are small trucks gone?

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
The manufacturers are missing out on the true COMPACT pickups.



I disagree. I've done the small truck thing and I would not do it again. A Honda Accord with a trailer is a far better choice than a small pickup.

And an F150 is far more capable, it can actually do real work.

 

[exranger06]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
The manufacturers are missing out on the true COMPACT pickups.



I disagree. I've done the small truck thing and I would not do it again. A Honda Accord with a trailer is a far better choice than a small pickup.

And an F150 is far more capable, it can actually do real work.

Please define "real work."

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: supton
If there was a market, there'd be sales.


There is a whole lot more to it than that. Namely profit margins, CAFE, and safety equipment. Still, even with barriers to entry in a segment, ignoring it is shortsighted. Toyota is hanging on to this segment and GM is getting back into it for a reason.

Quote:

Compact trucks got sales because they were cheap to buy.


Not necessarily. My parents bought a small truck specifically because they prefer driving smaller vehicles, and because full size trucks barely fit in their garage. Cost was way down on the priorities list.

I bought a small truck because the size was just right for me.

Quote:

Need a full frame with towing or heavy weight? Well, if it's a working truck... why not a real truck? Instead of paying nearly the same cost as a full sized, just buy a full sized in the first place.

Oh please...this again. Is your VW not a real car? It's small, so it can't be real. You need a Crown Vic or Sedan DeVille if you want a real car. Why didn't you buy one of those instead?

My "fake truck" has done more "real truck" stuff than the vast majority of "real trucks." Tens of thousands of miles of towing, and over 1K lbs. in the bed more times than I can remember. One time when it was covered in dust and mud, I took a load of scrap metal to the recycler...when they were weighing it, they put it down as a "brown F-150" on the scale slip...the truck is a black Ranger. No, I have never hauled a 4x8 sheet of plywood in it, because I have never needed to (according to many 1/2 ton "real truck" owners, trucks are for hauling a 4x8 sheet of plywood, and in the off chance they ever do that, they need a crew cab Long Horn Texas Edition).

My truck has also spent most of its life in urban areas. There have been MANY times I was very happy to have a small truck that could fit in tight parallel spots, alleys, etc. My truck has been parked and driven through many spots a full size simply will not fit.

And beyond the parking advantages, smaller vehicles just drive nice.

No other vehicle I'm aware of does all of those things as well. With a car, I'd sacrifice payload and towing ability, not to mention durability. With a full size, I'd sacrifice maneuverability and space efficiency.

Quote:

When I was shopping I couldn't justify paying nearly the same price for a Tacoma as for a Tundra, not when the Tundra would "do it better" at a slight mpg penalty (which I didn't care about as it was a low mile/year vehicle). If a Taco had been half priced I would have bought differently.


When I was shopping, I couldn't justify the inconvenience of carrying around extra space all the time.

Why would you expect the Tacoma to be half priced from the Tundra? It isn't half of a Tundra. It's more than 3/4ths of a Tundra, so I would expect it to be more than 3/4ths the price of one.

Originally Posted By: KzMitch
I think there's a market for them. But much of it has to do with profit. There's a lot more "meat on the bone" with a $35,000 sale than a $14,500 sale.


Exactly. It's not that the market isn't there, it's that there are a number of outside variables working against small trucks. Larger trucks are easier to profit on.

Unfortunately, our gov't has mandated small trucks out of profitability. The CAFE regs and mandated complexity of vehicles is just making it too difficult to build and sell good small trucks in the US. Most of the world has them, and buys them in huge numbers, but they aren't saddled with all the regulations we are.

The new Colorado is a good shot, and I have high hopes for it. The problem is though, the outside is almost the size of a Silverado, and the inside is about the size of my Ranger's interior.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: exranger06
Anyone who buys a truck just in case they need it 1-2 times a year is a fool. They would be much better off buying a regular car, and go to Home Depot and rent an F150 for the day for those 1-2 days a year they need a truck.


Sure. But in my case it's a 30 mile drive to Home Depot. Each way. Same as it is to a car rental place. So any rental will be a full day affair.

Ergo, since I can justify N+1 vehicles I might as well have a truck. It's actually nicer than that, my cars this year run all seasons while my truck got snow tires. My cars can stay FWD while the truck can be an old school part time 4x4.

Now, if I were to buy a truck for my every day driver and put on the miles I do, now that would, I agree, be foolish.

 

[01rangerxl]

Buying a huge full size truck to avoid a 30 mile drive to get a rental 1-2 times a year makes absolutely no sense to me. That makes far less sense than people only buying as much truck as they need.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Oh please...this again. Is your VW not a real car? It's small, so it can't be real. You need a Crown Vic or Sedan DeVille if you want a real car. Why didn't you buy one of those instead?


