I see more and more Hyundais in driveways around my house where just a couple of years ago it was Mercedes lexus Bmw People don't want a money pit in repairs and service they want reliability. It's not a money thing in my north jersey neighborhood most people can afford what they want and have no reason to buy a nameplate to show off.
Anyone else having a good lol at Hyundai?
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Originally Posted By: css9450
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
Originally Posted By: css9450
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
They're a brand with no heart, no heritage, no roots, and no soul. Fine for low to mid end cars, but empty nameplates don't mesh with high end lux or sport. People looking to spend are looking for a marque.
You mean, like Lexus? They've been here since, what, 19-aught-89 or so? Almost as long as Hyundai.
See the concluding paragraph of my 9:26am post please.
I'm not sure I follow. Toyota and Nissan didn't launch Lexus and Infiniti under their own names, they created new ones. Why would they want to distance themselves from their long manufacturing heritage?
Not sure why its hard to follow, both luxury brands were launched by Toyota and Nissan and flow from their long and rich manufacturing heritage.
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
Originally Posted By: css9450
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
They're a brand with no heart, no heritage, no roots, and no soul. Fine for low to mid end cars, but empty nameplates don't mesh with high end lux or sport. People looking to spend are looking for a marque.
You mean, like Lexus? They've been here since, what, 19-aught-89 or so? Almost as long as Hyundai.
See the concluding paragraph of my 9:26am post please.
I'm not sure I follow. Toyota and Nissan didn't launch Lexus and Infiniti under their own names, they created new ones. Why would they want to distance themselves from their long manufacturing heritage?
Not sure why its hard to follow, both luxury brands were launched by Toyota and Nissan and flow from their long and rich manufacturing heritage.
Hyundai/Kia cater to low income folks. $0 down, no payment for three months, will finance "bad credit". so it's easy to see why Hyundai/Kia have grown alot in America. It's not so much about their image, it's WHO they are selling their cars to. I'm not saying THIS is everyone who buys Hyundai/Kia. But, GENERALLY, it appears to be this way.
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Recently drove by a Hyundai / Equus dealer, and had no idea what an "Equus.." was... checked it out, it's a big 4 door sedan... listing at $ 63 900 cdn...!
Just a couple of questions.... 1st , how do you pronounce " Equus..."
And who in their right mind would ever buy one...?
Hyundai make excellent low to low-mid priced cars. Somebody needs to tell Hyundai their luxury cars are missing the most important detail... the right badge.
And without that precious brand name, which is THE REASON many buy those cars in the first place, a $ 63 900 (starting...) Hyundai, or Equus, whatever, is a very hard sell, no matter how good the actual car is.
Note: The "Signature..." trim is $ 63 900
The "Ultimate..." trim level ( yes, its called that...) is an astounding $ 71 000 .....!
Just a couple of questions.... 1st , how do you pronounce " Equus..."
And who in their right mind would ever buy one...?
Hyundai make excellent low to low-mid priced cars. Somebody needs to tell Hyundai their luxury cars are missing the most important detail... the right badge.
And without that precious brand name, which is THE REASON many buy those cars in the first place, a $ 63 900 (starting...) Hyundai, or Equus, whatever, is a very hard sell, no matter how good the actual car is.
Note: The "Signature..." trim is $ 63 900
The "Ultimate..." trim level ( yes, its called that...) is an astounding $ 71 000 .....!
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You can lease a 2015 Hyundai Equus Ultimate for only $ 1123 a month, zero down... for 3 years, that is over 40 grand ....!
Pretty solid depreciation built into those numbers...
Pretty solid depreciation built into those numbers...
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
That historical essence is not found in S. Korea that I know of.
Interesting opinions, lets just summarize your knowledge about Korea right there and leave out the rest.
Lol, Korea was under Japanese colonial rule. Japan > Korea.
I tried to drop a hint about unfounded (hint: subjective) statements, but by all means keep them rolling.
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
That historical essence is not found in S. Korea that I know of.
Interesting opinions, lets just summarize your knowledge about Korea right there and leave out the rest.
Lol, Korea was under Japanese colonial rule. Japan > Korea.
I tried to drop a hint about unfounded (hint: subjective) statements, but by all means keep them rolling.
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wemay
Site Donor 2023
It doesn't matter:
How reliable, comfortable, responsive, well priced, easy it is to work on or safe the brand is.
