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So then, why are we even worried?
Any reason to choose 5W over 0W oil?
- Thread starter TopPhrenologist
- Start date
0w-40 for diesel isn't that common. If your not in really cold climate there is 0 need for a 0w. There are plenty of 5w that are readily available. I'm sure Fords Spec sheet for 0w is quite short anyways. Even then with the advancements with cold starting on diesel trucks you could easily get away with using a 15w synthetic.
When India finally went to BS 6 mandating dpf/ scr in diesels, Ford moved their oil recommendation for the Endeavour (aka Ranger with a suv body) from 5w30 a5b5 (wss m2c913 c/d) to 0w20 acea c2 (or the ford equivalent spec rather). Never mind about using a 20 weight oil in 100+ in the shade weather that’s routine in India
Moving to a 5w30 c3 or 10w30 / 15w40 ck4 isn’t a bad idea though in this kind of weather
When I said " I'm sure Fords Spec sheet for 0w is quite short anyways." I'm referring to WSS-M2C171-F1 for their Power Stroke Diesel engines found Here. As you see the 0w-40 oils are slim.
But to your point this is not the first time Ford has back spec their oil recommendations. They had 5w-30 on many older vehicles & then said 5w-20 was to be put in going forward. As you stated that hot weather & especially towing in the mix is questionable but did they develop this engine with 20 in mind maybe. I'm sure it gets very hot in parts of India. Thanks for that info!
I mean it is perfectly possible to engineer a robust 5w20 or 0wAnything that will stand up to hot weather and towing. Also perfectly possible that there’s a tooth fairy and that the moon is made of green cheese.
The engine is the standard L5 duratorq 3.2 liter 5 cylinder diesel that’s ubiquitous for non dpf and then the 2.0 ecoblue but unfortunately with just one rather than twin turbos for dpf models
I used Rotella 15w40 in my 93 7.3 International when it was around. I put a cheap (amp appropriate) timer on the outlet that powered the cord of the installed block heater. When it got cold and I wanted the heater to operate, I set the timer to power the heater a couple to a few hours before I started it in the morning. It started perfectly every morning in 3 rotations like it was 40 degrees out even when it was -10. Saved a ton of electricity and was as smooth as silk even with the older Stanadyne Roosa-Master injection pump system. My 2001 Duramax would start in any weather with Rotella 15w40 and the Bosch fuel system and no heater. It was not smooth and was noisy for a while. Was that the best for it? I cant see how it was hind sight. But the reality is the thinner the oil is below zero the better, as it flows quicker thus it protects the wear surfaces better. If we could predict the weather we would be a hero. I have seen -30 In mid New Hampshire region. No joke. As to what oil to use I would guage that on your OCI and factory spec. Take the best advice here and run with it.
I believe the block heater takes out all the possibilities of doubt. Stay with the 5w40 year round
Actually what it does is make for for easier cranking and ensures pumpabity down to the guaranteed temperature. It does't protect the wear surfaces better as such, all oils at low temperatures have sufficient MOFT for wear protection as long as it can be pumped.
I agree however IMO start-up wear = pressure + flow -time. Really the same thing. I really enjoy the project farm videos series on you tube. A few oil related skits shows how slow cold oil flows.
If the oil can be pumped it will flow. Those Project Farm videos are pretty irrelevant in regards to how an engine oiling system works and what actually happens in an engine. You're correct in calling them skits, PF should stick to testing knives and rakes and not motor oil.
Agreed,
Gravity flow is irrelevant in a pressurized oil system. The act of pumping a cold fluid alone creates friction and heat albeit small. If he wanted to even be close to accurate, he'd measure the time it takes for them to pump a certain amount of oil through an an engine oil pump.
What I'm trying to say is IMHO, Viscosity matters when sucking and pushing any fluids. Millisecond matter when protecting and lubricating moving parts. Cold starts (when the oil is below X) equate to a high level of an engines wear. I know what you are saying, Positive displacement pumps vs gravity flow don't equate exactly. However they show the flow differences. I agree Project Farm is not a Exact test of anything he does. But repeated results strongly "suggests" strengths and weaknesses of a product (usually not surprising on some because I've found the same results on my own as well) and for this I appreciate him.
Lets say we agree to disagree on some aspects here and yes we are splitting hairs. Thanks Fellas.
Yeah I've never seen a 0w40 HDEO on the shelf anywhere here in Texas.
0w40 Euro blends for passenger cars, you can get at Walmart. But HDEO is unobtainium.