Oh please. Name a day here on this site where someone doesn't say that FWD is junk, or that I should buy a Panther for a cheap long distance commuter. VW long has the rep of being a lousy car too. And Toyota's as being boring appliances which are best avoided.

All vehicles get knocked by someone.

Quote:
My "fake truck" has done more "real truck" stuff than the vast majority of "real trucks."


I'm not knocking (much) small trucks. I used to own one, did what I wanted at the time, sometimes I wouldn't mind having it again. Lots of advantages. I just think most people aren't willing to put up with a smaller truck, that's all. Not when there is no real difference.

In urban areas I get that a smaller truck makes sense. If I lived in an urban area I'd probably have a small truck. Maybe.

My (improperly written) knock was geared towards non-framed light trucks. Most people don't want them. If no frame then it's not real, right? I think a non-framed truck would serve most people just fine. But if you're buying a truck to be a truck, and not something that plays as a truck for a few times a year, then get a real framed truck. Not a trucklet, where you pay extra for car-like performance.

Quote:
Why would you expect the Tacoma to be half priced from the Tundra? It isn't half of a Tundra. It's more than 3/4ths of a Tundra, so I would expect it to be more than 3/4ths the price of one.


It costs as much to buy, new or used, if not more, despite the size shrink. At least in 2013 when I was looking. I live in a semi-rural area and think a town is "big" when it gets traffic lights. Ergo, a small truck doesn't do much for me. When it costs as much to buy, feed and run--what is my gain? With no parking issues I have no incentive to look.

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: supton
I think a non-framed truck would serve most people just fine. But if you're buying a truck to be a truck, and not something that plays as a truck for a few times a year, then get a real framed truck. Not a trucklet, where you pay extra for car-like performance.


Well yeah, I wouldn't buy a unibody car with the roof chopped off. I'd break it. That's why I did buy a truck with a full ladder frame, but I didn't need a huge one. I got exactly what I needed.

Quote:

It costs as much to buy, new or used, if not more, despite the size shrink. At least in 2013 when I was looking. I live in a semi-rural area and think a town is "big" when it gets traffic lights. Ergo, a small truck doesn't do much for me. When it costs as much to buy, feed and run--what is my gain? With no parking issues I have no incentive to look.


And a lot of people live in much more densely populated areas than that. What is "no real difference" in a wide open place can be the difference between getting a parking spot or not where I live. Excess size just doesn't help me out much and winds up being an inconvenience. In my parent's case, a lot of full size trucks simply won't work with their tricky driveway/garage whereas a small truck handles it with ease.

Personally, if someone wants to buy a crew cab long bed to drive to the grocery store for a couple things a couple times a year, that's fine. I really don't care. I just hate that buying too much is becoming the only option.

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: supton
or that I should buy a Panther for a cheap long distance commuter


Come to think of it, that's a pretty ironic example. If size/cost are everything, the vast majority of cars on the road should be Crown Vics. Why would anyone put up with anything smaller?

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: supton
or that I should buy a Panther for a cheap long distance commuter


Come to think of it, that's a pretty ironic example. If size/cost are everything, the vast majority of cars on the road should be Crown Vics. Why would anyone put up with anything smaller?

It is, isn't it?

I bought a small station wagon when I was expecting family, and I think it worked well; but it irked me to no end when I would use it on the weekends to move stuff. Always too small. But during the week it was just fine. Great size. For a commuter. Still like the size for a commuter. As I think about its replacement it too will be a compact. If it's just me and up to two kids, why do I need more? A Vic is going to be more of a nuisance in those cases.

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: exranger06
Please define "real work."


OK, fine, I will let you try to trap me with this one. Because I actually use my 2 F150's for real work. And, I'll caution you to not be judgmental towards others who you think "don't need" a real pickup. It's up to them to determine what they need or want. I understand many people think pickup trucks don't get effectively used. What they don't see is the boat towed on the weekend, or the firewood or, or or. The reality is that a good number of us actually use them as designed, and then some.

From the Police blogs: It is not uncommon to find a pick-up truck or some form of flat bed hauling a load of sand, dirt, gravel, or other aggregate down the road.

This is what I tow regularly: A glider

 

[exranger06]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: exranger06
Please define "real work."