If you don't like the nameplate, you're not buying it.
Which is fine, there are droves of consumers that do and will.
How reliable, comfortable, responsive, well priced, easy it is to work on or safe the brand is.
If you don't like the nameplate, you're not buying it.
Which is fine, there are droves of consumers that do and will.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
That historical essence is not found in S. Korea that I know of.
Interesting opinions, lets just summarize your knowledge about Korea right there and leave out the rest.
Lol, Korea was under Japanese colonial rule. Japan > Korea.
I tried to drop a hint about unfounded (hint: subjective) statements, but by all means keep them rolling.
+1
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
That historical essence is not found in S. Korea that I know of.
Interesting opinions, lets just summarize your knowledge about Korea right there and leave out the rest.
Lol, Korea was under Japanese colonial rule. Japan > Korea.
I tried to drop a hint about unfounded (hint: subjective) statements, but by all means keep them rolling.
+1
Hyundai Genesis and the more expensive Equus didn't sell well because people who spends upward $50k or more don't even think about Hyundai when they are looking to buy their car(s). They think about luxury brands such as MB, BMW, Cadillac, Lexus ...
To success in selling luxury cars/SUV's at price above $40-50k, Hyundai should have a separate brand/dealer/showroom with trained sale person to carter to those buyers.
To success in selling luxury cars/SUV's at price above $40-50k, Hyundai should have a separate brand/dealer/showroom with trained sale person to carter to those buyers.
Originally Posted By: geeman789
You can lease a 2015 Hyundai Equus Ultimate for only $ 1123 a month, zero down... for 3 years, that is over 40 grand ....!
Pretty solid depreciation built into those numbers...
There's some reality. Resale always tells you how the market feels about any car. And folks who say it doesn't matter are just not being serious.
Hyundai/Kia should stick to the market it knows, cheap reliable cars with better than normal equipment levels. I test drove their Elantra about two years ago and felt the floorboard flutter over some bumps. Haven't felt that in a few decades from anything else.
Their fuel economy debacle and the ridiculous HP claims that are not reality simply show that they know how to push consumer's buttons. Great marketing, mundane cars with high levels of equipment yet nothing for the serious driver...
You can lease a 2015 Hyundai Equus Ultimate for only $ 1123 a month, zero down... for 3 years, that is over 40 grand ....!
Pretty solid depreciation built into those numbers...
There's some reality. Resale always tells you how the market feels about any car. And folks who say it doesn't matter are just not being serious.
Hyundai/Kia should stick to the market it knows, cheap reliable cars with better than normal equipment levels. I test drove their Elantra about two years ago and felt the floorboard flutter over some bumps. Haven't felt that in a few decades from anything else.
Their fuel economy debacle and the ridiculous HP claims that are not reality simply show that they know how to push consumer's buttons. Great marketing, mundane cars with high levels of equipment yet nothing for the serious driver...
Originally Posted By: wemay
It doesn't matter:
How reliable, comfortable, responsive, well priced, easy it is to work on or safe the brand is.
If you don't like the nameplate, you're not buying it.
Which is fine, there are droves of consumers that do and will.
+2, Brand perception/image is probably 50% of the equation.
It doesn't matter:
How reliable, comfortable, responsive, well priced, easy it is to work on or safe the brand is.
If you don't like the nameplate, you're not buying it.
Which is fine, there are droves of consumers that do and will.
+2, Brand perception/image is probably 50% of the equation.
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Hyundai Genesis and the more expensive Equus didn't sell well because people who spends upward $50k or more don't even think about Hyundai when they are looking to buy their car(s). They think about luxury brands such as MB, BMW, Cadillac, Lexus ...
To success in selling luxury cars/SUV's at price above $40-50k, Hyundai should have a separate brand/dealer/showroom with trained sale person to carter to those buyers.
People who knock down Hyundai (which includes the Hyundai Corporation itself!) should have studied LG (Lucky Goldstar, remember them?) and Samsung to see how a brand can go from being complete junk to top of the line in less than a decade. Go to an appliance store or high end kitchen remodeling place to imagine what could be (have been?) the future for Hyundai.
Hyundai Genesis and the more expensive Equus didn't sell well because people who spends upward $50k or more don't even think about Hyundai when they are looking to buy their car(s). They think about luxury brands such as MB, BMW, Cadillac, Lexus ...