In my region cars typically face -15C (5F) startups for weeks, -25C (-13F) startups maybe few times per winter, and extremely ralely maybe even that -29C (-20F) and ”everyone” still uses 5W-40 with absolutely zero problems. Block heaters are commonly used and advisable but not mandatory. I pre-heat my engine with 500W block heater as per regional recommendations whenever electricity is available: 30min from 0C to -5C, 1h from -5C to -10C and 2h for
I like to do my annual oil change at autumn as a small optimization (instead of spring) to be sure that my car faces the winter with fresh oil which is in spec. But this could be just typical BITOG OCD, I guess?
Now, if I would face -30C (-22F) startups for a week every year and even -35C (-31F) starups occasionally, I would definitely go for 0W-40. But at -25C (-13F), nah, I don’t think 0W is really needed or critical in any way.
I would instead look at the other specs of the oil, most importantly the approvals, MB229.5, VW507.00, etc. Mobil 1 (almost any grade) typically has all the best approvals. So this or some other premium oil could be a good choise for the best protection for your engine, year-round, depending on how much extra it costs where you live.
But for OP’s original question: No harm (and probably no gain on your temperatures) on using 0W instead 5W. Use whichever makes you sleep well at night and gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling. Saving some bucks or using the best oil, even if it might not be necessary. And as someone already stated, salt and rust might actually be your worst enemy up there...
I like to do my annual oil change at autumn as a small optimization (instead of spring) to be sure that my car faces the winter with fresh oil which is in spec. But this could be just typical BITOG OCD, I guess?
Now, if I would face -30C (-22F) startups for a week every year and even -35C (-31F) starups occasionally, I would definitely go for 0W-40. But at -25C (-13F), nah, I don’t think 0W is really needed or critical in any way.
I would instead look at the other specs of the oil, most importantly the approvals, MB229.5, VW507.00, etc. Mobil 1 (almost any grade) typically has all the best approvals. So this or some other premium oil could be a good choise for the best protection for your engine, year-round, depending on how much extra it costs where you live.
But for OP’s original question: No harm (and probably no gain on your temperatures) on using 0W instead 5W. Use whichever makes you sleep well at night and gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling. Saving some bucks or using the best oil, even if it might not be necessary. And as someone already stated, salt and rust might actually be your worst enemy up there...
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My daughters 21' Mazda specs 0w20 year round. I have used 5w20 (full synthetics like QS and PP) a couple of times in the warmer months simply because I have them from sales, clearances etc...I'm pretty sure there would be no issue using them year round where I live where single digit Fahrenheit is as low as it gets but I use the 0w20 I have during colder months. If I lived in a warmer climate like Florida I'd probably prefer 5w20 full synthetic over 0w20.
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If all you get is shear, it'll behave like a 0W-30. But you also get contaminant loading, if it's a diesel you can get fuel dilution with a fuel that gells around 30F and those things will drive up the winter rating After a while you also get oxidative thickening, and you end up with an SAE60
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Unless you're at -10°C, no difference either way.
Not going to comment on the oil to use, but as a person who lives in a cold climate. We can easily get down to -50 here in winter, but even at -10, -20, -30, the block heater does almost nothing to warm your engine oil.
Crawl under a vehicle on a cold morning, block heater has been plugged in for 12 hours, and put your hand on the bottom of the oil pan.
Its basically the same temperature as it would be without any block heater. So while you have warmed the coolant some, it doesn't help warm the oil to make it pump quicker on initial start up.
If concerned about it, oil pan heaters are a common item here. My F150, girlfriend's Ram 1500, and my Western Star logging truck, all have oil pan heaters, along with the block heater. Warming up the oil makes a noticeably larger difference on a cold climate morning start, than does the block heater. Thankfully I have both, but if forced to choose between them, I would keep the oil heater.
Crawl under a vehicle on a cold morning, block heater has been plugged in for 12 hours, and put your hand on the bottom of the oil pan.
Its basically the same temperature as it would be without any block heater. So while you have warmed the coolant some, it doesn't help warm the oil to make it pump quicker on initial start up.
If concerned about it, oil pan heaters are a common item here. My F150, girlfriend's Ram 1500, and my Western Star logging truck, all have oil pan heaters, along with the block heater. Warming up the oil makes a noticeably larger difference on a cold climate morning start, than does the block heater. Thankfully I have both, but if forced to choose between them, I would keep the oil heater.