Lots to say that it isn't over and lots to say that it is. Outside temperature, operation, stop and start,etc it really is hard to say. If I can go 10k with less than a quart of top of on a GDi or T-GDi then I am gonna let it ride. Especially if the MM isn't too low, having good oil/air filtration along with solid fuel then most likely. On a side note, I still would be more comfortable changing just the oil at say around 20% and refill if I was using a FU,M1,RP,etc oil filter. Every story is different
Boy I sure wish my Mazda dipstick was that easy to read!
I bet that Focus wasn't the GDI version. My GDI Focus turns the oil black very quickly so I won't extend my OCI past 5 or 6K on synthetic...the oil in my 2.5 Escape (basically the same engine but port injected) stays much cleaner and has a 1.2 quart greater capacity sump (4.5 vs. 5.7qt.) so I have no problem extending the OCI out to 7.5K.Ah yes, the old wives tales never die.
I did 10k on Toyota 0w20 in my focus and it did the job fine.
I go no longer than 5K on all my cars. Makes me feel better.5K for me.
Fortunately I bought a new 2014 Focus with the 5 speed manual and it's been totally reliable.
(I was aware of the DCT issues (it's not a CVT) and avoided it)....besides I like driving stick except in traffic which is now everywhere.
The Mazda MZR derived Ford Duratec engines are very good, long lasting engines but as I stated previously...the GDI version darkens the oil much sooner than the PI ones...it's soot so I change it more frequently.
No and many UOA's prove that.
I agree with you
. Us auto technicians normally do 5k OCI for a very good reason
This is a good point. A decade or two ago most of the manufacturers built their engines really tight. Both Toyota and Honda manufactured engines, that with good care could easily go 300,000 miles or more...... And didn't burn or dilute the oil in the crankcase doing it.
This is no longer the case. Low tension piston rings, along with direct fuel injection have polluted engine oil in as little as a thousand miles. Not to mention they've all gone turbo crazy, which puts even more demands on the oil in them.
There are literally dozens of Internet videos showing both severe fuel dilution of the oil, as well as gunked up piston rings, Many of them have been posted here.
On Toyota and Honda engines that used to be built tight as a drum, before all of these government mileage regulations started piling up, are now forcing the automakers to go to these new manufacturing standards of "free rotating" crankshafts, coupled with low tension rings, and direct injection.
The new game in town is to get as much power and mileage from as small of a displacement engine as possible. That is difficult, if not outright impossible to accomplish without pushing the oil in these modern engines to the max.
And there is little to no doubt the government, along with the EPA is pushing all of this to the max. They HATE anything that runs on fossil based fuels. And they couldn't care less how much the average consumer dislikes it.
I don't believe the idea that is propagated here on BITOG that modern engines don't last is backed by fact but all just emotion/"I've heard/read" by many folks that don't like change or things that are new. Do we actually know modern engines don't last as long with proper care? Of course mpgs are being pushed....a classic from my dad who is in his mid-'80s..."Why wouldn't you want good mpgs/save money?" I have a 10 year old Focus I bought new that is DI but not turbo...130K/runs "like new" on 5W20 and gets nearly 40mpgs on the highway. I'd say that has lasted well beyond what average people would consider a reasonable time to own a vehicle. The modern turbos are to help give the econo boxes some reasonable performance vs. a car like my Focus that is a bit of a dog. What I will agree with is that the modern engines require more care than many are used to giving that were driving older port-injected cars that were more able to withstand "oops I forgot my oil change this time" which for average American's is likely quite the norm. Govt mpg requirements have been around a long time even when Honda/Toyota were making engines that were "tight as a drum".
Agree. People looking at the past through rose colored glasses. IIRC in the late 1990's early 2000's Toyota had a big problem with coked up piston rings or sludge in some of their engines.
Toyota Agrees to Sludge Settlement for Consumers
The agreement will allow consumers whose claims have been denied by Toyota to submit those claims to a third-party mediator at no cost for binding arbitrat
www.consumeraffairs.com
I blame CAFE/govt/EPA/hippies/DI/turbos.Agree. People looking at the past through rose colored glasses. IIRC in the late 1990's early 2000's Toyota had a big problem with coked up piston rings or sludge in some of their engines.