To success in selling luxury cars/SUV's at price above $40-50k, Hyundai should have a separate brand/dealer/showroom with trained sale person to carter to those buyers.
People who knock down Hyundai (which includes the Hyundai Corporation itself!) should have studied LG (Lucky Goldstar, remember them?) and Samsung to see how a brand can go from being complete junk to top of the line in less than a decade. Go to an appliance store or high end kitchen remodeling place to imagine what could be (have been?) the future for Hyundai.
I have a friend who decided on buying a Genesis. He was looking at both BMW and the small Mercedes. He could afford any of the cars, but ended up with the Genesis due to the features. He did say the buying experience was awful. He said it was like buying a car in the 70's. The Hyundai dealers ARE NOT used to dealing with a higher income person.
They are used to payment buyers looking at the Accents and want a payment less than $200.00.
This is one of the issues selling luxury cars next to econo boxes.
They are used to payment buyers looking at the Accents and want a payment less than $200.00.
This is one of the issues selling luxury cars next to econo boxes.
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
They're a brand with no heart, no heritage, no roots, and no soul. Fine for low to mid end cars, but empty nameplates don't mesh with high end lux or sport. People looking to spend are looking for a marque. Hyundai ain't it. How many successful sales professionals are pulling up in a Hyundai vs. a Beemer, 'Cedes, Caddy, or etc?
How much can you say the latest Volvo lineup has in common with the pre 1990's lineup? There's absolutely no lineage that you can say that "yes, that's undenyably a Volvo!"
In the 1990s, there was gossip that Porsche was considering a SEDAN! and Volvo might make a SUV someday. Everyone laughed at the idea...but here they are, making exactly what people are willing to buy, and making millions at it.
Hyundai is getting exactly the success they deserve. I have no qualms about their cars. Well made (comparatively speaking) and competitively priced.
They're a brand with no heart, no heritage, no roots, and no soul. Fine for low to mid end cars, but empty nameplates don't mesh with high end lux or sport. People looking to spend are looking for a marque. Hyundai ain't it. How many successful sales professionals are pulling up in a Hyundai vs. a Beemer, 'Cedes, Caddy, or etc?
How much can you say the latest Volvo lineup has in common with the pre 1990's lineup? There's absolutely no lineage that you can say that "yes, that's undenyably a Volvo!"
In the 1990s, there was gossip that Porsche was considering a SEDAN! and Volvo might make a SUV someday. Everyone laughed at the idea...but here they are, making exactly what people are willing to buy, and making millions at it.
Hyundai is getting exactly the success they deserve. I have no qualms about their cars. Well made (comparatively speaking) and competitively priced.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: geeman789
You can lease a 2015 Hyundai Equus Ultimate for only $ 1123 a month, zero down... for 3 years, that is over 40 grand ....!
Pretty solid depreciation built into those numbers...
There's some reality. Resale always tells you how the market feels about any car. And folks who say it doesn't matter are just not being serious.
Hyundai/Kia should stick to the market it knows, cheap reliable cars with better than normal equipment levels. I test drove their Elantra about two years ago and felt the floorboard flutter over some bumps. Haven't felt that in a few decades from anything else.
Their fuel economy debacle and the ridiculous HP claims that are not reality simply show that they know how to push consumer's buttons. Great marketing, mundane cars with high levels of equipment yet nothing for the serious driver...
Valid points, but I don't think Hyundai should necessarily limit themselves to just the small/cheap segments. Companies who do that rarely achieve long term success in the US. Look at Daewoo, Suzuki, Daihatsu, and even Mitsubishi. Actually, Mitsubishi was doing okay in the US when they had some higher end offerings like the Diamante and Montero...and now they are about one gasp from death in the US because all they have are cheap, little cars.
Hyundai isn't going to get resale value overnight. The Japanese brands had been in the US for 20+ years before their cars fully made the transition from cheap, no resale throwaways to very high resale on most models. Hyundai's brand value is growing. A used 2 year old Sonata has much higher value retention now than a 2 year old Sonata 5 years ago.
And whereas their small cars were the bulk of their sales 10 years ago, now it is their midsize offerings. Sonatas and Santa Fes sell like crazy around here. The Genesis and Equus have the least volume by far, but people do buy them. Yes, usually not car people, but I doubt they walked in planning to get a Elantra and just wound up with a Genesis instead.