OK, fine, I will let you try to trap me with this one. Because I actually use my 2 F150's for real work. And, I'll caution you to not be judgmental towards others who you think "don't need" a real pickup. It's up to them to determine what they need or want. I understand many people think pickup trucks don't get effectively used. What they don't see is the boat towed on the weekend, or the firewood or, or or. The reality is that a good number of us actually use them as designed, and then some.

From the Police blogs: It is not uncommon to find a pick-up truck or some form of flat bed hauling a load of sand, dirt, gravel, or other aggregate down the road.

This is what I tow regularly: A glider

So, according to you, a small truck cannot do "real work" because it cannot tow or haul as much as a bigger truck. You posted a pic of an F150 doing "real work," yet it's not capable of towing the large yacht you also pictured being towed by the white Dodge. So, since the F150 doesn't have the same capabilites as a larger truck, (following your logic) it can't do "real work." Yet you claim it can...

I never judged anyone who has a big truck, and I CERTAINLY never said NOBODY needs one. Don't put words in my mouth. I know that if I see a person driving one, even if it has an empty bed, that he might still have a genuine need for the truck. Heck, I drive my truck with an empty bed all the time. I said that people who DO in fact hardly EVER use the bed (whether I see it or not), is being foolish and would be better off with a car.

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: Cujet

Just FYI, that's a Ranger...

 

[Nick1994]

I wouldn't own a small pickup, it just wouldn't suit my needs. Sure I drive a VW Beetle now, but if I had a pickup I'd be doing other things with it other than just being my daily commuter. A Ranger can't tow a car hauler trailer with a car on it, that's 5-6k pounds. I also own an ATV and it won't fit in a small truck's bed with the tailgate closed. If the tailgate is open then I can't put much else in the bed without it flying out at 80 mph on the freeway. Even if the tailgate could close it would be weighed down too low to go where I need it to go off-road. All of this is possible with a half ton. I currently use my grandmother's Trailblazer for my truck needs and have pulled car trailers and have put about 800 pounds of gravel and sand bags in the back and bricks. A larger SUV can often serve the purposes of a truck if you have a trailer (I have).

The purposes I see for a small pickup would be if someone doesn't heavy haul ever and would never plan to, or for my grandfather who could use it to scoot around town and we can throw things in the bed.

 

[exranger06]

Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: Cujet

Just FYI, that's a Ranger...

LOL, my work computer has that picture blocked, so I didn't even see it at first. Yeah those Rangers are so useless! Can't do any real work at all...

 

[Nick1994]

Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: Cujet

Just FYI, that's a Ranger...
So you're saying an 02' Ranger could haul that? Lol

 

[exranger06]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: Cujet

Just FYI, that's a Ranger...
So you're saying an 02' Ranger could haul that? Lol

An 02 could haul it just as well as the 1980-something in that picture. The Ranger payload has stayed pretty much the same throughout its years. If anything, the 02 might have a little bigger payload than the older ones.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: Cujet

Just FYI, that's a Ranger...


I have to wonder if that sucker is overloaded, and begging to snap a leaf spring, even if driven really slowly.

But it's clearly being well-used.

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: Cujet

Just FYI, that's a Ranger...
So you're saying an 02' Ranger could haul that? Lol


Please, explain to us why it couldn't. I'm dying to know.

My truck has the same frame as the one pictured. In fact, the body of that truck could be bolted on to mine since they are both Super Cabs. My truck probably has higher spring rates too.

But carry on with your bashing with no knowledge of the subject matter...

 

[Cujet]

I love that picture of the Ranger. Too small, though it is, it's tasked with a big job! You simply asked me to define real work. So I gave you a few ideas of what I consider "real work".

Really, though, the Ranger's real world towing prowess is not all that great. Hence the trend towards bigger trucks. Even a 17 foot Boston Whaler is a bit dicey behind a Ranger.

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
I love that picture of the Ranger. Too small, though it is, it's tasked with a big job!

Really, though, the Ranger's real world towing prowess is not all that great. Hence the trend towards bigger trucks. Even a 17 foot Boston Whaler is a bit dicey behind a Ranger.


If I routinely towed something large, I would opt for a larger truck. Mostly for the frontal area and weight more than anything.

But for my towing needs, the Ranger works pretty well. When I tow, it's usually a single axle utility, open or closed...the trailer is smaller than the truck.

When my friends and I were on an ATV kick a few years ago, my Ranger ended up being the default tow vehicle. My friend had a lifted up crew cab Titan, but we couldn't get ATVs in or out of the bed because it was too [censored] tall. The Ranger could deal with up to four ATVs (one in the bed, three on a trailer) with less hassle than the Titan could.

It's really about having the right tool for the job. You don't use a sledgehammer to drive nails.