Toyota Agrees to Sludge Settlement for Consumers
The agreement will allow consumers whose claims have been denied by Toyota to submit those claims to a third-party mediator at no cost for binding arbitrat
Well I look at it this way. While me, you, or anyone else cannot produce a bible full of documentation on this, 25 years ago, before all of this CAFE crap started, it was very common to hear about these Toyota and Hondas not only going these long distances, but not drinking oil doing it.
In fact it's how Toyota built its reputation for such handsome engine reliability. Honda as well. Today it's a much different story. Stories abound on Honda's fuel dilution issues. And Toyota's low tension piston ring problems.
In fact the Toyota, "Car Care Nut", who is supposedly some type of "Master Toyota Technician", shows a lengthy, expensive rebuild of one such engine that had scored cylinder walls from frozen gunked up rings.
And that engine had religious 10K oil and filter changes. He mentioned several times not to go that far with these new Toyota engines. (5K max.)
Now, you can believe him, or dismiss it. But I'm not hearing about how far these new engines go..... I am hearing about a lot of problems with fuel dilution and coked up rings.
And I have a "dog in this fight", so to speak. My 2018 Toyota Camry has the new AKS-25 2.5L 4 cylinder engine. (Or whatever it's called). I change oil and filter twice a year. And I don't drive it all that much.
Do I really "need" to? Probably not, but as I've always said, oil and filters are cheap. And changing it is very easy to do. For me the peace of mind is worth it.
Honda Civic's were and still are known for burning oil past 150k. I have literally never seen one not have a plume of smoke following it down the highway. That & older Tercels, and yes they still ran albeit poorly I am sure.
People like you love to blame CAFE for all sorts of things but the real truth is what would happened in Honda or Toyota said "We don't care about the EPA or if our engines pollute more. You'll still by them!" Their public image would be tarnished beyond recognition. Get with the times or get left behind. Resources are finite and willfully wasting them in the pursuit or "I don't care, not my problem." is just stupid.
That guy showed one engine, on one video and we have to take it at face value. It was put on Youtube for clicks, end of story. It's a money maker and he's not doing a service to the community.
We all have a dog in this fight. We all love changing oil and the idea it might last longer than we think but also REALLY love changing oil.
Personally if I drove less than 8k miles a year I would sample at 6 months and change especially if I was short tripping the car a lot. So your not wrong.
I had a '92 Toyota Truck with the 22RE and several Hondas from the 90s-00s. All good vehicles but nothing I'd call any more reliable than today's vehicles....each had their share of issues. The Car Care Nut - this has been beat to death on BITOG. He has an engine that was likely dealer serviced with crappy bulk dyno/syn blend vs. a good synthetic. Who knows the history and extrapolating that info to "all new cars" is worthless. You don't hear anything good b/c as usual, nobody goes online to tell you "yep, drove my 8 year old Camry today and nothing happened"...confirmation bias at it's finest. Yes you are correct...it's always been wise to just chnagae your oil regularly and now days 5K works really well for just about anyone "normal".
They are the ones who are pushing the automakers into all of this. Do you honestly think they would be spending tens of millions of dollars developing this problematic crap, if they weren't forced into it?
We're right back to having the government trying to legislate technology with laws and dates. With all of it based on nothing more than some stupid political agenda. And much like what they're doing with EV's and solar panels, the results are never that good, and the citizen ends up paying the price.
Everyone like to jump up and down, crying for clean air and water. This isn't the way to go about it. All it does accomplish, is to achieve votes for the administration who is pushing it.
I don't care if you're talking about cars, (CAFE), gas stoves, or electric mowers and water heaters. It's all the same crap.
Can't really watch Car Care Nut anymore. Every time he does that smug shoulder shrug/cocked head/smirk thing after asking a rhetorical question, which is at least once a video, I cringe hard.
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