For relative comparison, the MSRP for the base, RWD, Genesis V6 sedan is $38K. The Lexus at that price is the FWD ES350 ($37,700). And to a lot of people who shop primarily for a badge, the Lexus will be a no brainer in that situation. BUT, as far as options/configuration goes, the RWD GS350 is really a closer competitor...and it starts at $48,600. Is the GS a more refined car? Probably. $10K more refined? I don't know.
And remember where Hyundai luxury cars were 10 years ago...XG series, first Azera, Kia Amanti. Put any one of those next to a Genesis, let alone an Equus, to see how far they have come.
Toyota had to make those baby steps too...
1980:
1990:
Originally Posted By: geeman789
You can lease a 2015 Hyundai Equus Ultimate for only $ 1123 a month, zero down... for 3 years, that is over 40 grand ....!
Pretty solid depreciation built into those numbers...
There's some reality. Resale always tells you how the market feels about any car. And folks who say it doesn't matter are just not being serious.
Hyundai/Kia should stick to the market it knows, cheap reliable cars with better than normal equipment levels. I test drove their Elantra about two years ago and felt the floorboard flutter over some bumps. Haven't felt that in a few decades from anything else.
Their fuel economy debacle and the ridiculous HP claims that are not reality simply show that they know how to push consumer's buttons. Great marketing, mundane cars with high levels of equipment yet nothing for the serious driver...
Valid points, but I don't think Hyundai should necessarily limit themselves to just the small/cheap segments. Companies who do that rarely achieve long term success in the US. Look at Daewoo, Suzuki, Daihatsu, and even Mitsubishi. Actually, Mitsubishi was doing okay in the US when they had some higher end offerings like the Diamante and Montero...and now they are about one gasp from death in the US because all they have are cheap, little cars.
Hyundai isn't going to get resale value overnight. The Japanese brands had been in the US for 20+ years before their cars fully made the transition from cheap, no resale throwaways to very high resale on most models. Hyundai's brand value is growing. A used 2 year old Sonata has much higher value retention now than a 2 year old Sonata 5 years ago.
And whereas their small cars were the bulk of their sales 10 years ago, now it is their midsize offerings. Sonatas and Santa Fes sell like crazy around here. The Genesis and Equus have the least volume by far, but people do buy them. Yes, usually not car people, but I doubt they walked in planning to get a Elantra and just wound up with a Genesis instead.
For relative comparison, the MSRP for the base, RWD, Genesis V6 sedan is $38K. The Lexus at that price is the FWD ES350 ($37,700). And to a lot of people who shop primarily for a badge, the Lexus will be a no brainer in that situation. BUT, as far as options/configuration goes, the RWD GS350 is really a closer competitor...and it starts at $48,600. Is the GS a more refined car? Probably. $10K more refined? I don't know.
And remember where Hyundai luxury cars were 10 years ago...XG series, first Azera, Kia Amanti. Put any one of those next to a Genesis, let alone an Equus, to see how far they have come.
Toyota had to make those baby steps too...
1980:
1990:
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- Messages
- 5,294
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
That historical essence is not found in S. Korea that I know of.
Interesting opinions, lets just summarize your knowledge about Korea right there and leave out the rest.
Lol, Korea was under Japanese colonial rule. Japan > Korea.
I tried to drop a hint about unfounded (hint: subjective) statements, but by all means keep them rolling.
http://afe.easia.columbia.edu/main_pop/kpct/kp_koreaimperialism.htm
By all means please dispute the above referenced link which in part covers Japanese rule of Korea. Tell what parts are unfounded and what aren't. Since you are the expert.
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
That historical essence is not found in S. Korea that I know of.
Interesting opinions, lets just summarize your knowledge about Korea right there and leave out the rest.
Lol, Korea was under Japanese colonial rule. Japan > Korea.
I tried to drop a hint about unfounded (hint: subjective) statements, but by all means keep them rolling.
http://afe.easia.columbia.edu/main_pop/kpct/kp_koreaimperialism.htm
By all means please dispute the above referenced link which in part covers Japanese rule of Korea. Tell what parts are unfounded and what aren't. Since you are the expert.
Originally Posted By: CKN
I have a friend who decided on buying a Genesis. He was looking at both BMW and the small Mercedes. He could afford any of the cars, but ended up with the Genesis due to the features. He did say the buying experience was awful. He said it was like buying a car in the 70's. The Hyundai dealers ARE NOT used to dealing with a higher income person.
They are used to payment buyers looking at the Accents and want a payment less than $200.00.
This is one of the issues selling luxury cars next to econo boxes.
This is the problem with selling cars at or above $40k with cars at or below $18-20k.
Sale people at Hyundai used to sell cars to buyers more concern about monthly payment, Buyers of $40-50k or more are more concern about the car than monthly payment, they are either had pre-approved loan before get into dealer floor or paying cash. Also, these upscale buyers want to be treated differently than standard car buyers.
I have a friend who decided on buying a Genesis. He was looking at both BMW and the small Mercedes. He could afford any of the cars, but ended up with the Genesis due to the features. He did say the buying experience was awful. He said it was like buying a car in the 70's. The Hyundai dealers ARE NOT used to dealing with a higher income person.
They are used to payment buyers looking at the Accents and want a payment less than $200.00.
This is one of the issues selling luxury cars next to econo boxes.
This is the problem with selling cars at or above $40k with cars at or below $18-20k.
Sale people at Hyundai used to sell cars to buyers more concern about monthly payment, Buyers of $40-50k or more are more concern about the car than monthly payment, they are either had pre-approved loan before get into dealer floor or paying cash. Also, these upscale buyers want to be treated differently than standard car buyers.
Maybe the upscale buyers need to work in a labor camp for a year to get some reality back in their lives so they don't expect a latte and a financial lap dance when they buy a freaking car.
My understanding is that Hyundai made the conscious decision to not have a luxury brand spinoff versus just marketing the resultant cars to that same upscale demographic. May or may not turn into a wise decision but then again these models aren't produced in high numbers.
From my experience with three local Hyundai dealers, they ( like most dealerships ) vary widely in the brand of sales chimp and finance managers that they employ. The dealership where I bought my car seemed to have dedicated reps to these cars that DID operate in a different manner than the quota chimps. I can assume that this might differ by dealership, region, socioeconomics, and a few other differentiators...but I'm sure the guy selling the used '98 Daihatsu and the 2015 Equus might be the same person at some dealerships.
I bought my car with the expectation that car dealers are mostly trash and to have a commensurate expectation which was ultimately unfounded as this was one of the easiest car buying experience that I can remember. No hyped up "Internet Sales Manager" needing to redo the numbers a fourth time, no finance manager selling me lojack and every coating and electronic prophylactic that they could build into the car, etc.
My understanding is that Hyundai made the conscious decision to not have a luxury brand spinoff versus just marketing the resultant cars to that same upscale demographic. May or may not turn into a wise decision but then again these models aren't produced in high numbers.
From my experience with three local Hyundai dealers, they ( like most dealerships ) vary widely in the brand of sales chimp and finance managers that they employ. The dealership where I bought my car seemed to have dedicated reps to these cars that DID operate in a different manner than the quota chimps. I can assume that this might differ by dealership, region, socioeconomics, and a few other differentiators...but I'm sure the guy selling the used '98 Daihatsu and the 2015 Equus might be the same person at some dealerships.
I bought my car with the expectation that car dealers are mostly trash and to have a commensurate expectation which was ultimately unfounded as this was one of the easiest car buying experience that I can remember. No hyped up "Internet Sales Manager" needing to redo the numbers a fourth time, no finance manager selling me lojack and every coating and electronic prophylactic that they could build into the car, etc.
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
Lol, Korea was under Japanese colonial rule. Japan > Korea.
I tried to drop a hint about unfounded (hint: subjective) statements, but by all means keep them rolling.
http://afe.easia.columbia.edu/main_pop/kpct/kp_koreaimperialism.htm
By all means please dispute the above referenced link which in part covers Japanese rule of Korea. Tell what parts are unfounded and what aren't. Since you are the expert.
Oh heavens, I would never dispute anything you post friend. Please continue.
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
Lol, Korea was under Japanese colonial rule. Japan > Korea.
I tried to drop a hint about unfounded (hint: subjective) statements, but by all means keep them rolling.
http://afe.easia.columbia.edu/main_pop/kpct/kp_koreaimperialism.htm
By all means please dispute the above referenced link which in part covers Japanese rule of Korea. Tell what parts are unfounded and what aren't. Since you are the expert.
Oh heavens, I would never dispute anything you post friend. Please continue.
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